AH acting crazy on our daughter's birthday - Al-Anon Family Group

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

AH acting crazy on our daughter's birthday

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

Hon, I'll wade in here and somebody better at all of this will come along soon.

He acts like that because his brain has been damaged by alcohol and an alcoholic can act that way (even when he is having a dry drunk--this I know from experience). They project blame to get the focus off of them and they lie and manipulate. That is what alcoholism does when it gets hold of people sometimes. Think of him as being taken over by zombies, perhaps. He is not in his right mind. He is crazy, in a way. He is brain damaged, He's somewhat like somebody with a psychosis or Alzheimers. Does this begin to shed some light?

As for why it is you wind up feeling bad? I would guess because you have been bullied and kept off balance and manipulated and gas-lighted. Does any of this resonate? Can I think of other ways to say it? Brain-washed? What do the other side do when we are fighting wars? They capture our soldiers when they can and to break them down, they keep the lights on all night. And they deprive them of enough food and water. And they keep them off-balance. They never know when they will be fed. Whether the guard who comes in is going to be nice or beat them. Whether their heads will be held under water. They lie to them. They tell them that everything they know and believe to be true is all a lie. They hammer this into the ears of the prisoner. Does any of this feel familiar, although perhaps on a more subtle scale? (I am sorry to say our side has used some of these tactics as well, and that's for another day. Suffice to say I do not agree with it.)

And after awhile they break the will of the prisoner and they can get him to sign whatever they like or tell secrets he's sworn to keep--to betray himself or his country.

Stockholm syndrome--over time, a kidnapping victim will often begin to identify with his or her jailor.

And why is all of that done? For control. I Googled Verbal Abuse the other day and got a lot of information. And it made me angry. Just being around somebody who makes an irrational statement rattles me. The systematic tearing down of reality really sends me around the bend.

So, you are contending with a person not in his right mind who is treating you like the enemy. And it is working pretty good sometimes. And I hope you can take your power back. Because you are worth so much more than that.

Hugs,
Temple

-- Edited by Temple on Saturday 27th of September 2014 07:27:46 PM

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

Wow Temple. You hit the nail on the head. I am starting to question my own sanity and side with my jailor. I know for a fact I am a pretty "normal" easygoing person with a decent brain. But when stuff like this happens I question myself.

Thanks for the analogy...yes it resonated well.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I also love temple's response. An A will seek out a person with a caring nature and consciously or unconsciously turn that caring into sick codependency that is so hard to break out of. This is what a long relationship with an A does to you. It damages your mind, body, and spirit too. It's OK though because you have alanon. You can and will heal.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

You can't take care of his feelings and yourself at the same time. I'm glad your daughter understands. I do think this has got to be crazy making for her, too? Practicing JADE with him is a suggestion. There is no need to justify, argue, defend or explain yourself to him. He's going to think and feel and say whatever comes to his mind. He's sick. Very sick. He is not reasonable. He is not rational. He is not someone you can have any kind of conversation with that will end up with you feeling good. This is your experience of him. It isn't going to change. It is probably going to get worse. Engaging or spending time with him will continue to hurt you. He isn't going to stop doing what he is doing or saying. He can't. He's sick. He isn't going for help. It isn't personal. He's sick. In AA they suggest ninety visits in 90 days. That might help you, too. Face to face and on-line are possible for you and can make a world of difference in you and for you.

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

Thx grateful. I am also reading a book called "let go now. Embracing detachment" by Karen Casey. It helps me so much to learn how to detach and also take care of myself.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Ok if I told you to go to a mental institution and pick out one person.

then put you in a room. This person began talking crazy, you tried to engage in a normal way. Would you wonder what was wrong with YOU?

Your A is not sane. He literally pickles his brain with a substance that is poison to him. If I put a brain in a vat of alcohol for a day or two what do you think it would do to it?

This is what makes A's so sick and insane. Their whole body is a pickling vat!!! I can see why most people don't get that as most people don't even know where their liver is. I am into medicine big time, anatomy, how things work. I remember seeing how our liver works and was so amazed A's lived as long as they do! Our bodies are like the inside of a clock everything fits together, everything.

Part of what makes you sick is the frustration of trying to figure out the A! YOU cannot. Its like throwing up a watermelon and when it falls you try to pick it up and put it back together, believing you can and what is wrong with me that I cannot?

Listen if your A was able to be sane, he would get a job, fix up the home, clean it up.pay the bills have vehicles ready,money in the bank, etc then say honey I have all this to offer you.

My AH did this. Sadly I was ignorant to addiction, thought I could handcuff him too me if he relapsed. seriously I did.

Anyway this is part of your recovery, you are having to be beat up enough to really KNOW and Believe it is time for you to move on. and be able to do it. I have seen you say now more than once, you have had enough. Its sad but it is healthy, becuz when you leave I mean really leave, you will know you tried everything to make it right with him.

Hugs!!! glad to see you here so much too, good progress honey

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks Debilyn. The watermelon analogy was funny. I get it. Even though he isn't drinking, the alcohol has done a lot of damage.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Temple, I love your reply here. That is so true and I relate well to this. Its a power thing right enough. Alanon taught me to take back my power.

The difference between prisoners and us affected by alcoholism is we have choices and we can play this role too. We are not complete victims. Yes, alcoholics will treat us badly, manipulate, control, game play etc. Thats what the disease is really. Not a lot we can do about that, its not ours to fix.

To me, its about looking within, what is it about me that allows this, enters into this time and time again, what am I gaining? I learned that I was gaining from playing this role. I dint have to take responsibility for my own life, I got to be the poor one who was treated badly while always behaving well. I was the martyr. My own part in the whole relationship belongs to me and the good news is, thats the part that can be changed, relatively quickly.

Attending meetings like they are the most important thing In the world for our survival, getting the mind wide open. At least being able to consider for a moment that you have been affected in these ways means you are half way there. Denying your part completely is full denial and will keep you trapped on that merrygoround.

As long as you see him as the bad one and yourself as the victim of the bad one, he has your power and you are giving it to him. Its a mind thing more than a fact thing. What he does and how you take it are seperate. Your mind is yours and allowing an alcoholic to pull the strings and be in charge of your feelings is madness.

it sounds like im saying its all your fault, im not, im saying you are responsible for allowing it and taking it in to your mind. Your life is yours to run and say what goes and what doesnt. Your mind is yours to say what gets in and what doesnt. Im sharing with you something I hold very valuable, these lessons saved my life, I hope you can hear me and if not it may click with someone out there so my esh is worth something. You have the choice to take what you like and leave the rest.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Yeah, it's is a liberation from codependency when you redefine the A as "the sick one" instead of the "bad one" and just basically adopt the attitude of "whatever...crazy jerk..." and then detach from the nonsense. If it's REALLY hurtful it may merit a "Screw you jerk! Don't talk to me" and create distance. Obviously these are provocative words and it probably would not be best to say them out loud (or maybe it would) to the A, but most importantly its about your internal dialog. He can't hurt you when you take that power away from him.

If you had already done this, the response would be more like "Whatever. You said you didn't want to come earlier. Have your own party for her on your time and don't invite me if you are that upset. Next time be more clear. Bye." And then you really would not care if he carried on like a hurt child. Also he might stop because he would see you don't care. He will amp it up for a while probably with "I'm so sad...You have wounded me to the core!! blah blah blah" and then you can calmly say "Hrm. Sounds like stuff to work on with your sponsor or talk about in an AA meeting or a therapist. Bye." And the "Bye" part is crucial because you are getting constant invitations to argue and you do not need to accept them. It will be difficult to tell yourself or him "I don't care to argue" because right now it sounds like you do care to argue.

It's getting to the not caring part that is so hard. THAT requires a lot of awareness and work on codependency.

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

What everybody said--

I needed to hear it. I am so grateful that you are all willing to keep repeating the same wisdom over and over and over. It begins to seep in through the cracks.

You there with the recovery--you are modeling patience and responsibility every time you log in.

I am so blessed. And I am blessed every time somebody new or going through a crisis cries out for help, cause we all share in the help that is given.

Temple

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

I am getting a lot better at shutting down the debate with him. I can debate forever,but I realize it's hurting me more and more. It's a useless battle. So I responded a few times in texts yesterday, a few times in person and quickly walked away when it was getting worse. Then I blocked his number from my phone. I will decide when my daughter can call him. I will be ignoring him.
When I defend myself, he always has an argument back at me or gives in and sarcastically says "You're right".

I reminded him he said it was ok he didn't have to go to the party...but as usual he says I read into his words or twist them or some crazy crap like that.

As far as allowing him to do this to me, I am not inviting it. I am just going about my day when crazy stuff happens. I guess I allow it if I keep engaging him after he acts like this...so like I said I have been shutting it down quicker and quicker.

And sometimes elcee, I find the meetings I go to can make me depressed. I am looking into different ones. I read al anon books and other codependency books that help me a lot. I am also going to a new church and a divorce support group.

-- Edited by Newlife girl on Sunday 28th of September 2014 09:38:09 AM

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

I really go to I don't have to respond to crazy and if crazy is what I'm getting then I don't need to go there. I know it's really hard with the kids and knowing the balance. Years ago (I can say that now because it's true .. LOL) I tried to get him to do the whole why don't we go in for two big gifts together and split the cost (the kids birthdays are 3 days apart). He wasn't having it at all. I immediately stopped asking anything along that lines and the kids would just have a list ready and let him decide what he was going to do. We did 1/2 at Easter this year and that was nice. At the same time I did the work on it bought the gifts, hid the eggs and so on. The kids aren't interested in holidays with him really. It's just not any fun.

Anyway, you did fine .. it's so hard not to get pulled into the insanity of it all. Especially when the verbal vomit starts .. it's just better to go radio silent and only communicate when absolutely necessary.

I like the ESH and I sooo needed to read this I look forward to my mess being done. I figure once we are divorced he won't have anything to do with the kids it will be just a bi-product of collateral damage.

Hugs S :)

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

NLG, just to clarify...I do not think you are "inviting" any of this. HE is inviting you to argue and partake in the insanity. Your job is to decline the invitations as you already stated you are getting better at. If the invitations become to crazy or frequent...avoidance may be the best method for dealing with him.

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

Ok, I love what Mark said, "Whatever...crazy jerk....". That is now my response on a regular basis. Obviously, I say this in my head. In real life I do what you do: I come here to vent, I call my sponsor, I read my Al Anon literature or get my seat in a meeting if I can.

Remember my post last week about how my AH is willing to miss his son's 16th birthday party just because my mom is coming to town and he thinks that she views him as the 'bad guy' and how he doesn't want his presence to ruin her vacation? I do not protest anymore, I do not beg and plead and tell him he's missing out, I do not talk him into staying, I do not even try to convince him otherwise. He's sick and I have to learn to live and let live.

There may come a time when you get to where I'm at and you just don't respond to the texts at all or you respond but in a way that honors you and your own boundaries. One of my boundaries these days is, "I will NOT argue with crazy!" I don't care if it's my AH or my neighbor or a friend who's manipulative. I just won't. It damages my serenity, it makes me say things that I know I'll regret, and quite frankly, the pay off isn't that good even if I do win the argument. My sponsor has truly taught me the value of saying 'how important is it?' The other thing she's hammered into my brain is that as long as I know the truth, why do I have to beat anyone else over the head with it? If it's true, it's true, I don't have to prove it to anyone and that's where JADE comes in.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

NLG: What if the meetings are actually helping you recognize that you are feeling depressed and if you stay with them, you'll be better able to help yourself detach from the insanity of his disease and find help and hope for yourself that can help you work through the depression to acceptance and new life. I know you are reading books and attending a divorce support group and will be looking for another meeting in your area. My experience in living with or loving an A is that those things in and of themselves won't help me with the ways I've been affected by or participate in the insanity of the disease. One of my defects has been wanting to "heal myself" by myself and that has never really worked. There are also times when I experience something in meetings that isn't to my liking and that is some of what going to meetings has helped me face and work through in me. It isn't really about the meeting or the people in it when I'm noticing I feel worse when I leave rather than better. It's about something in me that I need help to face with the help of a sponsor or another fellowship member that I know walks the walk and doesn't just talk the talk. I do hope that you will go to meetings consistently where you can find a sponsor and build relationships to other people who will be a godsend to you in matters such as these. MIP is a helpful supplement but it is not Al-Anon and we can't learn the principles of the program without the meetings. Whatever you choose to do is up to you, of course; yet, based on my own experience, I don't think you'll be sorry if you keep attending face to face meetings consistently.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.