right or wrong? - Al-Anon Family Group

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

right or wrong?

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

He can get all the ideas he wants about your generous offer, el cee. What if you think about this dinner only and see how it goes? No matter what he thinks, you are powerless over it unless you contribute to the wrong idea in some way and I don't think you will. Each dinner and time in between is what would be my plan for dinner at your home with him with the kids present. That way, there is less set up for something you'll want to back out of later. One day at a time can apply to dinner, too.

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

I think if you do it once and then find you feel uncomfortable then you can discontinue it?
My ex and i have recently become 'friendly" (he instigated this by asking me to coffee and asking if we could bury the hatchet and be friends for our daughter's sake) and it's nice. This is after 10 years of hating each other and zero communication. I'm finding the friendship is still there; he still makes me laugh in the same ways and he understands certain things, it's nice to have him as a friend again but I am also not in the slightest attracted to him now and it was good to find that out as well. I feel good about being friends with him and I'm sure my daughter does too. Also I went for lunch with my friend the other day and her ex-husband was there, they are friends. It's nice, if both parties are willing, I think. When my ex and I were laughing over how messed up we used to be, it felt nice, like we were celebrating the fact that we had finally grown up together. I think it can be a very positive thing as long as you are honest with yourself and look out for red flags like fantasy thinking and stuff. You're not silly, you'll know if it isn't right!!

cloudyskies · ~*Service Worker*~

el-cee I think if you make your intentions clear, he should not misinterpret your actions. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer for this. You need to do what feels right for you. I know a lot of divorce folks who have moved into the friendship category. It took them a lot of time to get over the hurt, but once they did, they seemed to be very close friends. It's good that you both found humor in your passed relationship. I think he should be thanking his HP that he has his kids and you to lean on right now. smile

Luiza · Senior Member

I think you are doing the right thing. I think I would do the same. This is what STBXAH and I will try to do. Be there for each other in case we need.
Keep your boundaries firm in place. Let us know how the dinner goes.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

LC i THINK THAT YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING. REMEMBER THAT WE MUST KEEP THE FOCUS ON OURSLVES AND NOT ABANDON OUR NEEDS AS WE CARE FOR OTHERS. I THINK YOUR PROGRAM IS SOLID AND YOU KNOW HOW TO BE KIND, AND COMPAASIONATE,WITHOUT LOOSING YOURSELF.

GOOD JOB MY FRIEND.

Debb · ~*Service Worker*~

El-cee, I agree with everyone, it is a very compassionate lead you have taken for the sake of your children as well!! If your ex misinterprets your kindness then you will just have to set the record straight!!

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

You might want to call the dept of human services and ask about meals on wheels. Also there are tons of good frozen dinners now he can just stick in microwave

If you wanted to you could make him prepared meals for freezer or even a big thing of yummy stew he can nuke up.

Even sandwiches will stay good a long time. At most sports stores they have freeze dried food. You just add hot water and most are delicious. I found a great water bottle that keeps ice for four days! Also will keep things hot for a long time too!

Its up to you to know if it bugs you. A's don't think like we do. We have no control over it of course. Myself I would be more prone to get him prepared food.

I have had lots of surgeries and illness but always plan ahead and take care of myself.

your kids are doing well! Must make you so proud! (c:

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't know where you live, but from the mention of ready meals it sounds like the UK. If that's the case, ready meals are a godsend and so much more convenient and healthier than anything we have in the U.S. Letting your ex depend on ready meals sounds as if he'll be well taken care of. I can see that inviting him to dinner is causing some anxiety, and that could be a warning sign. We're so used to being caretakers that we tend to dive right back into that role even when it's not good for us. It may be that you're right to keep your distance. Keep tabs on the situation and your feelings. I'd say that you don't have any reason to do anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. He has a good source of food available. I'd be happy to live for months on ready meals (and have!).

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Mattie, your so right. I was feeling uncomfortable because I saw some of the poor mes again and I entered in to it. Im seeing the light today. Yesterday was a weird day, I had a dream about him and it got me thinking about him and my hp was telling me dont phone him while you feel like this but I did, so I heard exactly what you would expect really. Well, ive opened my big mouth now so hes coming for dinner today but I will not offer for every sunday, thankfully I never said that to him. I might phone him occasionally, maybe even send a wee tub to him now and then but yes he had me in the palm of his hands for years and I didnt even know it so il keep it light and very occasional, no routine stuff thats dangerous.
Thank you everyone for your feedback, very much appreciated.

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

We all have that caring feeling and want to help when a person is down. It's just that fine line we need to keep in check now so it doesn't get out of hand and we are right back into the madness. Just be honest with him how you feel and he will either take it for what it is or go his own way without you having to worry about it. Keep the focus on you but continue with kindness with others.

((( hugs )))

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

Yes,

He might get to liking it so much he'll break his other foot. (I forget what brought him to this pass.)

Thank you, El-Cee. It is so good to see a veteran still working through the process when somerthing comes up.

And I love all the responses. Here's everybody's take and then it comes back to your listening to your feelings/your HP. Beautiful.

Temple

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't think one meal will hurt, el cee, and I'm very, very glad that you didn't tell him until he was better. Even if you had, you could make an amend and tell him what is true for you in simple terms. You and I are different people, but I don't care how much I like, love or care about another, I would not want to cook for anybody regularly. I've done that and there are other things I want to do. I don't want to cement myself into doing anything regularly for anybody because I want to be free to do what I intuit is my next action step in life. Being chief cook and bottle washer are two hats I retired. Maybe you've done that, too? And you're ready for something else?

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Elcee, no harm done in any act thus far. Trust your gut, work your strong program, talk to HP, talk to us and all will be well aww

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

We had dinner and it went ok. I warned him I dont want to hear any criticism about my cooking. He said your the reason I dont eat mashed potatoes. I should have said your the reason I dont date. Lol. Alas, I wasnt quite quick enough at the time. So, that was that. A bit weird and out the blue, not sure why I felt the need but I dont anymore, its passed.x

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Tit for tat doesn't die easy. I'm glad dinner went okay and I have to say that I am one of the few Mothers whose kids don't have a whole lot of favorites I used to cook. Ahhhhhh, one can't have all the gifts.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I know your right, im very defensive with him. He mentioned that the milk was almost finished, right away im thinking, how dare you suggest that I would run out of milk. I said, no, no I dont run out of milk and quickly produced a new one. Lol. Seriously, he brings out my madness him. What is wrong with me with this guy? Hes so negative and he likes to see your mistakes, well thats what I think. Im so touchy with him. Im like, you dare try putting me down, because I dont put up with that crap anymore. Honestly, my hackles were up.
Me too grateful , my girl likes my cooking, my son, no way. He just wont eat it. Oh well, cant please all the people all the time.x

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Okay - this is my thinking on what you've written and it's Catherine - not necessarily Al-Anon: If I am invited into somebody else's home for dinner and we've been in a holding pattern for two years - the first thing I am going to do is compliment the cook, the home, the care I've been shown. The last thing I'm going to do is criticize, bring up stuff I know the other will react to because I've known them a long time, or point out what they might be missing. I am not someone who thrives with another who is a downstroker and that is me. Guess who wouldn't be coming to dinner again at my table even if they have two broken arms and two broken legs. I might send a casserole - Shepherd's Pie could be a suggestion biggrin - but they will not be sitting at my table in my home eating the food I've prepared again. I might not totally stop caring and do something kind when they are laid up or elderly or out of food and I won't put myself into their presence because we just won't work.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 30th of September 2014 03:11:10 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 30th of September 2014 03:18:13 PM

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Lol, I hear you. He doesnt know me, not the real me that I am today. He knew me when I was full, of shame and guilt and a chronic people pleaser who didnt know her own mind. He got away with his sarcasm and passive aggressive digs because I wanted to keep the peace. Thats not me now. Im tough, self sufficient, comfortable in my own skin and I dont need his approval the way I used to. Well, thats what I thought until he came to dinner and yes he does trigger the old behaviours. Hes like a witch that knows the right word or tone and hey presto hes pushed a long forgotten button. Im alergic to him, I forgot that.

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

lol el-cee, I am the same and it is madness and something I feel really uncomfortable with now. It seems to me he gloats and rubs his hands together with glee anytime he finds something to criticise and I over-react to it every time if I'm not diligent about being detached. I don't experience that defensiveness with many people, really it's just A and my mother and her sister that I am so defensive with so I think it isn't entirely my own defect, I think there is an instinct some unhappy people have to always push at people and try to spark a reaction even if they aren't conscious of the fact that they are doing it.
Good on you for getting through it. I would struggle to cook a meal for my ex and have a smile on my face. But then, hurling the cooked dinners at the wall was a favourite past-time between the two of us so, sitting down to a meal might be novel, lol. I'm glad it went ok and you are feeling alright about it.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't care who takes a dig at me, I can feel it and I used to try to ignore it. Now I see it as a signal that something doesn't sit well with me and it is my job to own it and make a change that benefits me. One of the things I learned is that emotionally abusive people swipe at what they know is a softspot in another and then say something like "don't take it personally" or "can't you take a joke," "or don't be such a crybaby, you're too sensitive, don't wear your feelings on your sleeve, etc." A joke is one thing. Being purposely stung is another. If a bee stings me, I'm going to feel that sting and move away from it. If a person stings me, I'll do the same if we've had a conversation about it previously. They can no longer say they didn't know it hurts and now they're doing it purposely and with knowledge that they are doing it. That's passive aggressive behavior and it is damaging if we allow it. Some of us are heart people and there are those who aren't heart people who enjoy hurting others for no other reason than they can. I am not going to change the fact that I am a heart person and I can change who I allow near me. I have friends who have been happily married for years and years. Not one of them takes a swipe at the other in the presence of onlookers. Based on the chemistry that is between them (3 couples are in their 80s), it doesn't happen when they are alone either. I won't allow others to sting me and then look for what's wrong with me. If others sting me, they are bees.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 30th of September 2014 03:27:57 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 30th of September 2014 06:06:50 PM

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

Elcee I understand about cooking. I am very sensitive about cooking. I have bad memories from dinner issues with my first husband. I can't take criticism about my food at all. So, even though I usually can't afford it, we would eat out a lot. My current husband would rather spend the money...which he doesn't have...to eat out than wash dishes after a meal. It was always a battle with us. I was always trying to explain that eating at home was cheaper. Ugh.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Yes, he likes a reaction, its very clever really, cunning. I think it is about power. He feels better when I am beneath him or less than him in his mind. I dont know but hes good at it. I play a part though because I react, me getting defensive is giving him my power. I forgot jade. I think the dinner thing is too costly.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

I do hear you LC ,maybe getting "take out" and sharing it at his place would be a better alternative

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Reading the way he chooses to interact with you is probably the way he also interacts with others. It is a set up for being rejected to my way of thinking. When you consider your friends, do they avoid your soft spots or do they dig at them? My true friends don't walk on eggshells with me and they are also well aware of what works with me and what doesn't work with me and care about it. I am the same with people who are my friends. If I know that they are sensitive about their cooking skills or lack thereof, I'm not going to sit at their table looking for ways to trigger their defenses. It isn't my job to help them "toughen up." It is my job to accept them as they are. If they laugh at their own lack of cooking skill or dancing skill or whatever other skill they are sensitive about - then to me - they are inviting me in to enjoy their acceptance of this part of themselves but it won't be me who initiates it. I can't do that with every person I meet because I don't know enough about a stranger or an acquaintance to know what their soft spots are until they tell me or show me. But, with my friends or family members I do know and I'd prefer to build them up than tear them down. Healthy people do encourage each other. They don't nail each other.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 30th of September 2014 04:24:21 PM

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Elcee, sometimes we need reminders about who and what to avoid. Of course you were hurt, I would have been hurt, too. You are doing great.

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

You know he sounds like my exAH, my girls went to see their dad this Summer for 2 weeks and he asked that I send them with enough food to cover them, haha. Well I did and sent a few of his favorites as well and things that my 16 year old likes to cook for dinner, which was okay with me, because I didn't have to see him in person or deal with him. After they got home and told me how it went, well they haven't gone back since which is sad but their decision, we leave it up to them and they are seeing his sickness progress as it does. I feel sad and compassion for him, but from a distance, because I know that I have old cycles with him and he knows how to trigger me also and I do not want to be triggered or set back anymore. It is so hard to be a caring loving person with A's, but for me detachment is the only way I can stay healthy and not get sucked in. I think you know how to read your red flags and have great awareness with what is going on. Sending you much love and support on your journey!

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks everyone, you know its not really about the cooking or food, not really. Its just our dysfunctional relationship sitting waiting to pick up again. I dont want a relationship with him, hes not good for me and im not good for him. The most I will do is the odd call to see if hes ok and a tub of food sent round once in a while maybe. He can like it or lump it, I dont care too much.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Love it, el cee. One of my codependency issues has been to stay in relationships with basement people who tear me down rather than build me up. Part of that staying I'm sure started in childhood and is one of my defaults. Because I have also been in relationship to attic people who build me up and don't tear me down (or care enough about me and our relationship to talk directly with me about an issue), I have gotten better at recognizing I don't like the way I'm being treated and move away quicker from a basement person. I'm not going to change that person no matter what I do or don't do. I can change my proximity to them which gives me more energy for being with honest people who appreciate and cherish me and me them. I like to hang out with butterflies and not bees. It appears you do, too.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

I love the analogies of basement and attic people....ooooh a good one smile

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

Wonderful sharing on this thread, everyone!!! The comments about food, though, got me remembering things my AH used to say to me to push my buttons. I remember when (we were in the middle of arguing and I was in the kitchen cooking) he said, "Your chicken is always too moist!" Yep, well, pardon me for cooking chicken properly, you'll have to let me know ahead of time that you like yours dried out and brittle next time. UGH! I can do that, too, you know!

And, yes, El Cee, like you said: it's not about the food or the cooking; it's about the dysfunction between the two of you. Sending you hugs and support today!!

Katy · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear el-cee, I soooooooooooo understand where you are coming from on this one, my leaving my own situation and then returning and I feel I have become sicker quicker and I am so many feelings, anger frustration sadness, shame , stupidity, when I was living away from the insanity I was thriving I was heavy hearted but nothing like the feelings I am having again now, I can see no end to this for my marriage because once I am back in the fold it's back to the same old same old, I would like to think I am a lot wiser than of late and truly with my hand on my heart I have been trying soooooooo hard but I have changed now and I know my husbands button pressing and cynical sarcasm grates on me, I like to think I am an heart person, I would rather build someone up than knock them down, I don't know waht to do with myself at the moment again it gets me as low as a rattle snakes belly.

some fabulous respsonces though

love

Katy

x

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

El-cee- I think your offer is beautiful; it's about you and no one else- so it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Stay grounded and true to yourself and know that many choices are available on your side of the street- you also have a choice to opt out of returning to a well-worn road of dysfunction. (((Hugs)))

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.