Manipulation - Al-Anon Family Group

Luiza · Senior Member

Manipulation

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

It is complicated, Luiza. For me, I try and keep things simple by focusing on me, otherwise I could go skipping along and letting my flitting mind take me to places I have no business being. Always, take care of you and your daughter and know that crazyland is one baby step away. They can be master manipulators and we can be easy prey.

Luiza · Senior Member

Thanks PP.
I guess I am surprised because I read people here talking about A's manipulation a lot and I just caught a glimpse of how manipulative he could be only a few weeks ago when we were on holidays. But today he took it to a whole new level. It is like he has a split personality. NO ONE seeing him today, right now, would believe the hell he put me through from Monday until yesterday night.
But I know, that tomorrow everything can change in a split second.

-- Edited by Luiza on Friday 12th of September 2014 04:28:31 PM

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Anybody can wear a mask for a day or two or three. Regardless of what your MIL sees or experiences of him while he is there, you know what it is like to be his wife. I've noticed that validation for my thoughts and feelings and experiences must come from me first. Others will see what they want or need to see. Although it would be nice to have the validation of his mother, she is an untreated codependent and - speaking as an untreated codependent at one time - blind in a lot of ways to what is occurring to or with her son. Denial is a shock absorber for many people and awareness, acceptance and guided action takes time for all people involved in a family affected by alcoholism. If he is being pleasant today, enjoying yourself with him, your daughter and your MIL just for today and letting the past and future go for now might help you live your life on life's terms and accept that you are as powerless over what your MIL thinks, feels and experiences as you are over her son? In my own marriage, although I lived with an abusive A, his family was in thick denial. Trying to gain their support was impossible for me and my kids and I never even attempted it. I knew their son was very sick. I knew that they weren't going to be able to have any more influence on him than I did or my kids did. I also knew that it was better to use my energy to take as good of care of myself and my kids as I could and to keep to myself the reality of my experiences with him. They wouldn't have believed me because they would have been blaming themselves for his behaviors when it was the disease of alcoholism and mental illness that caused his problems more than it was them. His Mom will see what she needs to see when she can see it if ever. Until that time, trust what you know about your own experience of him and don't let anyone try to guilt you for his sickness. Let them fault the disease but not you.

Luiza · Senior Member

Thanks grateful.

His mum actually always told me he used to be worse before meeting me, but she is ignorant (as I was one day) regarding alcoholism. She also has experience as his mother, not as his wife.
I can sense she is polite but acting different towards me. Doesn't really bother me, just make me wonder if she was being two faced to me all this time, or she is juts trying to be careful between the two of us.
I will focus on myself.

-- Edited by Luiza on Friday 12th of September 2014 04:29:38 PM

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

If it were me, I'd be attempting to remain neutral because I don't know the whole story and it is my son and my grandchild's mother. The difficult thing for me in any relationship that is ending is trying to keep from taking sides since I know that it takes two to make a marriage and it takes two to end the marriage. My loyalty would of course begin with my son who is a part of me and yet I've lived long enough to know that nobody is the "bad guy" in the marriage. Its just two people trying to do the best they can with what they have to work with at the time. Not only do the two marriage partners suffer losses, the parents and grandparents do, too. There is a lot of grieving that takes place for all involved when a marriage is ending. Add alcoholism to the mix and there is even more to grieve for all concerned.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 12th of September 2014 02:34:44 PM

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

I bet you could imitate the A for a day or two.

For him remember they are manipulators, its part of the disease. They are masters at it. Look at all the actors that are addicts!!!

It's not our job to share with family unless we want to. If you need to, hey I bet your phone has a video camera on it. Just a few min of the boloney, you don't have to explain anything.

I am sorry its so rough! hugs

-- Edited by Debilyn on Friday 12th of September 2014 11:21:29 PM

Lyne · ~*Service Worker*~

I loved your question, why? Indeed, why? When life could be so smooth, easy, enjoyable? When there could be trust, respect, and a happy environment? The why has a very long answer, but I think the short version is that when an A comes right down to his or her priority, it is their needs, and their addiction, that comes first. Logic and rational thinking fly out the window. It is a disease that needs
treatment. Without my spouse getting treatment, I am trying to have NO expectations. That alone helps me much of the time. Lyne

Luiza · Senior Member

He needs her help and support because he is actually a manchild who finds it really challenging to think and make a decision for himself.
His mum used to provide a brain service for him and I took over the role, but now that I'm getting out of the way, he needs someone else.

They keep whispering behind my back and locking themselves in the balcony talking.
I always noticed she loves being involved in drama, so the whole situation might be very exciting for her, despite the pain.

He has had a few beers already and the mask won't stay on for very long if he carries on.
He was reading the joint tenancy agreement and left it on the bed, I asked him if he had finished with it so I could keep it safe where it belongs, he asked why? I said because it's a legal and original document, I don't want it to be misplaced and I need it for next week as I'm going to get advice in the housing services. He then said he is going to get advice too as he wants to stay put and probably I will be the one who needs to move...(but yesterday he told me he would leave). So I told him to make up his mind because if he wants to stay, I will move asap and take my name off the tenancy. He then told me he would decide when he wants, could take months or even years!!! and he won't be manipulated and told what to do anymore.....but the reality is, he never wanted to make any decision and was very happy in letting me be responsible for everything. Now he pretends he was being manipulated.

And I know I shouldn't, but I'm surprised and a little hurt by his mum's behavior. I thought she would act more as a mediator but now I realise I would be asking too much.
She sided with him, probably even creating plans for him, potentially creating unnecessary pain for her granddaughter and believing I'm the villain.

More fool me for listening to her when she said she would always be there for me and she would treat me like her own daughter since my mum and rest of the family are on the other side of the world. Yeah, right.

And this is a woman who used to lock herself in the wardrobe when her own children were small, for fear of her drunk husband coming home.

I guess I just have to keep strong, trust my HP, and keep my side of the streat clean.

I will leave themselves to it.

-- Edited by Luiza on Friday 12th of September 2014 04:35:09 PM

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Luiza: I see a lot of mind reading here that I have done myself in relationship to other people. We can't know what goes on in somebody else's mind and heart. What we are thinking is our business. What they are thinking is their business. If I withdraw my mind from weaving stories about how the other person is thinking (and it is definitely a defect that I have not yet been totally freed of yet), I experience immediate relief and peace. A spouse's parent - to my knowledge - can't be a mediator because they are too emotionally involved. I'm glad you've dropped that expectation as it, too, can be a stressful and frustrating exercise in futility. I'm sorry she isn't behaving in a way that helps you feel supported.

Luiza · Senior Member

Thank you all.

I just think since I am here at home and can stay with daughter, they could have gone for a walk, or coffee shop, or pub, whatever. They could have arranged to meet somewhere before coming here. Whispering behind my back and locking themselves in the balcony is SO rude...but never mind, I am glad I am managing to behave decently (would probably behave badly without Al-Anon I must admit) and I will be out of the clan sooner or later and will be FREE!!!

Thanking my HP for the opportunity to grow, learn and work towards a more balanced life. I no longer feel anger! It is so good not to be angry.

I am off to my bed in daughter's bedroom now, do my reading and sleep as I have a busy day at my course tomorrow.
And my new job is going great btw. Thanks MIP and HP.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

That's working it, Luiza: Changing what you can - your own attitude, staying pleasant, letting them be and do who and what they will - stress relieving for you. Going to spend time with your daughter, reading and preparing for course work tomorrow - good example of going on with your own life. Glad your job is going great! Sleep well. You're doing well. (((L)))

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 12th of September 2014 05:09:53 PM

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Al Anon teaches us, it is about us not them.

So what makes us base our decisions on them. They are not even sane.

It's sad they would be so selfish as to say we are the ones who have to leave. Sadly that is the A. It is never their fault.

So in saying that, I would hope if we are planning on separating, to start packing and look for a new home. Start sticking money away, take half or more of the accounts if they do not work.

It is never easy, but i have seen people blossom from growing into their own lives with out the A disease. Making their own home the way they want it. Even the smallest apartment can be made into something very special.

I invite you to think of YOU, what you want, you don't even have to think about him or what he says. Its not about him, it's about you now. a whole new concept.

Hugs!

Kay10 · Member

Wow! I think our alcoholic husbands and Mothers in law are from the same planet! Reading your words was like reading exactly what is going on in my world right now. I am disgusted with how his mother is behaving, and even more disgusted with the way that he seems to be carefully keeping the 2 worlds separate. But she is eating it up, and I see now that she's thriving on every moment of the drama. And just about a month ago I confided in her what's been going on, him drinking again and lying, etc, and she confessed that he came to her for money and then offered me whatever support I need in dealing with the mess. Then she completely ignores me and regularly calls to check on him, see how HE is doing.

I'm still relatively new to alanon but it's helping me, too. First and foremost knowing that I'm not alone is heartening. Second, learning that I'm not the crazy one is helpful, and that I can actually trust my own judgment. Still working on keeping calm, though. Some days I do better than others.

Hugs---you are not alone. Thank you so much for sharing and letting me share.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

It is manipulation and power and control. Bad behaviour gets a desired reaction, could be fear or anger. Its like a young child annoyed at one person and being extra nice to another person to show them its all their fault, they make them behave badly. Hes telling you its all your fault, look how nice I really am, you make me behave this way.the choice is yours though, you can believe his act and buy In or you can focus on yourself. You dont need to hide all this from his mother, if she asks I would tell the truth. This man has been abusive and behaving badly, hiding that fact, condones it.

Luiza · Senior Member

After my course I had time alone with MIL and she didn't ask me anything and I didn't mention anything. I had such a blasé attitude and focused on myself only, I am so happy with myself! She won't get no more drama from me, that is for sure.
I have confided in her over the years, so she knows how I feel and what is going on, even if she chooses to be in denial.
I decided that I don't need to say anything about him to anybody from his family, even if they ask. I want to make a point to say absolutely nothing about him from now on.
Unless I have something POSITIVE to say.

-- Edited by Luiza on Saturday 13th of September 2014 05:21:39 PM

cloudyskies · ~*Service Worker*~

MIL is definitely in denial. If you want to offer something positive to her, why not suggest she attend some al-anon meetings. Maybe not the same ones you attend though.

hang in there Luiza.

Take one day at a time. smile

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I think you've made a wise decision for you right now, Luiza. This is an emotionally volatile situation that the untreated A and untreated MIL can escalate in short order if the disease gets it way. The child is in the middle of it as you know and based on my own experience, it would have been more damaging for my children if I'd tried to involve my in-laws in the situation and no good would have come from it. I wanted my children to know their grandparents and knew their grandparents would not harm them. Had I tried to push my x's issues on them, I could have also harmed the in-laws, too, who were also innocent of what went on in our marriage. Had either IL asked questions of me, I would have known to tell only what was true for me because I would have known the door was opened on their end and they might have been able to hear me. They didn't ask questions of me and did not put me down to my children either. Their father did but not the grandparents. That is what mattered most to me - the wellbeing of my innocent children. For all you know, your MIL might be asking your husband to get help as I would with my own son - and they listen to mothers generally as much as they listen to wives as the disease progresses.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 13th of September 2014 07:01:28 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 13th of September 2014 07:02:55 PM

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

This just happened to me. I posted about it. They are like chameleons. Or snakes. Just too hard to figure out who you are getting from one day to the next. I understand.

Mirandac · ~*Service Worker*~

I can so relate ah son and enabling and in denial MIL.

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