Hello, I have seen that commercial many, many times when I couldn't sleep at night. So being the crazy that I am I investigated this. They use a new style that is similar to SMART recovery which is a system based more on the mental issues and science stuff behind addiction. Some people don't or cannot use 12 step recoveries to make it. It may be an issue of a personality disorder and they cannot participate fully in group settings. Some people opt to have a Recovery Coach or Counselor.

Some people have done research on the AA model and have found this to be true: For decades, Americans have clung to a near-religious conviction that rehab -- and the 12-step model pioneered by Alcoholics Anonymous that almost all facilities rely upon -- offers effective treatment for alcoholism and other addictions, with little to no statistics ever being released from this group due to the anonymous approach, no surveys, studies etc are generally allowed from outside entities. I may be hesitant to take a recovery approach not knowing the true outcomes of success versus failure and not just the numbers of persons who enter a room whether it be one time or for the millionth time.

Here's another problem: We have little indication that this treatment is effective. When an alcoholic goes to rehab but does not recover, it is he who is said to have failed. But it is rehab that is failing alcoholics. The therapies offered in most U.S. alcohol treatment centers are so divorced from state-of-the-art of medical knowledge that we might dismiss them as merely quaint -- if it weren't for the fact that alcoholism is a deadly and devastating disease. They also know that 90% of people who enter the rooms don't last past a month. So I think maybe if a 12 step approach doesn't work for you, then maybe something else more science based will work.

Also this message in the Big Book never blames the AA approach but rather the person themself:
AA maintains that when an alcoholic fails, it is his fault, not the program's. As outlined in the organization's namesake bible, "Alcoholics Anonymous" (also known as "The Big Book"): "Those who do not recover are those who cannot or will not give themselves completely to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates . . . they seem to have been born that way." This message can be devastating to some as they already feel so hopeless and if we are led to believe this is a devastating disease and born this way then why do we say that someone isn't honest with themselves. We truly cannot know that, we don't say others born into some type of disease, mental health issues or lifestyle are dishonest about themselves.

I think each person has a belief system and I think once a person gets to the point of even saying, I think I have a problem, no matter what approach they try, at least they are trying something to arrest and manage their disease. Once you get the low down a little more on the place that is advertised, the guy has been in 12 step programs, and has in some form adapted some principles from that approach, such as mediation.

Please note, I am not taking sides on 12 step programs being any less or any better than other approaches. I know for me it really got me to thinking in different ways on the approaches to addiction issues. I don't want anyone here to be upset or mad with me. It is just me learning and exploring different thoughts, ideas, opinions etc.

I would imagine anything about alcoholism is useful to all of us cloudy. Im not very knowledgable about other treatments. I do remeber my ex ah on a couple of different programs. One was a counselling program where he was to be taught to drink responsibly, aye right, that seemed like the craziest idea ever to me. Its like a lack of understanding of the disease, or a denial of the disease itself. Then he tried taking tablets that took the craving away, sounds good in the short term but then what? Thats like when were on a diet for six weeks, we loose weight but we probably put it on as soon as we stop the diet. Same thing really, unless you deal with the underlying disorder or distorted thinking then its like putting a band aid on after open heart surgery or something like that. 

I think aa works for most people who are ready because it helps them change their thinking patterns, builds their self esteem and self worth, its working from the inside addressing the drinking as a symptom rather than a seperate stand alone problem. The problem is that unless the person is ready and has surrendered part of themselves then nothing can get them sober, so if someone goes to aa having being forced by courts or family or anyone else they are unlikely to committ fully, the motive behind it is not fulky their own. I dont agree that rehabs are to blame if the person doesnt get sober, that suggest the alcoholic is helpless and has no responsibility ti their own  sobriety. We are powerless, that means everyone, in my view, unless they want it then it will never happen with or without aa.x

Addiction has different meanings in the recovery community, medical community, and in the counseling community. Currently - the word "addict" is not even used in the DSM which is the standard for diagnosing mental disorders. Not sure about medical books as I am a counselor. We diagnose Substance use disorder (insert name of substance), mild, moderate, or severe. People claim to be food addicts and sex addicts and such all the time now and the term has lost scientific meaning. Hence, someone could say they are no longer an addict and it would mean something different than how AA usually defines it..which is that it does not go away but can be treated and in remission contingent upon ongoing treatment..So some of this is semantics. By medical standards I believe you are no longer "addicted" once you no longer have dependency, withdrawal, and an abnormal tolerance.

Personally, I know some folks can just stop drinking (maybe they were not real alcoholics or maybe they are just the select few). I also know some who have gotten sober through church and other recovery programs. In any market though, there will always be crocks that claim results for more money but less work. That is what I feel this "cure" thing/commercial is. Even if I could have been "cured" with a pill or some month long treatment, I would not want that as I cherish what AA has given me.  AA also claims to offer a spiritual solution so it does not lend itself to the scientific model...and perhaps it shouldn't.  

People have been going to church since the dawn of time,  yet where is the "scientific evidence" that church stops you from sinning or helps you get into heaven?  I will open a church where you only have to go 1 time ever and are guaranteed to be an "ex-sinner" and a fully reserved spot in heaven.  Sounds great right?  I bet some folks would even go LOL.

-- Edited by pinkchip on Wednesday 10th of September 2014 05:45:01 PM

-- Edited by pinkchip on Wednesday 10th of September 2014 05:46:15 PM

Alcoholism is seen to be a disease and the word addiction is even applied to ice cream now and Starbucks coffee. So, I agree. Addiction is not cut and dried depending on who is using it and in what context. Hope your Mom is better today?

Grateful, she is doing better, but still has a long way to go. She's having a lot of digestive track problems. Good news, though, her blood pressure is staying down. Thanks for asking.

Thanks Debilyn for that share.

Thanks for all the different views on this subject. I have seen shows/documentaries praising AA and dogging it. Someone said due to the anonymity it is hard to get real facts on what the success rate is; some say it is 3-5% regardless of the program. It is all over the place from what I have read and heard. And there are different types of addcion/DNA, etc. as mentioned in all the posts here. Like diabetes (which there are two kinds) one is controllable/curable (type 2) and one is not, will always require insulin/meds (type 1). 

But, as I continue to learn about the disease, addiction, DNA and/or just choice, I am starting to see where my AH might be (addition to choice). I did not know his dad as he died before we were married but I suspect when he came home from work he had a drink (hard liqour) to relax, the same as my AH brother does every day.  My AH can't/won't stop & the drinking is in hiding. But, there are other factors I think play into it. He is the baby and was always coddled and still is at age of 51. He is perfect and has never been wrong or done wrong, ever. He has been babied as during his teenage years he had a series of medical issues no one could diagnose and they all just kept coddling him long after this was gone. This perfection is affirmed over and over by his mother, his biggest enabler. So, if anyone opposes him, they are wrong - period - as he is never wrong on any matter. He can't be an alcoholic because he is perfect. I am not making this up; these are words I have heard come from the mother and the AH. When I tried to seek help from the family I was disowned and they rallied around the AH and supported him 100%; they haven't talked to me in 7-8 years. I don't know if this is DNA, environmental or something else. I do know he goes to counseling but lies to them and tells them he is sober, w/ an occassional "slip up", but has never stopped drinking in our 15 years of marriage. The slip ups are full bottles of vodka a few times a week. But, since he doesn't think he needs help, knowing what kind of help he needs is pointless. He says he is working a program, but he is not. He has to decide he wants help and determine what is the best plan of action. 

Again, thank you all for your wealth of knowledge. It helps me understand this beast, and accept it, take care of myself. 

T~

Hi,

I have seen ads and websites totally against AA, saying all the things you have cited. They say AA has a paltry 3-5% success rate, which may very well be true for all I know. However, the funny thing I noticed in those ads - I don't ever see any success or cure rates cited for their own treatments They all say you need to call this 1-800 number to get more information. To me that just sounds like you are going to get to talk to a salesman about their center.

If there is something better that can cure addiction, I would want to check into that for sure. But my small amount of informal research into the "cure" places just raises my charlatan flag. If they really worked, and had 100%, or say even 50% success rates, then why aren't they trumpeted throughout the medical and addiction press? Why don't they publish their stats openly? If backed so much by medical research, why don't all the medical facilities advocate using it, instead of just their one proprietary center?

One of the things I most admire about AA and Al Anon are the traditions. I admire the first part of tradition 11 even more than the anonymity part: "Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion." There aren't people out there selling AA for a living. There are treatment centers that believe strongly in AA, but then Tradition 6 comes into play: "An A. A. ought never endorse, finance or lend our name to any outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose".  Therefore, AA doesn't endorse any centers to get a kickback, the centers use AA because they believe it is the best chance people have.

With traditions like that, I think the AA program is worth giving a try. And at $1/meeting, it's very affordable to almost any income level.

Kenny

-- Edited by KennyFenderjazz on Thursday 11th of September 2014 08:58:45 AM

Thanks for all the insight. Like PP, I'm going to try and keep an open mind on this. I do agree with Kenny though, if they are going to advocate cures,I would like to see their success rates over a period of years, not just months.