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Today my husband asked if my daughter and I could come to the house and have dinner with him. He said he just wanted us all to be nice to each other and enjoy dinner and watch the dogs play. "normal" family stuff. And we weren't going to bring up anything controversial such as him not having a job. Or how my mom just paid my daughter's school tuition for 2 months because he can't help with it and I am struggling. When he asked me to come over I ended up telling him all the things that were bothering me. It turned into a debate. I ended up saying no to dinner. But it was tempting to go over and just be civil and have dinner. But the house is a big mess and there are things I just can't get past. I am hurting too much. I decided to not give in. Now I feel exhausted and sad. I have a debate in my head going on. it goes like this "what harm would it do just to have dinner?" But he has done so many hurtful things. We are not on the same pathway in life. "If I don't do what he wants, maybe he will do something drastic". It isn't my responsibility if he does something bad because I don't come over.
Anyway, i wish he would have cared enough to try and prevent me from leaving. He wants something now that he threw away.
he plays a lot of mind games. I ask him about the job hunting and he says if he could trust me he would tell me more...I really don't think there is "more". He caught me reading a journal he had recently, so he says that's why he can't tell me what's going on. It's just a big mind game we both play. And I can't play anymore. He says he knows he has hurt me and he wants to look towards the future, not the past. He still isn't really working a program. if I bring up ANYTHING that he does that I don't like he tells me to look toward the future and to renounce negativity. That's his latest catch phrase " renounce Negativity". In other words, don't say anything about him that I don't approve of.
Just feeling the "if onlies." It's understandable. You did a good job honoring your own feelings and choosing to act in your best interest. It wouldn't have been a good evening if you felt uncomfortable. Someone in Alanon once told me TT never make someone else your priority and allow yourself to be there option. I thought those were wise words. ((hugs))
To thine own self be true
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
You reminded me of when AH and I would talk. He actually sold me the pick up. I said what about all those thousands of YOUR taxes I paid?? OH that was in the past. oh brother.
they do not want to take any responsibility for anything so anything past is gone....ugh.
Hey he showed you his true colors. Why would you want to go eat with him? There is no normal to find. He is living in lala land. If you went, that would be enabling. I am glad you stayed strong and said no.
You are doing great on your program, it's not easy but I see you strong and thinking, doing your best. hugs!
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Putting HP first, always <(*@*)>
"It's not so much being loved for ourselves, but more for being loved in spite of ourselves."
I like TT's suggestion.
My H keeps telling me how selfish I am now: "it is all about me"
It has been all about him and his drinking for such a long time, he can't cope with not being the focus and priority anymore.
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Sometimes the smallest step in the right direction ends up being the biggest step of your life. Tip toe if you must but take the step.
Dinner on his terms and conditions....someday you will chuckle about this. Now it hurts. You made the best choice for you and your daughter and that is good for your recovery.
Maybe you want something better from him and hope it will come and yet reality has shown you that it just won't happen? Truth hurts and then it frees us. You were wise to say "no" to yet another hook from the disease. You are growing. Good for you. Just the fact that he tackled you and it took your daughter to free you and a police call is enough for you to know that you deserve much, much better than this. Being alone is better than being with a man with so little respect for himself and therefore for you. (((NLG)))
The fact that it takes so much out of you just to talk to him says a lot about his current compatibility with you. I praise you for knowing when enough was enough and opting for self care instead.
I knew if I went to the house we would have ended up arguing. He tells me I live in the past and sends me long texts. He is convinced I just want someone to argue with. Even when I ignore him. It's so complicated. Since I don't want to have dinner and just be nice he figures I want to be mean and debate him instead. Ugh. Such chaos.
So last night my daughter and I went out to eat instead. Thanks everyone for replying
To stay out of the chaos, be like Teflon and let his words, opinions, beliefs, etc, slide off. I know if my 3 year old granddaughter has an opinion about me or what I do, it is coming from her beautiful and self absorbed world and it has no effect on how I will conduct my life I don't become ungrounded from her words. And, as a result of my recovery work, the people I allow to influence my life have been run through my careful discernment.
-- Edited by PP on Wednesday 10th of September 2014 10:35:25 AM
I so agree with Paula on this. NLG, the disease is talking from what I read in your share. If your husband wasn't caught up in the disease, his words would be much different. Knowing what he says has probably 99% nothing to do with you and everything to do with a power greater than either of you that is the disease, can help you withdraw your mind from the disease's constant badgering, blaming, shaming and attempting to argue with you or you with it. Turning to your HP who is greater than the disease and trusting what you hear that is not shaming, blaming, argumentative or damning by practicing Step 2 and 3 might be a help to you in this, too? You have a tremendous amount of responsibility and stress on your plate. You have just recently gone through a physical move and emotional separation. Both daughters have gone away to school and you have one child at home. Your job is also chock full of responsibilities and surprises and stressors. That's an awful lot for one woman to deal with in a short time. I am glad you are going to Al-Anon (if you are - I truly can't remember on this) and to the divorce support group. Perhaps a daily assets and gratitude list and a huge injection of FUN daily for you might help, too?
-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 10th of September 2014 10:33:58 AM
Hi Paula and grateful...you are both right. Yes, I am going to al anon. My home group meets this morning, but I am finding this meeting to be very depressing as there isn't a lot of recovery in it and the mood is so low. I went to the divorce support group for the first meeting Monday night, it was great. I am going to go to other al anon meetings that uplift my mood more. Today I am having lunch with a friend I haven't talked to in a long time.
The more I think about what my AH says to me, the more I realize how manipulative it is. When I ask him about his job hunting he won't tell me anything and has very vague answers. Then he tells me if I have dinner with him and "meet him half way" he might open up more. It's like a trap. He also tells me how his dog misses my dog. I left my dog there when he watched our daughter and he said after the dog left, his dog was really lost and sad. So he is using a lot of tactics to get me to have dinner on his terms.
When I tell him all the things I don't find attractive, such as messy house, no job, no garbage service...he just says all I focus on is the negative and I can't move forward. He even thinks it's ok to ask the neighbor to put his recycling in their trash can. We don't see things the same way, that's for sure. He tells me I only look at him as an ATM machine. Ha. I have always told him I just want normalcy. It doesn't happen with him. My requests have been for him to work his schedule (when he was working) to stop drinking, not spend a lot of money, not hoard things and get rid of junk cars. Also, to help me with our daughter more. He couldn't do it. So I left. Sometimes I do feel guilty because I remember how I felt when my first husband left me. I tried everything to get him back. I can understand how my husband feels in some ways. AH also says it will be my choice for house to foreclose. I didn't want a state program that would help us pay mortgage for 3 months because I know it's just a bandaid. They will get their money back if we sell house within 3 years. I want to sell, he doesn't. So he is mad that I didn't take the state handout.
Ok...just venting since I'm not going to my meeting this morning. This is my share. :)
We can't change them. They can't change us. We can do exactly what you are doing - talk with others, reason things out, attend Al-Anon meetings and work the steps with a sponsor, meet with friends to nurture our friendships, go to groups especially designed for whatever specific issue presents itself and recognize our own value, worth and willingness to change what we can and leave the outcome in our HP's hands. Glad you're meeting for lunch with a friend today. And it makes me happy when I read how much you liked the divorce support group experience. I don't know where I would have been without that type of support when I divorced my x. Made a huge difference for me. (((NLG)))
There's part of me that thinks I should have dinner with him just to see if he has a job. Crazy thoughts. He should communicate with me anyway...regardless if I have dinner with him! Ugh
If he had a job, you'd know it. And I get that "need to know" stuff that I let get in the way of my own serenity sometimes. He could tell you he has a job, he's got an interview for a job, he is starting his own business, he has started his own business, he's been working for a month now and still that wouldn't change a thing for you - especially if he isn't paying his share. My x did have a job and I still had to take my case to the state to recover some of what he owed my children. Then, later, he could hide the money he made (used car salesman) and wasn't pursued even by the state once he moved to another state. I had to rely totally on my HP because he never did help with child support to any big degree nor did he pay any of the bills that were split up by the judge at the time of divorce. By the time he died, he was thousands in arrears on child support which my children would never see, had nothing of value other than a life insurance policy through work that didn't even list all his children and a rental car to my knowledge. We can hope they'll get their act together and from what you've read here, most of us have not experienced that in relationship to some of our As.
I know it is hard to get to the place in our recovery, that we realize what he does is not our business. We say but we are married, but he has the house, but I want money from him etc.
At some point we realize wanting to know if they have a job, or if they are using or whatever is just our insanity. Our sickness from the disease.
I had to get brutally honest with myself. He is going to do or not do whatever. Sooooo
I looked at what "I" could do. Stopped looking for anything from him or asking him for anything. Your AH knows he has a daughter, no one should have to ask him to step up. he is an adult. Apparently he is not going to comply to any of what you want.
So I think you were at the part where you need to let it all go and get a divorce. Thereby he has to sell to give you half or buy you out.
As far as the rest, getting blood out of a turnip? We cannot make anyone else do anything and to keep having it in our heads, well I will get money from A, or I will ask A to do more for his child is honestly making one sicker.
hitting ones head into a wall. Hey we ALL go thru this. We want so much to have something go smooth. With an A.....never. or rarely.
He is a hoarder so you know he has issues besides being A.
Anyway this is what went thru my mind...hugs!!!!
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Putting HP first, always <(*@*)>
"It's not so much being loved for ourselves, but more for being loved in spite of ourselves."
Many many times my exAH would want things to be better yet there was never any action on his part to make any sort of change.
He wanted everything "all better" on his terms which basically meant "I just want to stay sick and I want you to be happy with the situation and not rock the boat. Turn a blind eye while I continue to suck the life out of you and think only about myself."
If nothing changes, nothing changes.
It took me a long time to remove the rose-colored glasses and really recognize my exAH for who he was. Looked at the situation and his reality and asked myself "can I live with this the rest of my life?"
My answer was a solid "no."
Didn't mean I had to stop loving the man and caring about him, but I finally realized I didn't have to stay married to him, either.
That was what was best for me.
There were many verbal "if only's" and "I promise" remarks from the exAH. But his actions never matched his words. Ever.
That was spot on for me too, Aloha.
No matter what is offered up to me, the bottom line is always the same, he will be doing nothing whatsoever to change in any way, now can I please get over it and go back to being a doormat? Because things will be so much nicer for him if I do!
I'm coming to realise that I can't make nice with him, not even for a few minutes anymore because it seems to me, no matter what he is saying or doing, or even how nice he is being, he is determined to make no actual changes of any kind, and he is not willing to discuss ANYTHING other than his fantasies and nonsense about when he is rich (which he is still going to be, somehow) and why am I so negative and why do I have to bring up the past and why am I so stubborn when he is TRYING so hard? (Trying to do what? Avoid reality and push me back into my cage?)
It doesn't matter what I do, if I engage with him I end up tearing my hair out and wanting to scream. I'm guessing it's kinda like that for you too?
Anyway good on you for avoiding that situation. I couldn't do a happy families dinner with A now either, I just can't play pretend anymore. It's disrespectful to myself and I don't do that anymore.
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Its good you can see it for what it is nlg. Keep saying no and hel get the message and the less he asks the more chance for you to get stronger.
Melly, thats some progress you have made, loving your esh.x