Detachment = no talk? - Al-Anon Family Group

Venera · Senior Member

Detachment = no talk?

Luiza · Senior Member

Hi Venera.

Once I started to do Al-Anon I stopped engaging with my H when he was drunk. I soon realised that talking to him about his drinking when he was sober would be very frustrating.
My H will either: deny he has a drinking problem/promise he will stop or reduce /pretend he is concerned about his drinking/ re-assure me he will seek help asap/ promise that we will never have an incident caused by his drinking again OR minimise my feelings and my concerns/get angry or hurt because I am saying he has a problem/tell me I am not a doctor to diagnose him/ Tell me that I am the one with a problem/tell me that I cause his problem.

My H is aggressive and unpleasant 99% of the time he is drunk, therefore I am not engaging as much, only when necessary and I am detaching by separating.
Unfortunately we have a child together and I can't detach for good and forever.

How do I stop thinking about an A? I put myself on focus first. It is all about me (and my daughter). Again I just think about him when necessary, because I now realise I need to save myself and my daughter otherwise the three of us will sink together. But I do pray for him and wish he comes round to rationality and health and he becomes the nice guy he has the potential to be.

This is my experience.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Get busy doing things that don't involve him that make you happy. It's when you sit around that you will start obsessing.

And detaching has to do with your emotions not your verbalizations. Detach from it crushing you and dictating your own happiness when he drinks. Part of that will mean you talk about it less because you simply will be busier doing things for you, doing things with other people who ARE available instead of the drunk who chooses to make themselves unavailable, and generally just moving forward in a way that is healthy for you. Eventually, you may be so emotionally detached that you don't even care that much about his lying and stupid remarks. If it does reach that point though, there is a risk you will just fully detach so it does help to have some conversations when he's sober and asks things like "why do you not care about me as much?" which is typically how they read the absence of nagging and pleading with them to stop or to be more attentive, responsible, or caring.

singingnick377 · Member

Hi, I never had an alcoholic partner. It was my father who was the alcoholic but I remember the last partner I was with who I was completely codependent on and obsessed with the whole time we were together. I gave to much of myself to him and lost myself so much in the process, living a lot through him and just forgetting who I was and my needs. I was a pleaser and he was an enabler, very much enjoying all the attention. When it ended I was still obsessed with him for a long time and I remember someone from al anon saying to me 'every time that you want to contact him or miss him, want to do something for him (we stayed in contact for a while), put that energy back onto yourself and do what is good for you'. Gosh, I found this so hard. Having neglected myself I had used most of my energy focussing on him and I had to kind of retrain myself to learn who I was and find out what would make ME happy. The hardest thing was realising that whilst I was sat thinking of him he certainly wasn't sat thinking of me and my happiness. A part of me didn't even know how to put the focus on me as I was so used to having somebody else to put it onto, but I put myself first now and I feel much happier. I realise I have no control over others, what they think and what they want to do, but I have control over myself and am the only one who lives with me 24/7 and is going to put the energy into making me happy. Let it begin with you and what is good for you and if that means detaching from your partner then that's the right thing to do. Good luck and enjoy all this new energy for yourself!!!!

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Doing the steps are the foundation of ones recovery. Its like a dog must go thru obediance training before they are trained to be a watch dog.

detachment for me is loving that person. Not giving any energy or attention to their behavior or anything. Their disease is their own. NOT my problem or my business. I am not their mother, probation officer or anything> I am someone who just chooses to live with them or be around them.

I don't have a right to change anyone but myself.

I learned to enjoy my A when he was enjoyable. When he was not< I did something else. If he wanted to talk about his disease I told him that is his business.

When we are in recovery and working our program, we learn to allow them the dignity to do whatever they do. I would not want anyone telling me what to do, catching me lieing or drinking or eating cheesecake.

Just becuz I am married to someone its not my job to monitor them!

detachment for me was loving the person as is. and accepting them as is as I cannot change them anyway. If I cannot live with that I leave or they do Or I stop the friendship.

It is very freeing and it is how I am with everyone. I have zero expectations of anyone or anything. Take things as they come one day at a time. hugs

cloudyskies · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Venera. Detachment for me does not equal no talk, but it does mean a different way of talking. If my h comes home and I can tell he is drinking, I will usually try to avoid conversation that will be lengthy. If he asks me a question such as, what's for dinner, I'll answer. If he asks where's the mail, I'll answer. I don't engage in any conversation that will cause him to become agitated. I will not be dragged into an argument with him. If he asks something that I know will lead to an argument, I simply say, "I'll discuss that with you later", and I remove myself from his presence. I usually go out on the porch and read, or I go for a walk--do something that is good for me.

I do discuss his drinking when he becomes sober, but I do it in a calm and peaceful manner (I used to rage). If he does something really stupid while he's drinking, I tell him what he did. I'll ask him if he remembers what he did when he was drinking, and if he says no, then I tell him. I don't tell him in a demeaning way, I simply state the facts. I have been amazed lately because his response has been--I did THAT? I think he is finally realizing that I'm not his enemy. I am as open and honest as I can be without being judgmental.

I understand that he is sick, and I am letting him own that sickness. I don't clean up any of his messes, I don't make any excuses for him, and I don't feel sorry for him. I am allowing him the dignity to choose his path. He is really struggling lately to control his drinking, and while I want desperately to help him, I know I can't.

I'm learning that I can love this man without loving his illness. I have not mastered how NOT to think about my ah. But, I not longer obsess over him. When I think he's drinking, I begin saying the Serenity Prayer and Let go and Let God. Then, I get my mind off of him by doing something for me--getting my hair done, nails done, going out to lunch or dinner with my mom--something that I enjoy.

People change, and one day I may reach a point where I need to detach permanently, but for now, this works for me.

It works if you work it. smile

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

The answers are in the recovery program and come with a bit of time spent at meetings, readings, steps etc. Im not sure you can just learn it without the work, not for a deeper understanding of the concepts and in my experience it was the work done on my thinking that made all this slot in to place.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I, too, agree that the answers we are seeking are within us and working the program is what helps us find the answers for us. We can share our experience, strength and hope with you, Venera, but I don't think that will be enough for you without attending meetings, finding a sponsor, working the steps and having the support and encouragement of people in your groups. Even if our loved ones stop drinking and get into a program, unless we are working one ourselves, nothing really changes because our thinking hasn't changed. Meetings, my sponsor and MIP make a huge positive contribution to my life. I hope you will go to meetings and come back here, too. Our loved ones will do what they will do and we can be rebuilding ourselves with the program work and the help of MIP.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 8th of September 2014 07:35:05 PM

Venera · Senior Member

Wow! So many shares and great takes on the question, thank you! Yes I do go to meetings and now trying to find a sponsor, but not sure who to ask. My meetings are at lunch and so I run back to the office without staying extra time for chat. I am clear I shouldn't talk to drunk which most of the time works, but not sure how to have this elephant in the room when he is sober. We did talk a lot in the past about this problem, and for periods of time he stops ( he is a binge drinker), but then gradually goes back to drinking. We have a routine of going out on the weekends and now I feel I don't want to go because he will order margarita and he may and may not stop drinking when we get home. Not do I want to invite friends and serve beer/ wine at home, though I don't want to not invite anyone either. So it is hard to not talk about drinking at all.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I am so glad you are going to meetings, Venera. I do hope you find a sponsor soon to help you work through some of this. It sounds so complicated to me. Lots of stuff for you to work through here. When I was married and we had children, there was no liquor in our house. He partied on weekends with Jack Daniels but not in our house. I didn't go with him to friends' houses after we had children. I didn't want them to be around alcohol and all his friends drank. We did have friends in but we didn't serve booze. Pop was it. On the other hand, he was a pot smoker and it took moving him out of the house to get that junk out of it.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Venera. Every night I sit in a meeting I hear the very first promise the program ever made to me that came true. The very first miracle. In the closing statement in part it says "If you keep an open mind...you will find help". Open mindedness Go Figure!! I didn't know anything about that cause I was sooo reactive in the disease. My mind was gone, closed, still in the same box it came in. I had never really used it and now I was being taught how. Open mindedness meant for me to listen slowly, ask for clarifications when I didn't "get it" and asking for more help as I continued to come back. I learned so much from that first promise. Detachment verbally I learned was only a part of conversation...I learned that body language was a bigger part of conversation...I had to learn how to have my mouth and my body convey the same message or else the disease would control and manipulate again. In detachment when my body would speak and say "I'm okay and the biggest issue in my life today isn't alcoholism" both my addict/alcoholic wife and I could relax some. Of course her body language spoke volumes at time also and I could read it well...then I could consider how and if I wanted to participate. There is a difference between being "dry" and being sober. Alcohol affects "EVERYTHING" it comes into contact with...in their bodies and everything around their bodies. It cannot not do that. Drunk is not normal and under the influence doesn't always mean being drunk...under the influence can mean dry and mentally, emotionally, spiritually and physically still under the influence of the chemical. I had to bring the reality that my wife was an alcoholic/addict into my everyday awareness and to alter my expectations with that. I lost the "surprise" reaction I use to always have with me and I learned when "my wife" was with me and when "my alcoholic" was. That helped me to understand that I didn't need to alter myself other than my awareness on how to respond on condition. My responses changed toward allowing her the dignity for the consequences from her decision to drink and use and when I stopped jumping in she had to work more diligently at keeping in balance and eventually she had to stop drinking and using and admit her self into rehab and then recovery. I didn't force her or even suggest it...that was between her and a power greater than herself, the chemicals and me.

There are times for no talk...I get to choose those times and I get to say I will not without justifications. I don't use "you" statements only "I" statements. "I will not talk about it now...perhaps later...or not". My conversation ends on that period...I'm done and if the alcoholic/addict wanted to bait and pull me back in I would smile and then separate myself from her angst. I'm no longer married to the alcoholic/addict and the detachment still works with others.

I learned that if talking about it didn't change it than talking about is wouldn't change it...I stopped. I learned that I would be talking to someone who would be protecting themselves and their drinking because they knew it was a problem...for them and for others and my wife knew it. When I learned that she knew it that's when I learned we were on the same page and had to do separate/different things to deal with it. I got into recovery...she continued to drink and use until she could no longer and what happened in between happened in between. We are no longer married...we should never have been married...My Bad.

I learned detachment on there levels...with anger, with disinterest, with love. It was all lessons and practice and couldn't arrive at detachment with love until I got thru the anger; which is normal in addiction, and the disinterest which is also in addiction and then love which is normal in recovery. Do the recovery first and often. Find the sponsor...someone with time who seems to have the "walk and the talk" always on the same level and who will also agree to sponsorship. If they say no...don't take it personal...ask another and then another until you find one who will work with you...All my sponsors were angels...just had to be cause I had a devil of a time getting into and staying with and learning how to work the program. learn the definition of humility when finding the sponsor and practice it when working with the sponsor. "Humility" my sponsor taught me was "being teachable"...open mindedness and being teachable and practice, practice, practice and you will become another Miracle In Progress. Good to have you hear and thanks for your participation. (((((hugs))))) smile

blessed · Senior Member

I agree w/ all the posts.

When my AH was drunk he didn't remember what I said, and when he was sober he would blow up and say, "I don't have a disease or a drinking problem and it wouldn't matter if I was sober, you wouldn't be happy and nothing I do matters, blah, blah, blah."Then once in a while he would say, "You used to drink, and drinking is not a sin." That just made me laugh. I drank socially, a glass of wine here and there & as for the sin statement, I don't even know what to do w/ that one- certainly did not warrant a reply. My situation was different in that he did not drink openly (didn't have a beer or a drink in a glass). His booze was hidden, always, in car, briefcase, cupboard, etc. I have never seen the man drink in 15 years - it was always in hiding. He would go to garage quite frequently to take a swig. He was never a falling down drunk. He would throw up or fall asleep. If I talked to him he would just answer me with clenched teeth and his bottom jaw thrust out as if I was bothering him. Of course his drinking did come up in joint counseling (we did individual and joint) but he always said he had been sober for ____ weeks, months, etc. It changed each time it was brought up. But the ATM withdrawls never stopped and this was the funny/stupid part. I managed the $ and knew when he was drinking based on his cash withdrawls. He never left me receipts for these. It was a stupdi game that got old real fast.

So, I learned that talking about the drinking whether drunk, sober or in counseling was a waste of time & only frustrated me while you were being lied & who likes to be lied to. It is hard just letting it go; but that is what I had to do for my own sanity.

Flower49 · Senior Member

Detachment for me is this: Take care of me first and mind my own side of the street. My AH is in a recovery house and I talk to him for 10 minutes a day. When I have an issue with something that is going on in our "real life", I may bring it up or I may not. This depends on how much of a problem it really is. I do at times talk with him about what he is doing in recovery and at other times when I just can't hear anymore about him, I steer the conversation to something different.

I am getting a little anxious now because eventually pretty soon he will be moved to a 3/4 way house and constantly talks about how he will get passes to come home and "visit". Not sure how that will go or how I feel about that. It seems they move him from the 1/2 way house and we have had no professional counseling together and suddenly he feels entitled to get his passes and come visit. That is where I will really need to put my detaching tools to use I think. It feels like he just gets to waltz back in and pick up where he left off. I have talked with him about boundaries, counseling etc, but generally his response is: Right, right, right....he isn't really listening.

Talking to my AH about anything usually leaves me frustrated, he can't make decisions with me on anything that has to do with our life together so I just do my best. Detaching for me also means to always be watching and listening. If the tone of the conversation means he is open minded at the minute and wants to talk through something I will go with it. If not, I just don't bother. I am learning to enjoy the times when he is coming across as "normal" and just shutting up or walking away when he is in a poor place. I have learned I don't need his "junk" in my life whether he is actively in recovery or if he is actively using. I feel blessed to finally get to this point and I only wish I could practice it perfectly!

Lyne · ~*Service Worker*~

Detachment for me has gotten better over time, especially since my sponsor gave me the job of not having any expectations of my A. I think since this homework assignment, I have gotten better at it. However, like anything else, sometimes I am better at it than others. Sometimes I get caught off guard and briefly, get pulled back into the old dance. I recognize it and get back on track with myself. Progress, not perfection. I still will discuss drinking when the A brings it up first in some way. And my approach has changed dramatically. The anxiety, anger, disappointment, and obsessions, are no longer with me. I have developed some freedom regarding these emotions and the A. I can breathe. Lyne

Venera · Senior Member

Thank you all!! So helpful! I guess I am still looking for an easy answer or a solution, but the real answer is "working the program" ... )))

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