The material presented
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Thanks for asking. I'm brand new here. I don't know either, very clearly. I'm working with a new sponsor with many years experience in both AA and Al-Anon, with considerable sponsoring experience. It's interesting for me to think about the possibility that I have my own phenomenon of craving, so was hoping to benefit from other members ESH (experience, strength and hope for anyone that doesn't know).
The best I understand it is when I've had a taste of having my relationship with my adult daughter be exactly the way I want it to be and then being disappointed and suffering from obsessive thoughts about how I wish they were, when things aren't going well. Times when I want to fix things that I perceive as wrong (in my grandchild's relationships/life with her.)
I can't say I craved the relationships I have wanted with my loved ones. I can say that I have learned to let go of what I have wanted and accepted more what I am given one day at a time. That doesn't mean I jump up and down with joy when my AS is taken over by the disease but I don't allow him or his disease to determine what kind of day I am going to have, how I am going to think or how I am going to feel to the degree I did.
Aloha Kathy and welcome to the board...great question and reach out. What I came to understand was that the craving I have was the same on both sides of the bottle or bar. I want what I want when I want it and I want it to satisfy my needs...perfectly..so that I won't have to feel anymore cravings. Cravings are not good feelings on any level...mind, body, spirit and emotions I want to put them to rest at all times and without the program will choose by reaction without the "...orderly process of thought" which is part of the definition of sanity I learned in recovery. I understand what craving is like now mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually. When I get those alerts from those levels I don't cast them off. I use them to inventory what is going on and what is going on with me (my part in it) and then I use the tools of the program which have been given me over time along with the instructions and re-approach the craving from a more balanced perspective one which will bring me closer to serenity. I was taught to align my expectations of the alcoholic/addict wife so that I wasn't attempting to get from her that which she could not or would not be able to provide. That is rational acceptance and it lessened my cravings dramatically. Keep coming back. Its good to have you and your experiences here. (((((hugs)))))
I think that I have probably craved acceptance as a way of avoiding abandonment. It is a bit scary but quite liberating to be learning to stand in my space in my own right.
Welcome Kathy. For me it's a sense of longing. When I've seen my family member clear minded and sober and recognize them as that healthier person I'd known before the alcoholism progressed, I feel a sense of joy that comes with being reunited with someone you love who you've haven't seen in awhile. When my loved one disappears into active drinking again,their sane words and actions are gone and my heart sinks and I grieve the loss of them once again. It took some years to understand that nothing I could say or do was going to change the alcoholics in my life. I meet them where they are at now and try not to force my will or my "wish" on them. Because I truly believe alcoholism is an illness, I know there will be good and not so good days and I can choose engage or detach according to each day to day situation. As far as the alcoholic's effect on other family members, I believe in keeping children safe and loving them as only I can love them in my own role as a their family member. There can be a very special bond between kids and grandparents. When you're lucky to have it, I think it's worth building upon and cherishing. We can't fix anyone else's unacceptable behavior, just monitor our own behave and try to make esteemable and respectful choices when interacting with all family member including the alcoholic. Thanks for your question. You are bound to receive lots of perspectives. Best wishes for working the steps with your sponsor. You're worth it. TT
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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
Much gratitude to those of you who have responded to my request for help. Your postings have given me a good start on understanding my own cravings with my daughter. Although I've been in Al-Anon for a couple of decades, I have never heard this topic discussed in my meetings, and it's been quite a learning process for me. My daughter is actually not an alcoholic but an untreated Al-Anon who wants total control over her two young children and of me. It has been extremely painful for me to watch how she behaves with them when she is expecting immediate total compliance of her expectations/wishes/commands or is shaming them for some common child-like behavior. She and her husband are both arrogant, highly successful lawyers and neither one of them believes in God or allows any discussion of spiritual things with their children. (Ouch! Says my aching heart). She treats me with distain and is often dismissive of me or things I say in many situations. It is difficult to describe articulately at this point in my understanding. The parents don't actually neglect or harm their children in any way that would allow the thinly-stretched social services people to get involved, and they are so sure they are superior and always right. Watching them shame their children for simple behaviors that most parents would accept with a mild correction is the worst of it because I am not allowed to disagree with anything they do, even away from the kids. My daughter has taught me to send her an e-mail if I have difficulty accepting everything she does with them, but will either not respond at all on the very few occasions when I have done this, or is sharply dismissive of even my most open-hearted messages.
I have frequent involvement with both kids either as baby sitter or chauffer (especially to their after school activities such as soccer practice) and my husband and I always show up when invited to holiday celebrations with their family or school events. My step daughter (who never lived with my daughter) says that my daughter treats me like a servant she doesn't like very much, and she and her husband plus my very loving and supportive husband of 21 years are not comfortable being around my daughter and her husband at all. One of the reasons this is all so painful for me is because my daughter and granddaughter are almost the only "blood-related" family I have. I was raised in foster homes and lived in an orphanage for more than ten years. I did my best to raise my 43 year old daughter and her 47 year old son, and love my grandchildren beyond words. My son hasn't wanted to be in my life or my daughter's life for more than 20 years and I have gone through much grieving and emotional work to heal from his absence. Yesterday I came to the realization that if my daughter cuts me out of her family's life, or have to cut her out of mine (because the pain is so great) I will feel that I failed as a parent, and I am not sure I can endure the loss of my 8 year old granddaughter and her adopted 6 year old brother. My step daughter (who also lives in the area) has two 8 year old kids of her own, but although I love them dearly there is something special about being in the lives of my daughter and her family, especially my daughter's daughter. My husband and I were married after both girls were grown and on their own.
This posting is getting too long and probably becoming unreadable for most of the readers on this site, but since I was so touched by the open-hearted responses of those who wrote back to me, I wanted to give you a few more details.
Don't worry about the length of your post, just write your heart out and get it onto the screen. Even though you've been in AlAnon for so long, it probably still feels good to write it all out, or say it all again, to fresh eyes/ears. That's one of the things we are here for!
I had to learn to keep my opinion to myself in relationship to my daughter and grandson. I can be the grandmother I am to my grandson and I can be the mother I am to my daughter but most of the time how my daughter raises her son is none of my business unless, of course, he is being harmed in some way. There are different parenting styles and it sounds as if your daughter's style is authoritarian? My daughter's style is more laid back than mine and it troubles me from time to time. Doesn't matter. Her son. Her decisions. I also learned to compliment my daughter more and mentally compare or criticize her parenting skills less. My parenting wasn't perfect. Nobody's is. My daughter also grew up in an different era than I did and her son is growing up in an era far removed from mine. The challenges they face are different than mine. As Nana, I only know a part of the story and what is going on in their lives just as they only know part of my story and my life. There is a wonderful reminder: To get off their backs, get out of their ways, give them to God and get on with our lives that we apply to the As in our lives. I learned to apply this to my adult daughter and her life, too. If I hadn't, we may not be speaking today. We enjoy our relationship together now and yet I only see her about once a week and talk to her once or twice a week. I make sure I stay connected to my grandson through phone calls and e-mails and at least one day a week that is "our time." I was able to enjoy tending to my grandson's needs at least 6 days a week until he reached teen years for a few hours a day. There were times my daughter took that help for granted. If it got too bad, I'd say something or make a change that felt right to me. Most of the time I was just happy to be of service in relationship to my grandson and as a help to my daughter. It was also good training ground for me in learning how to hold my tongue. It was upsetting to my grandson if his mother and I were having challenging discussions and it just wasn't good for him. My daughter was younger than me, so I knew which one of us needed to make a change and 100% of the time, it was me.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 12th of September 2014 02:59:39 PM
Thanks for your share, Grateful2be, it gave me further food for thought. In my case, I am really not allowed to express my opinion to my daughter so thankfully there haven't been any episodes of upsetting the kids with our conversations. Their mother is in charge and I am the loving, submissive grammie. Perhaps when I have offered an opinion or suggestion in the past, she felt criticized, but it is never intended that way, and she has not admitted to feeling that way. My daughter is a "tough cookie," and feels free to criticize or minimize/discount me whenever she wants to because I become invisible and silent most of the time when she's acting like that out of fear of losing her.
I'm curious to know a little more about your last sentence in your last post, you wrote: My daughter was younger than me, so I knew which one of us needed to make a change and 100% of the time, it was me.
Obviously our daughters will always be younger than we are, but mine is 43 years old, so I wonder if I need to actually be the one to make the changes 100% of the time. She is far from vunerable with me, or if she does ever feel that way, it's never been expressed.
-- Edited by Grammie Kathy on Friday 12th of September 2014 03:36:14 PM
I got the impression from the previous post that your daughter has asked you to criticize her parenting in e-mail form which to me sounded as if you have made your opinion known to her when you don't agree with something and she has established a boundary by asking you to send it in e-mail form? I might have misunderstood your meaning?
Every change I wanted in relationship to my daughter, I made. When I made changes by setting boundaries for myself in relationship to her, the relationship shifted and became more comfortable for me. Its the same now. If I'm uncomfortable with something, I can't change her but I can change how I'm thinking, feeling and/or behaving in relationship to myself or with her. Anything I don't like is my responsibility to handle. I don't look to my daughter to make changes. I hope this clarifies my meaning? I also know that if somebody is older than me and there is something that is uncomfortable for me in relationship to them, it is my responsibility to make changes because it is me who is uncomfortable with something.
I asked my daughter what she wanted me to do with a few concerns I have that directly impacted my granddaughter. I did not state them directly, but metaphorically knocked on what felt like a closed door to me, to see if it was safe to come in and share a couple of things that were bothering me about her actions with hervdaughter. Here's one example: My granddaughter impulsively put a piece of peppermint candy in her mouth around dinner time at the park one night that I had told her to put in her pocket for later. When her mom discovered that she had the candy in her mouth at a time when she wasn't supposed to be eating it, she set a consequence.
My granddaughter had to eat dinner in her room that night instead of with the family. She was also given spicy food to eat, that her mom picked up at a Taco Bell on the way home, apparently intentionally because she knows her daughter does not like spicy food at all. The only alternative was going hungry. I find this punishment somewhat bizarre and a bit harsh for the "crime" and was concerned that this type of consequence--especially if it occurs frequently--could cause my granddaughter to feel shamed, which I have learned often leads to a poor self image as well as other complications In the psychological development of a child. I have not addressed this with my daughter though because I did not feel that her response allowed for it. I have seen the mom give the kids smoothies or mints after soccer practice at the same time my granddaughter popped the candy mint in her mouth.
i am very challenged with learning to separate what is--and what is not--my business when it comes to my granddaughter.
I like Jerry F.'s posting that he asks God to "Place me where you want me and tell me what to do" when he feels tempted to try to take control of something.
That's been a hard thing for me, too. Separating what is and what is not my business. What you describe to me is concerning and yet I also don't know if this is a one-time action on the part of your granddaughter or if she is one who likes to negotiate and/or push the edge of the envelope often? I also don't know her age. It appears to me from the way your sentence reads that your daughter was supporting your telling your granddaughter "No," and her going ahead and eating the candy anyway?
-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 13th of September 2014 08:36:39 AM
