Perceptions of the past getting in the way... - Al-Anon Family Group

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Perceptions of the past getting in the way...

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

It is different but I have rebuilt my relationship with my son. I had boundaries around his behaviour, like if he was abusive or rude, I told him it was unacceptable and I would leave the room or house if need be if it continjed and then I followed through, he did get the message. I also dont offer advice if I can help it, I listen and offer encouragement. Ours is a relationship that is distant but its the best I can do. We now show courtesy and respect to each other but his disease and mine has been a barrier and until he gets to the point that he seeks help then thats it, he doesnt have it to give.

Im not sure being close to an alcoholic is possible really. It doesnt fit with the disease, so unless they are dealing specifically with the isms then I dont see how they get past their ego, immaturity and the rest that goes with it to form close, intimate genuine relationships. My ex was good at giving the minimum or just what you wanted to hear but the motive was about him having peace to drink or peace to not deal with himself. Hes in aa so maybe a close relationship with someone will be possible for him, I hope so, it will never be with me.

as for him having secrets in his past, the wanting to know may be the thing to deal with. What are your motives for wanting to know? Will it make you feel better or worse? Will it help you have serenity or give you reason to be angry and have resentments? Do you feel it will put it to bed so you can work on the future? I remember feeling that way, that need to know and it never done me any good. Hes an a, they behave badly, if hes active or untreated hes most likelygoing to behave badly again. Well for me its as simple as that, accepting it is different. We want to believe there is an answer but maybe it is just what itis In this moment and looking back or forward is a n ightmare that cant be changed anyway.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Here is my experience. Throughout our marriage we had many counselors, none had the experience necessary to deal with substance abuse, therefore, as I look back, their counsel did me more harm than good. It was not until we saw a seasoned addiction counselor that I felt, finally, this gal gets me, gets the marriage, gets the disease. I was validated in my inner knowing that I could not be intimate, in any way, with my husband unless I was ok continuing to betray myself and paying the price for that betrayal. In the beginning I did not know that not only did he need to quit the substances, he needed recovery before I could begin to step into a place of possible intimacy. I did not know what I did not know until I worked my program and he worked his program. As our brains cleared up (and I did see him like someone with a brain injury) and we unwound from the effects of this disease, I began to see possibilities.

Milkwood, I am going out on a limb here and I acknowledge I don't have all of the pieces. From what I know of you and what you have posted, your counselor is asking you to do something that your inner self knows is bogus. This is your dilemma. Knowing any of his secrets will not help you be more trusting. His commitment to his recovery and his integrity, will. The drawing of the line in the sand, really, is standing strongly in what you will and will not live with for your recovery, integrity and congruence. Hugs to you...

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

El-cee, thank you - I really appreciate the questions that you have raised and I'll give them a lot of thought. I know that they will help me to know my own mind a little better. I can relate to your comment about 'giving the minimum'.

Paula, I could hug you! In fact. ((((((Paula)))))). Thank you for going out on that limb. Your line about seeing commitment to his recovery and integrity is spot on - that was part of the 'need to talk' that initiated my self pity and the tears that followed. Thank you so much. My brain gets knotted sometimes and I really appreciate the help of others.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

It is easy to get knotted up...I get where you are, it is a confused hell.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I have enough trouble remembering my own past, Milkwood. I have learned that I truly can't share much on a feeling level with active or dry As or others who can't or don't want to feel their feelings or express them. They simply can't go there in my experience. As an ACOA close to me once said: "Keep your feelings to yourself. You shake people up with them." It wasn't until I was led to a group of folks who did look at, name and feel their feelings that I was truly allowed to express myself on a feeling level with others who did the same. There is a lot I truly don't want to know about others' activities prior to recovery work because much of their shares are more than I can take in sometimes. I once suggested to a young adult who entered recovery and wanted to share everything with his Mom who continued to break down that perhaps it was best if he recognized his parents were not rocks and it was better to share some of his story with his sponsor in AA/NA. I also wouldn't choose to share some of what is true for me with some people close to me because it truly would harm them - not because I did anything directly that affected them - but the knowledge of my pre-recovery days would impact them negatively on an emotional level and most of it truly isn't their business. It is mine, my HP's and my sponsor's or other good person who has no emotional investment in me.

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm going to send you a PM to a link which I found very helpful when I was constantly thinking about the past and my AH wanted a 'fresh start', it really helped me to see that I had to listen to my inner voice, to what God really wanted for me and for me to understand that I shouldn't give myself to someone who was not a safe person. Active alcoholics and dry alcoholics without a program are not safe people to me. I love what Paula said and I know that if I feel pressured from someone else, I don't have to bend to that pressure. I can take my time and do what feels right for me. HUGS!

Hullibee · Senior Member

I'm still really new to the program but I just wanted to say one thing about your question. When my AH was going through the program and working it real hard he got to steps 8 and 9 and that's when he wanted to share with me how he had harmed me. I was so unaware of the things he had done behind my back that I felt awful when he confessed. I see from the step that they make amends except when it harms yourself or others. I think this is BIG. It's one thing to confess the hurt quite another to give sorted details. Frankly I really didn't or don't (because he's actively drinking) need to know.

Hope this helps. As for intimacy I believe each person has to face that issue based on their own heart and experiences. I am trying to rekindle my marriage and I want the intimacy. Every situation is different.

thanks, Ellen.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Grateful, I like the sound of those people who feel their feelings! And thank you for the reminder that not everyone can be a rock. Funny, I've never thought of my feelings as 'shaking people up' but I guess that perhaps they could, regardless of my intentions. Ohhh noooo, egg shell alert

Hullibee, I'm sorry, it sounds as if those steps hurt you. I'm sending you hugs (((((Ellen)))))) and warmth to help with the kindling!

Flower49 · Senior Member

I don't have much to offer as we have not yet started marriage counseling, but I know that my own counselor made the very suggestion that I also in her words lay down my sword and create a fresh new beginning. I struggle with that quite a bit because lots of his "isms" are still in full force. I am trying though and I also told her that if I don't feel it's right, I won't do it.

I am extremely worried about the intimacy part because he has been so mean and ugly about that, I don't feel confident in myself in that area any more, but right now he has a restriction on none of that and isn't home so I don't think on it too much, I do know however at times I feel irritated when he wants to hold my hand or kiss or hug....it feels so weird and I don't know if it's fake.

I know for a fact that my ideas on reconciliation and his are so far apart on the spectrum that I have stopped discussing how we are even going to work on anything, until he is out of the 1/2 house and we can actually start with a marriage counselor. I so agree with Paula that my AH's commitment and integrity on working his recovery diligently when he is not being told to by his handlers will allow me to give more in the area of reconciliation. I won't let the past re-haunt me in my not taking my recovery first and that boundary is there to keep me safe from his recovery, the possibility of his relapse or white knuckling it through.

My AH has dropped hints of him doing his amends step etc. and quite honestly I hope he doesn't tell me all his dirty little secrets, I am fine with generalities in that area because I don't need anymore pain than I already have handed to me, however I will keep an open mind and actually will listen, not to the secrets but more as how they are delivered because I always know when he might be faking it to look good. Thank you for your post, you gave me a few things I need to contemplate on.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Of course you feel uncomfortable to be intimate with someone you don't know what they are really thinking! If one has secrets, then who knows what they really think of you.

And here you are expected to be naked in every way with them? Not me that is for sure.

If he is still keeping secrets, then counseling is really a wash. Like you said with out a sharing of talking and honesty what does one have?

Is it becuz he is not on a program of recovery?Does he go to AA?

If he is willing to work on it, then i invite you to be honest and tell him you need closeness in other ways before you can be physical with him. You need to know he loves you as a wife and tells you everything.

if that is true.

Maybe start dating, movies then talk about them after. Just date for awhile till you are comfy, if you want to hold hands do, if you want to kiss, do. I don't believe making love should be pushed! It has to come natural to both to mean anything or after ya feel empty and alone. I am sharing when I was in this dilemma I felt raped. Was horrible.

My counseling style is very different. I base it on reality and my experience. I know I have to be ready and wanting something! If there is no intimacy with out sex, there is not going to be any doing it, and I sure would think everyone would feel empty. My experience.

I cut it totally off with someone I still very much love. He chose his family, kids and grand kids over me. stopped his divorce. calls me. it was like too much work to even talk to him. would not flow freely. why? becuz we do not share any intimacy like caring, sharing, helping each other anymore. so I told him not to call me unless he was free.

hugs!

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Sometimes I need to hear concrete examples..it helps me process. These are two true examples from my life that were perceived to be amends. The first was an amend that I felt, the second was a confession to ease guilt. 1. I was being selfish when I spent so much time at Deb and Jacks house to drink leaving you with the kids. I am so sorry. 2. There was a time in Ky, when I went to a strip club and had a lap dance. The first one opened my heart, the second one pissed me off and left me feeling sick. I trust how I feel and I know when someone is sincere or if there is another agenda. My head wants to believe what I hear yet when I don't feel it, I say to me " whoa!".

The first ex helped to build intimacy, the second one hurt intimacy. Maybe I got off topic a little?

-- Edited by PP on Thursday 4th of September 2014 05:41:45 PM

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