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AH and I sat down this AM to go over my 'letter' that I gave him where I explained what our reality is and I was as honest and gentle as I could be. He took that as a door to say that we need to separate because he said I'll never be able to trust him and that I'll never NOT fear him and/or his actions. I told him I knew about the drinking this weekend and he admitted it wasn't his shining moment but he also didn't seem willing to commit to AA again. Honestly, I think he just wants to be free to do what he wants and wants a woman to support him in doing so. He even said he wanted a woman to hold him, to touch him, and to support him. I said I did support him for years, but that I never held him accountable and I went around fixing things for years for him. He said he's tired of coming behind our son and that since the day our son was born, he was never a priority to me.
All in all, it was a good conversation except where it came to talking about some financial stuff. He wants us to sell the house without investing in it, and I want to put some money into it to fix it up to make it easier to sell and faster to sell, too. He wants to buy a fixer upper soon and use the money for that??? The man doesn't know a thing about fixing anything, so I'm not sure where this is coming from but I didn't fight him on it because I never know if he's capable of following through anyway.
He wants me to put our son in school for junior and senior year, he told me he won't pay spousal support even though he loves me, but that he's willing to split our assets in half. That was so magnanimous of him. Some of what we talked about made sense but some of it was wrapped in crazy and I remember saying, "You may be right" a few times.
He also told me that knows he'll never get another DUI again and that he's got it under control. I said, "Really? Funny, because that's what you told me before you got the first DUI." He seems to have a short term memory problem, lol.
He tugged at my heart strings and he told me that AA and his therapist both say different things. AA says to not make any changes but his therapist told him to stop being a doormat. I know he deserves a real relationship if that is what he wants. He pretty much told me that he's not looking to change much more and that it's obvious that I can't trust him as he is today. And, he's probably right. My financial fears are in full blown heightened mode and my fears for my son, as well. I want to make sure that he gets the help he needs to succeed and that he can move forward in life as a capable adult some day. I can only turn this all over to God and pray that His will be done.
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
Oh, I love that, you may be right, such a dignified response. Im sorry its got to this but you sound strong and youve got your higher power. The uncertainty is scary but I found that there was even more certainty or stability living on my own despite the fears around money and other things. I also found that everything fell into place just in the nik of time. I also found that my children take the lead from me and if im ok then they tend to be ok too.x
Hi, Bonnie: I don't know what the divorce laws are in your State? I also don't know what is best for you or for your son. I do know that your AH can want what he wants and that doesn't mean - as you know - that the judge will agree. Although he seems to be thinking well, he isn't thinking well. He's drinking again and thinking he can control it which is the disease talking. As far as his wanting a real relationship, that isn't going to happen until he sobers up, stays sobered up and works the program for quite some time. There might be a woman come into his life and I doubt that will last. He also is saying one thing today and if he's anything like my As, that will all change tonight, tomorrow or within 20 minutes of your conversation. I don't know what you will decide to do on your behalf in this situation and I'm in support of you no matter what. If it is God's will for you to make some changes, you will know what you need to know when you need to know it. Fear always accompanies change and faith is the antidote. I'm glad you've turned this over to your HP and are open to hearing the next steps you can take in this process if you want to be separated from your AH.
Sounds like you are pretty calm about the separation. That's good. Your AH sounds like mine. On one hand they make sense, then they say crazy stuff, then they have a dream about fixing something which will probably never happen. Then the crazy therapist tells him HE is the doormat. What a joke. They also feel second to the kids because in actuality, they are the ones that are babies and wish we would coddle them and maybe even rock them to sleep. That's what I asked my AH one time..."You are acting like such a baby. Do you want me to rock you to sleep??" Sorry if I am being too harsh. But this guy sounds just like mine. You are strong, hang in there. You can do it
Andromeda, I am praying for you. I know that our HP will bless you with the strength to get through this. It would be easy if we could hold a mirror up to our As and show them what we see. All we can do is help ourselves. You are doing that by taking care of yourself and your son. And, you are so right about turning it over to God and may his will be done.
I am praying God will give you comfort in the days ahead.
((Andromeda))
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Look for the rainbow after the storm, and I'm sending you a double dose of HOPE. H-hold O-on P-pain E-ends
Praying for you bonnie, but also happy for you in some ways as these fears have kept you imprisoned too long. Scary, but this is growth you need to do...Love and support here...
It sounds like you are dong well considering. I don't know what state you are in; but in VA alimony is non-negotiable UNLESS you choose to not get it. I did take a cash settlement instead, but alimony is paid here so the paying spouse has zero say in this matter. My atty. advised me against taking this "deal" but I did it anyway. I need to move on.
If you haven't consulted w/ an atty. it would be worth the $ to find out what the law says, and not depend on other people, or your spouse to tell you what they think the law is.
All the best to you as you go though this process. Keep it simple and don't trust anything that is not in a legal format & signed. Nothing else is admisable in court.
Blessed, I do have an attorney and I've discussed the details with her in the past. In AZ alimony is not a guarantee but since I've been dependent on my spouse for over 15 years, he will most likely have to pay something.
Honestly, I'm doing fine. I have to make sure I have my head screwed on straight because I know AH and I know that he can go from being amiable to being a complete jerk in 10 seconds flat.
As a matter of fact, here's something from earlier today: He told me this AM that he was NOT planning on going on his sales incentive trip to Aruba in October and that his boss was upset with him over this and how it doesn't look good for him to go without his spouse so he chose to stay home. Fast forward to this afternoon and he texts me and tells me that he booked the trip and then told me that I'm welcome to come along since I deserve this trip, too. Ummm, hadn't we just talked about separating and a possible divorce just 7 hours prior? CRAZY TRAIN!!! I respectfully declined when I really wanted to text back, "WTF?" Anyway, he may change his mind by tomorrow, he may go out and buy his dream home fixer upper, or he may just sit around and drink. Who knows! All I know is that I just have to keep doing what I'm doing. Good record keeping with our homeschooling, getting the finances in order, fixing what needs to be fixed around the house, and working my program as best as I can. One day at a time!
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
I used to have long, laborious conversations with folks who were or had been drinking. I can't tell you how many hours I spent thinking we were on the same page and so sure I had been able to say what I meant, meant what I said without saying it mean with no argument on their part and both of us ending the conversation with a hug, a handshake or head nods. Then, the next hour or day would come as it has with you. Good that you are going to stay true to yourself and your own plan for moving on. He won't be consistent and you can be. (((B)))
Thanks everyone! The craziness, I'm sure, has just started so I'm focusing on keeping my head screwed on straight and just doing the next right thing. The finances must be put in order first so I can evaluate what we've got and where it is. I really need to call the lawyer to find out about whether it's best for me to take half his 401K or if I should negotiate and just keep the house and then sell it and keep the proceeds while letting him keep his 401K. The amounts are the same but I wouldn't be able to touch retirement money until I'm 59 without penalties to the IRS. Yet, if I sell the house and don't re-invest the money I'd have to pay capital gains taxes and I need to work some numbers to see which one is best for both of us.
I'm thinking I might also need to talk to a CPA, LOL! Lots to think about.
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
Good luck to youI can imagine you're overwhelmed with all the details right now, but it sounds like you're thinking really clearly and standing up for yourself and your son, and your needs now and in the future. I really hope that once the dust has settled your life will be so much happier and more peaceful. Actually, I'm sure it will be!
I hope you were able to talk to your atty and you are absolutely right what is true in the AM is not necessarily true in the PM. I have really come to a place to recognize when and where to engage and when and where to just let it go. It is going to be what it's going to be and believe me when I say 1/2 the time they don't remember anything anyway. At least that is true in my case.
Hugs and praying for you .. hope everything is ok tonight and you are well.
S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Your husband also is mentally unstable and he would be the type to say "We are separating!" just to get a rise out of you - thinking that this would scare you and punish you so that when he acted "nice" later you would be so relieved and just let it drop. Or perhaps he scared himself with the talk and wanted to revert back to status quo. That would by my guess.
Until you actually initiate the separation with actions, I'm betting he will do nothing but talk.
Mark, that's what I kind of figured. He's been obsessing over our finances this week. Asking me all kinds of questions. Turns out he hadn't looked at any of the checking accounts for at least 6 months. Now, he's all interested and he's asking about our stock accounts and what changes I've made and what we're invested in, etc. UGH....it's driving me crazy. I finally told him to just look it up for himself, he has the passwords. Quit bugging me about it, LOL.
I don't mind status quo as it gives me more time to fix up the house, pay off a few credit cards, and get things squared away for the future. I've gotten used to how we live and it's not too bad considering what I know it could be. Yes, I want better in the future but so much of my time is taken up right now with child rearing, health issues, taking care of schedules and schooling, etc that I don't mind just 'waiting' and being patient. If he wants that 'supportive' woman to hold him and love him and touch him, then he can file the divorce papers himself and move on. When he said he wanted a supportive woman, I said, "So, you want me to support your bad decisions and be OK with you drinking and driving? Is that it?" He didn't say anything and I knew I had my answer.
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
(((Bonnie))) you are doing great. I have to add these little emoticon ..sometimes I do this when I watch, listen to people around me and that is all the response I need!
Bonnie, I am fairly new here, but I do pay attention to what everyone is writing about and I agree with Paula and everyone else .... you are doing fantastic!
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"Forgiveness doesn't excuse bad behavior, but it
does prevent bad behavior from destroying your heart". ~ unknown
Bonnie-So much of your story parallels mine right now. I totally know your fears and stress. You sound like you are working a good program. Hang in there and keep up the good work! I will keep you and your son in my prayers. Your HP is with you every step of the way.
Andromeda, its the waiting that poisoned me, made me bitter. What are you waiting for may I ask? My sponsor told me something that keeps coming back in my mind. She said, its later than you think. In my own opinion as long as your not waiting to live fully then waitings ok.x
-- Edited by el-cee on Saturday 6th of September 2014 05:24:55 AM
It sounds like you are dong well considering. I don't know what state you are in; but in VA alimony is non-negotiable UNLESS you choose to not get it. I did take a cash settlement instead, but alimony is paid here so the paying spouse has zero say in this matter. My atty. advised me against taking this "deal" but I did it anyway. I need to move on.
If you haven't consulted w/ an atty. it would be worth the $ to find out what the law says, and not depend on other people, or your spouse to tell you what they think the law is.
All the best to you as you go though this process. Keep it simple and don't trust anything that is not in a legal format & signed. Nothing else is admisable in court.
We are homeschoolers as well, and I sacrificed a lot in order to keep doing what I felt God called me to & we finished. In our state they also consider my 15 years at home, the loss of income and experience in the work place, helping advance his career during that time (he finished school and doubled his salary). I moved 3 times in order to advance his career. Praying you get a good judge that sees all that. The Judge is the only person that matters in all this. I was advised to NOT TALK to my AH and negotiate deals; but let the atty do it. Of course I know part of this is financial, but honestly nothing said in a conversation, a text or an email is admisable in court so there is no point in having false hope. If he agrees to something, write it up and have him sign it. That is legally binding. Mine would not sign something after he just said he would do it. That speaks volumes. I made that mistake when he said I could take some $ out of savings, I did, and he had a fit saying he never said that and I was just grabbing $. The only thing he has signed is HIS counter offer to our PSA and it was extrememly lower than 50/50 w/ minimal alimony. I did not sign that, of course, and we are countering that. For instance he gave me regular IRAs (not Roth) so later I would have to pay taxes. That is something the atty. picked up on. And he could only can get 80% of the value of the house in a loan so I was supposed to just eat 10% of the equity (half of the other 20%) because he couldn't get a loan. My atty. said, "I don't care where he gets the $ from, sell the house." He also has an income that comes w/ the house along w/ his regular salary, as we rent a basement appt. So, it is an income property of which I get nothing. I would have stayed in the house for that deal, but he wouldn't budge. Our finances look good on paper, but I need $ in hand; equity and retirement funds don't pay for groceries. But, I managed all that for 15 years, and think I should be fairly compensated. He made the $; and I properly managed it w/ no help from him. So a true 50/50 is fair.
Keep your head on straight, and don't get sucked into frivilous conversations. Let the legal process play out. Much of this stuff will never be heard in court so there is no reason to even add that stress to your life.
I feel like I am reading my own life. For all the years I managed the $ I would give him a montly report, and he would put it aside. He never opened his paystub and didn't even know what he made. But, in the past few months prior to me leaving he kept asking questions. I would give answers, which were never good enough but there was no other answer. He could also go online and look, but he wanted to stand over my shoulder as I pulled up whatever he wanted and he looked on. I did not do that but told him he could look it up himself. He threatened me that if I didn't do as he asked there would be consequences. That consquence was that he closed down the join checking acct and opened his own and redirected his check to that acct. When I followed suit by putting in his name everythiing that was in my name (as I could not pay those w/o his check) he got furious. He was keeping the house (this was not discssed - I was told) so the ultilies would not be in my name if he was living there. He wanted me to sit and go through every file and tell him every bill, what I did, how I did it, who, when, where, how, etc. This progresed for the worst daily. He wanted a smooth transition to singleness so his life would not be disrupted. My transistion is not seamless, but its all about him.
I am proud of you; you are smart and strong. Keep your head about you and you will do fine. Sorry for the too long reply. Your story is so similar to mine, I feel as if I could have written it.
Blessed, so wonderful to put a face to your name!!!
Well, he is doing what he always does now: acting nice and texting me (when my son and I are were out with friends late), "You guys OK?" Now, last weekend we were driving 8 hours on dangerous highways to Albuquerque, NM and he NOT even once texted us to see how we were doing or if we got there safely. All of a sudden, he is concerned and thinking about us.
The other day he told me that he had prayed and asked God to make me less fearful and less angry. Oh man, it was hard to keep my mouth shut and not say, "Maybe you should have prayed for God to remove your defects of character so that you can become a more trustworthy person to your wife so that your behaviors don't cause her fear and anxiety and anger?" AARRRGGHHHH!!!
El Cee, I am not waiting for much at this point. I need to get the house ready for sale and I talked to my pool contractor and we're going to scale down the 'fixes' and NOT do a complete remodel. He's going to make it pretty and acceptable so that we can still sell it fast without spending a ton of money.
Yesterday, AH and I were talking (he's all of a sudden Mr Friendly) and he mentioned that we should get the water softening system installed into the house. Hmmm? This, coming from the person who wants to buy a fixer upper, who wants me to NOT spend money on this house and was adamant about it 3 days ago, is now ready to throw over a thousand dollars into something that we won't benefit from because we won't be living here much longer!!!
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
. I have to add these little emoticon 
..sometimes I do this