The material presented
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Ok...so I went to an AA meeting last night and the topic was "resentments" and how to deal with them. This is a very common topic in AA. I think it's common in Alanon too but not so much because for A's it takes some sort of "uncovering" and humbling to come to the realization we have been carrying around resentments and are negative people. With alanon, I think most people come in way more aware of resentful feelings (especially towards their qualifiers). In AA, most folks seem to voice resentments that they are annoyed with the rest of the world and that they catch resentments when people don't do things their way. I relate to that sort of. In alanon, I hear more that resentments are due to being disappointed and let down by others, feeling undeserving and slighted at the same time, and trying to compensate by doing so much for others and not getting it back in return. I also had this going on in spades.
Anyhow, one of the suggestions for dealing with resentments is "to pray for the other person." I remember being told this by folks in AA when I did have resentments (particularly one towards an old boss and one towards current husband's exboyfriend that used to live in this house when we started dating). I tried to pray for them and it made me think about them more, obsess about them more, and spend too much time thinking about them, ruminating, and not enough time on making my own life better.
I shared in the meeting that healthy self-care, self-focus, and doing things that made me feel good about myself were what stopped me from being a bitter, angry, depressed, and resentful "have-not" person. People listened, but this was not the general AA sentiment which is that doing service and caring about others is the way to rid self of resentments.
I thought about this and was like "WTF?! Why am I different? Where is this coming from? Why am I more about self-nurturing, self-care, treating yourself with loving respect, detaching from people who irk you and rob you of serenity?" You all see where this is going I bet. Shock of lightning! It comes from alanon. Not an all together bad revelation.
My program truly is a mixture of both AA and Alanon now and some tools work better for me than others from the respected programs. It was an interesting revelation though. I feel kind of sad for AA's that do not avail themselves of alanon because I think they may never get these specific tools that are so useful.
I know was not that different than the average drunk but maybe I was a little different in terms of that I cared about myself far less than others. I was still working as a counselor and trying to help others even as a drunk. However, I was very needy and clingy, and relationship dependent though and had terrible self-esteem and I thought I was weak on the inside....I drank to self medicate that, depression, and emptiness. When I look back, I see now that I really was a complete mixture of alcoholic/alanon needing/codependent.
At first when I ventured over to this board (like 3 or 4 years ago now) from the AA board, I didn't "get" this and was really opinionated (even more so than now...yes...believe it). I remember going back to AA and saying "Those alanon folks let themselves get treated like garbage and come back for more!" Jerry F. told me to keep coming back here and that he was basically raised up by alanon women (reraised in adulthood). He shared that the women here (and men too) are not weak but some of the strongest on earth, especially after really working the program for a while. I find this to be so true now and do feel grateful for these healthy role models. Before....I was clueless that this was all about a process of learning self-care, modeling it for each other, creating a giant pool of love and caring and our fellow alanoners can take from it and then do what they need to do in their own relationships to make themselves happy, little by little until they are free from the bondage and hurt of being with a drunk. I didn't see how alanon was about learning to be your best friend and take care of yourself. I didn't understand how I could be both selfish (typical A) and too focused on other people (typical Alanoner) at the same time...yet that was me. In sum, I was all out of balance and I needed this to grow further and be comfortable with myself.
Still a work in progress, but I have some clarity now on why I came here. I needed something. I got it, and I continue to. Thanks for letting me share this.
So much to think about there! I really appreciate this view from the AA side which is also a view from the Al-Anon side. This is really helpful. I'm going to go have a long think about this.
(((Mark))) What a beautiful , thoughtful , insightful, honest, deep review of yourself and your AA and AlAnon process. Thank you for being here and sharing the journey.
Thank you for the share about your experience in both programs and your growth. In my groups, there have been people in AA who joined Al-Anon. Most came in wanting us to do it the way they do it in AA. The Blue Book got thumped often for us to read and learn from because that had all we needed to know and we should go by that. Brash, opinionated, demanding and sure us Al-Anonics need to learn from them because they know the right way to "do the program," carrying many axes to grind against those in Al-Anon who represent their parents, spouses or girlfriends to them. It has always been a joy to me to experience my brothers from AA (and it usually is men who come to us from the AA program) grow if they begin to apply the Al-Anon program to their lives, too. I can always tell a healing double-winner in a group even if I'm new to the group because the rest of the Alanonics always stop and truly pay very close attention to what the healing double-winner has to say. They are the real deal to me. They are honest about what is really going on in the person with the disease so that those of us who are strictly Al-Anonics can understand what we may never understand without them. They also become an example of the growth we Al-Anonics can experience by practicing our program in earnest and taking our focus off the As in our lives. They also start making living amends in the meetings and outside of it when they hear the stories of the mothers, wives, girlfriends, children and husbands of As - also an example to us. We get to watch them work out of holes that were disease created and experience their gratitude for being given one more day to live and to let live. That, too, is a help for us.
I'm glad you joined the Al-Anon board, Mark. I'm glad other double winners have also joined the fellowship in our groups. The hope you represent for me and the service you provide is priceless. Thank you.
I did want to add something about praying for others. I truly believe that prayer is meant to change us and not the other person. Maybe that is exactly what has happened for you and for many of us, Mark? We prayed for others and in that action, we were changed?
-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 14th of August 2014 08:35:19 AM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 14th of August 2014 09:04:08 AM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 14th of August 2014 10:28:51 AM
Thank you so much for saying out loud that the approach of 'praying for those' who hurt us doesn't work for everyone. I have a long way to go yet but I hope to be as good at self-care and nurturing as you have learned to be.
Pink, you are telling my story. I belong to AA, NA, Alanon, and ACA. I am 11 years clean and sober, but when dealing with my family of origin I was unable to maintain my emotional sobriety no matter how much I prayed for my toxic family members, and I do love them all dearly. It seems to me, and this is just me, that addiction as well as codependency stems from dysfunction/addiction in the family of origin. This designation is not clearly defined in AA. I was just told to turn it over, and I tried. I did not know how to return the focus to me due to ingrained patterns from my past. I am learning, slowly and through the steps, how to take care of me and that my obsession with others, feelings of shame and guilt, attempts to fix or control are identical addictions to taking a drink. Identical in that I attempt to use things outside of myself to escape my feelings, be it drugs, people, the computer, or whatever. My family of origin did not have the tools to face their feelings, they used addiction and control to cope, so I had no healthy pattern to refer to and instead internalized what I grew up with. I need all the help I can get. I am grateful there is a path created by others like me that I can follow.....thanks for all your shares...
First, I will say that running after 2 toddlers for several days, I am tired...a capital T in HALT, so my thought processes are a bit dulled. I will also think about this more. I continue to appreciate what you, Jerry, my husband and others have offered to me from the "other side". As a result, I can see more clearly how judgmental and arrogant I can be, how my addictions show up and what they do for my thinking. I also see how al anon could be of benefit those A's who have not had the experience in al anon. Speaking of arrogance, I believe that praying for another I feel resentment towards is arrogant. It works best for me to address me...I usually ask to see the person or situation in a different way. If I invoked anger/ resentments in another and they said " I will pray for you". I would be tempted to say something I cannot type here.
Thank you for this insightful, thought provoking post.
I see a lot of myself in that too, thank-you for sharing it
__________________
If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
Thanks for sharing that, Mark, because I always wondered how the programs differed and what I was missing when I observed them from both and insider and outsider perspective. My sponsor has many times said that my own AH probably needs both programs and your post really clarifies to me why, LOL.
I really like what Paula said above, too, about what her response would be to someone who said, "I will pray for you" if it was someone she invoked into anger or resentment. I never thought about that one, either, but I can see that the best way to handle it would be to address ME, not them, and ask to see the situation differently. My sponsor has said this to me in round about ways before but it wasn't until I read through this thread that I understood it.
Thanks everyone for sharing!!!
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
I agree about praying causing too much thinking about the other person whom we have resentments toward. Maybe a quick prayer is enough, and no ruminating about them. There was a woman on the news talking about her mental illness and she said self care was the cure. Loving yourself, meditating, exercise, etc. I agree about self care.
I find this very interesting. My AW has been sober for 9 months, in recovery for 8 1/2 or them. She now does not permit herself to lose serenity. And she drags me kicking and screaming along sometimes.
Example: We had a pop-up travel trailer that needed to be sold, we weren't using it anymore. I didn't want to sell it however, because I had not maintained it well and didn't want to have to face up to that, either with her or with me. I didn't want to broach the subject for a long time, because I was afraid she would beat me over the head with it. So I did my typical stick my head in the sane and hope it goes away act. Meanwhile, she became an alcoholic and then went into recovery. She broached the subject of selling the trailer, told me that it really didn't matter that it had problems, we would just get less money for it. We ended up finally selling it and getting it out of our lives, and through it she exhibited the stronger recovery IMO, I just held on and was amazed.
So, after AA for a few months, to me she seemed to have become focused on self-care, even more so than me, because without it she would go back to drink. Maybe that is because she is an ACOA as well.
Mark, thanks for the share, I will have to ask the wife about this. It is a biggie for her, and now I am curious about how she has become focused on self-care when AA seems not so much to do this.
This is such a hugely interesting and insightful post. Even though my mother and brother are both recovering alcoholics (for 30ish and 12ish years, respectively) and are still in AA, I don't know all that much about the specifics of the program or its guidance. Actually, I kind of discounted it, even though it helped both of them so much. It certainly never occurred to me that Al-Anon would have such a different focus. But, of course it makes sense: In broad strokes, As are selfish, and Al-anoners need to be more selfish. So, the self-work they need to do to get closer to a neutral state is very different. But, not necessarily at odds.
Also interesting: the comment, above, that perhaps the prayer changed you in some way. Meditation (and, by extension, I suppose, prayer) has been shown to re-map the neuron paths in the brain, so I'm sure it did change youwhether it seemed to "help" or not.
I always really enjoy your posts. Yes, you're opinionated, but so rational and sort of wise. Good work in the multiple programs, and thanks so much for your contributions here. And, congrats on your marriage!
Thanks pinkchip, Ive been to a few open meetings with aa and alanon speakers and the aa members share is always interesting for me because it is so different. Its like alcoholism is a family disease and is experienced very differently for each person.the alcoholic seems unscathed in ways that the alanoner is damaged and vice versa The alcoholic goes through the years in a haze, cushioned in many ways through the effects of the drink, the sober partner got the pleasure of watching the disasters and crisises unfold stone cold sober so certain symptoms must be enhanced based on each person experience.
The first open meeting I attended made me uncomfortable, the speaker and members seem to share a kind of bond based on this haze they related to amd their recovery was joyous to them due to the missed opportunities, losses, years missed, famiky lost, jobs lost etc. Like being reborn again from their own hell but a very different hell for the partner and one not fully in focus for the aa person. I remeber thinking, very early recovery mind you. That they seemed to miss the point, there felt like no true or real understanding of the damage done to the family from the point of view of other members. I will admit to thinking, they will never truly or fully know what those drinking years were really like, ever.
I love open meetings now because I feel much more part of the fellowship as a whole, like were all in it together and of course aa and alanoners are coming at it from different perspectives, how could it be any other way? I think you are unique, to me anyway. Youve got the best of both worlds, both perspectives, unlucky but very lucky in a weird way and I think thats why what you say and how you say it is spot on, you cut through the bs and hit the spot a lot of the times, yes, sometimes a bit cheeky and a bit galus but Its my kind of language to be honest.x
