first post, need courage - Al-Anon Family Group

oceanpine · Senior Member

first post, need courage

oceanpine · Senior Member

To add to my own post: I just saw this mentioned in another post: JADE = You do not need to Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain!!!

It sounds so great, but in reality, what do you do when they are throwing crazy accusations at you, and won't let you leave? Is there a helpful phrase to keep repeating? Or something to stay grounded and stay away from being sucked in to doing all the above? ugh ugh ugh

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm glad you have found us and so sorry that you're going through this.

I only have a moment to type but wanted to leave a hasty comment on some of your thoughts. I hope you can find a good face-to-face meeting in your area. Ongoing support is so helpful to all of us going through this. They say to try six meetings since they're all different. The meetings will have free literature and much wisdom. Some meetings have childcare.

If he is physically preventing you from leaving, that comes close to physical abuse and is very worrying. I'm afraid alcoholism is progressive and doesn't go backwards unless the person actively works a formal program of recovery. You've seen how powerful the addiction is, so that many people who start recovery just don't stick with it. They may start dozens of times. What I learned in my journey with my AH is not to believe that the recovery is solid until it has been a year or more of solid recovery. (He never has made it.)

You don't have to convince your A that you are justified in leaving - in fact he will 'refuse' to be convinced as a way of controlling you. Whether or not he agrees, you are entitled to leave and to keep your children safe. It sounds as if having a plan in place beforehand would be very helpful. Money of your own, a place to go (relative/friend/motel), a plan for how it's going to work. Then you can do it when you need to without being held back by logistics. You may find that you have to go when he is out of the house or passed out. You've already seen that he goes back on promises (promising to sleep downstairs and then trying not to). Alcoholism is a disease of lies, deception and false promises generally. I imagine everyone on these boards has experienced a great deal of that.

As to whether he's really drinking - I will cut to the chase and say the odds are overwhelmingly likely. I wondered about my A for years because he is a secret drinker. I stayed for far too much turmoil because I doubted myself - but eventually I had found the secret stashes and hidden bottles so many times that I saw the light. Then i knew that every time he had been a little 'off,' I had been more than right. I finally ended up saying, 'I have no way of knowing whether you've been drinking or not. But I can't take the chance. You've been behaving the way you do when you've been drinking, and I don't feel safe around that behavior. So... [then I stated what I was going to do -- leave, not ride in the same car with him, or whatever was appropriate to the occasion.' He'd try to argue but he couldn't get much traction on that argument so he'd just roll his eyes and rant about how I was crazy and paranoid etc. Ha!

I hope you'll keep coming back, and take good care of yourself and your precious little ones. Hugs.

yanksfan51 · ~*Service Worker*~

Ocean:

I wanted to respond to your subject line--you have courage, you came here, you recognized a situation, you are reaching out. You are not alone. I agree w previous post-er to keep going to the face to face meetings as well. It is great that you refuse to engage in an argument. I always love the sentence 'you do not have to attend every argument you are invited to'. It is difficult not to engage and difficult not to defend or justify because we have done that for so long. The more I workthe program the more I am learning about myself and my part, and that is very helpful. Keep coming back- we are all here with you.

Mary

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

God grant me the serenity to except the things I can not change
The courage to change the things I can
And the wisdom to know the difference

Welcome to MIP......you are not alone

((( hugs )))

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I have learned that the need to defend myself rises up when I'm feeling misunderstood or unjustly accused by people I love. I have gotten better at realizing that what most people say about me or to me about me is about them and has nothing at all to do with me. That realization has helped me drop the expectation that I will always experience myself understood and supported by people I want to be or am close to. I can validate myself without engaging in a fruitless conversation or argument. Sometimes, what others say is true about me since the truth about me isn't always pretty. I can ask myself the question: "Is it true that I am ..., ..., ...?" If the answer is yes if only sometimes, then I can agree with them interiorly or exteriorly and ask my HP to help me with that particular defect. If the answer is no, then I can ask my HP to accept them as they are now and go do something else and leave them to work out their own troubled thinking or not since the way they think is none of my business.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

((((Ocean Pine)))))

I'm so sorry that you are going through this, your story sounds so familiar. I think that it is wonderful that you are protecting your boundaries and not engaging in the arguing. There really is no need to - although it took me a couple of years to realise that one!

Please don't let someone else's words define you - you don't have to believe everything someone else is saying .

I'm sorry that your husband is going through this as well, it is a ghastly disease, but as you know he is the only one who can take action to halt it. I tried really hard to help my AH but it was only when I started to ask myself 'should I tolerate this behaviour, regardless of drinking or not' that I started to find answers that worked for me. Up until that point I had been using alcohol as an excuse for his behaviour. I think that the disease will push our boundaries until we really don't know where we are and that is why lots of meetings and talks with others who really understand have been so helpful for me. I hope that you don't mind my asking you this but I'm wondering how old your children are? How might they feel being left with their father? Is it something that you can discuss with them?

I love your name, especially since I was amongst pine trees by the sea yesterday, so here is a photo. I hope it makes you feel hugged!

For Ocean Pine.jpg

-- Edited by milkwood on Sunday 3rd of August 2014 08:45:06 AM

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

To thine own self be true You don't need proof he is drinking..he is behaving like a paranoid ass and that is enough reason to leave and give yourself some space. If it were me, I would tell my kids something like this: "your dad drinks to0 much and treats me in a way that I don't like, so I am taking some time away from him to think". Also, I would not leave my children with him, as they could become his next in line whipping posts. I know this is hard, most of us have been here. We are here for you.

-- Edited by PP on Sunday 3rd of August 2014 09:02:09 AM

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh my, milkwood...what a breathtaking picture.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Gorgeous view, milkwood! Wow, oh wow! Sure makes one viewing this realize just how small one truly is and grateful to be able to experience such beauty. Thanks for your thread, ocean. We might not have gotten to see this if you hadn't. Love how the family works together on this board.

cloudyskies · ~*Service Worker*~

Ocean, I am so sorry this is happening. Do you have family members close by or friends that you can go to for help? Find al-anon f2f meetings. They will be there to give you emotional support, and they may be able to help you relocate ( if this is your plan).

Please know that we are praying for you and keep coming back.

milkweed, I love the picture----so calming and serene.

sunrise2014 · Veteran Member

Hi Ocean, I completely understand your frustration, I have been living this nightmare for 10 years. It's natural for us to defend ourselves, especially when we clearly see the other person lacks clarity and validity. It seems easy enough, "if I just explain it in simple terms, he'll obviously see he's wrong", but not so when you're dealing with someone who is not well and manipulative. These mind games are tricky, I found myself questioning if what I knew to be right was actually wrong, thus continues and prolongs this vicious cycle of self doubt. And when we doubt our feelings, our beliefs and allow them to change us, we become more involved in this downward spiral and get stuck in the land of confusion. Remember who you are, defend yourself mindfully. He is taking a gamble and hoping by all measures that you actually believe his story, HE probably believes it, why not? It gives him a reason to continue with his behavior. My AH said I was the reason he used, said it was how I made him feel, alone, that drove him to drugs. All I can say now is, "we all make our own choices, I can't control what you do, I can only control what I do". Sometimes, when I'm accused of being a horrible wife, I simply just agree. I do not need to convince him of who I am, I know who I am and frankly he is the luckiest man to have me.

Kelly123 · Veteran Member

You know what you have to do. You just need to do it. Deep down don't we all know what we need to do, the problem is getting to the point where we are ready to just do it already. It is so very hard grappling with the what ifs of the future. If you catch yourself thinking too much about the future then stop your thoughts and think only about today.

As others have said the drinking will only get worse. Pack a bag for you , and pack a bag for each of your kids and hide them. If you need to go one night, you can just grab your bags and leave. If you leave it doesn't have to be for forever. If you never end up taking the bags, then no harm done.

They certainly don't think about our feelings when they drink so why should think about their feelings if we need a little break from the drinking. If you need a break to feel sane again then by all means do what you need to do. Only you know what is best for you and your kids.

I got this literature at a meeting once, I don't know if you have read it ..but I included it in case you haven't come across it yet. It is called Alcoholism A Merry Go Round called Denial.www.soberrecovery.com/forums/friends-family-alcoholics/137214-alcoholism-merry-go-round-named-denial.html

Best of luck to you. Big hugs

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Oceanpine and welcome again. Your post helps to bring back some lessons I learned in program that helped me to understand and also gave me alternative ways of responding. I always saw my wife as my wife and when she was drinking and using I saw here as my wife being a bitch. When I learned that my wife had a fatal incurable disease I learned to see her as a sick person and after more learning I came to understand that my wife was actually two different people...my wife...intuitive, humorous, valued employee, neat and more and also...my alcoholic/addict. I had to learn which one I was being with at anyone time in order to choose my responses while being around her. Without the lessons and new experiences I was always fearful, defensive and angry/rageful. At times it was her behavior that drove me crazy and truthfully more of the time it was my behavior and reactions that bother me more. I would violate my own value system and then end up more angry and guilty and shamed.

Alcoholism is a progressive disease and it sound like that is what is happening in your family and marriage. It also sounds like you are a newbie to recovery and newbies get hurt a lot. If you know the Serenity Prayer try saying it calmly like a mantra outside of the fear and the anger and mixed emotions...do that with relaxed breathing and away from "your alcoholic"...yeah we all have had one and some of us more than one...I'm not telling. 0

You don`t have to know if he is drinking or not...all you have to do is have a problem with the disease. Alcoholism is substance abuse and addiction means they don't have to be drinking to be under the influence of the chemical to be insane. It is said in AA that getting into our heads is like being in a bad neighborhood. I am a member of that program also, a double and the saying is right. Alcohol doesn't do nice things to our brains especially after prolonged use and abuse. Alcoholic suffer from delusions, paranoia, bi-polar disease, manic depressive breaks and more....of course we do...alcohol isn't milk, root beer or ice tea; it is a mind and mood altering chemical so if you are watching his mind and mood being altered it doesn't matter if he just had a drink...he had it maybe a day or two ago or a week ago and he is still under the influence.

Keep coming back...make this a favorite site for yourself and if you are not in the program yet...call the hot line number in the white pages of your local telephone book and find out where and when we get together in your town. More later....((((hugs)))) smile

oceanpine · Senior Member

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the thoughtful and caring responses, resources and calming pic of the ocean and pines! I have read them all a couple times and will do so again to take them in. I have a couple questions for another post. To answer a couple questions, my kids are 9 and 11. I have been attending Al-Anon meetings for 3 months. Unfortunately, there is only one a week in my town, and it is one hr before an AA meeting, the only one my AH attends. (He has choices of at least 4 mtgs a week but only goes to this one.) It works ok to leave our kids alone for half hour or so while we overlap, but it feels awkward and is a disincentive to follow up conversations with people after the mtgs. Also, with our kids home all summer, few friends and activities in a new area, and my own feeling of being wiped out, I've been back burnering it til school starts. Feels too difficult to even connect with my sponsor. In the meantime, grateful for this board!!

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Ocean just one lesson I got early on was prioritizing. I was new to Al-Anon and not new to how I was living my life by default and had to learn how to change defaults. I was suicidal when I came into the program and the entire fellowship including meetings, literature and sponsorship and group support taught me that if I didn't have the program I wasn't going to have anything else including a breath and a heartbeat. That might not be you...that is for me and so the priority became sitting and listening in the rooms of recovery. It is good that you now have MIP 24/7 so that you can keep coming back. Unless your one meeting suggest "no children" take the children and sit them where they can self entertain and keep quiet. I have a sponsee who did that with encouragement of the group. He single fathered his kids and that including bringing them to the meetings where they self entertained and also listened to the shares as their father did. Today it is amazing to me how well balanced they appear and he is so very grateful. They call me "Uncle"...indeed. Thank you God for the AFG . Keep coming back we are in support for you and those who you touch. (((((hugs))))) smile

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