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My AH and I always end up arguing certain points. I wish I didn't feel like i have to defend why I moved out over and over. he always says "You chose to move out when I was actively working a program." Well now, sounds good on his part right?? Here's what really happened. Last November he was in bed for 5 days in a row drinking like a fish. I was really worried and scared. Nothing I could do to convince him to stop. He spoke to counselors on the phone, nothing worked until he told me to take him to the hospital. He was there overnight. They told him to go into outpatient rehab. he finally decided to do that. He went for 6-8 weeks about 4 days a week for 4 hours a night. he went to maybe 2 AA meetings as well. Then he got suspended from work in January. Then he started drinking heavily in February. He ended up in the hospital again on Feb 13-14. Happy Valentine's Day! At that point, I couldn't do it anymore. Those 2 times were the WORST I had ever seen him.
Prior to these major incidents, there have been other awful things too. Police coming to the house. Physical violence. 911 calls. Just pure chaos for the most part. We argued about everything.
he calls these last 2 hospitalizations "slip ups". Slip ups??? I guess those words sound like something minor to me. This was anything but minor. He tells me now he has been sober for 100 days. Good for him. NyQuil still hangs around though. So my issue is I want to stop defending myself as to why I moved out. He knows why. He says he understands why too. But when he says I chose to leave when he was working a program it makes me want to scream!! The way I would see him working a program looks totally different than what he sees. I don't think working a program would involve 2 major hospitalizations...and also one in March after I moved out. Ugh...let my brain please stop spinning
-- Edited by Newlife girl on Thursday 31st of July 2014 05:08:47 PM
-- Edited by Newlife girl on Thursday 31st of July 2014 05:09:07 PM
I learned that no one has the power to take over my peace of mind and serenity without my permission and participation. Its okay to withhold permission and not participate. Practice, practice, practice. (((((hugs))))) keep coming back.
They are masters at keeping us hooked in. Refusing to agree about things, even perfectly obvious things, is one way to keep us embroiled in the insanity.
I remember the saying "Recovery isn't winning - it's not playing."
He wants to keep you trying (but failing) to win. When you don't play, he has no power.
Refusing to show up to the argument is one way to not play. (It has the added advantage, to those of us who are immature and smug like me, of driving them crazy.) But there's also the strategy of agreeing with them. "You left me when I was in recovery!" "Yep, a whole lot had gone on and yep, I did indeed leave when you were in recovery. Gonna go shopping now. Bye." "But you left when I was in recovery! I was doing what you wanted! I was doing it all for you! And you treated me like dirt! And..." [Silence except for the sound of your car disappearing in the distance.]
-- Edited by Mattie on Thursday 31st of July 2014 06:37:00 PM
Thanks everyone. Perfect idea Mattie. My friend tells me I give him too much power too. I guess deep down I am still trying to convince myself that leaving was the right thing. I feel guilty about it. Worried about my house. He says if I was so worried about my house not going into foreclosure I wouldn't have moved out. But I left because I knew if I didn't he would keep trying to come back into the house after I told him to go stay with a relative. In the past when I would tell him to leave, we would argue over the phone constantly then he would be back within a few days. So I walked away from my house so I could stop the vicious cycle.
My favorite slogan for when my aw was active - you dont have to attend every fight you're invited to. Plus - what others think of us is none of our business.
I find saying "it wasn't working for me" is enough. You were being true to you and that is enough. Nothing more needs to be said and you don't need any other reasons outside of "it was not working for you".
I saw a post tody, Trying to talk to an alcoholic is like trying to eat jello w/ chopsticks." LOL!
Think of that the next time you are trying to "reason" with the unreasonable. You will just laugh and walk away. If we stay, and engage, we are as crazy as they are.
And who cares who wins the fight. No one wins, really. We can't even agree to disagree. My AH opposes me even if what I am proposing is agreeing with what he asked. It is like ODD Oppostional Defiant Disorder. If I say, "I am agreeing with you" he will say, "it has to be your way, so we'll do it your way, we always do anyway." It truly is maddening. I jsut say, "great." And move on.
My AH talks in circles often changing his stance to disagree w/ me after I have agreed w/ him and he changes his view to what I originally wanted and he did not, and then argues that. It is baffling and I just stand there, speechless. I just say, "You're right." And he says, "I know." Even though during the argument he was arguing both sides. And they say we are crazy? Only if we engage.
Blessed...thank you. That's how I feel exactly. I am pretty sure my AH has ODD. He is against all authority pretty much. He is a risk taker. Oh well...
New Life...that is part of the psychological profile of the alcoholic...additionally that is also part of mine. I are one of those also. Working a program of recovery makes all of the difference in the world in how we continue to behave and have better and more acceptable outcomes not only for ourselves and also for others in our lives. One of the things I learned was that I would gain better alternatives based upon my experiences with ODD and the consequences of being a risk taker. Risk taking can cost us our lives and only one of the things that will take it is our drinking along with our defiantly oppositional belief that we are alcoholic. Good news for you is that you didn't cause it, you cannot control it and you will not cure it. If he is defaulting with ODD AND high risk taking...stay out of the blast zone cause our disease has involuntary ...and voluntary victims laying all over the landscape. Keep yourself safe. In support (((((hugs)))))
OMGOSH .. Blessed that made me LOL .. because I say dealing with my STBAX is like nailing Jell-O to a tree .. it just ain't happening.
NLG .. to thine own self be true .. I like what Grateful said .. that is one I'm going to slip into my back pocket for another day. I will go with you might be right or I'm sorry you feel that way .. I DO NOT HAVE TO J.A.D.E what I did to help ME. Justify Argue Defend or Explain ANYTHING to ANYONE .. They are NOT me .. they have not walked in my particular shoes and may find them to tight or loose for their fit.
Hugs hugs hugs .. it is hard not to want to respond to crazy with crazy .. now I can take a step back and respond at a later time.
S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I had a day exactly like that yesterday, with txt messages. Him throwing fog, twisting everything around that ever happend in our 5 yr relationship. All my fault, of course. And even though I engaged really sparsely, trying to get him back on the topic of mediation and separation agreement, I couldn't - or anyways - didn't disengage. So draining.. and had nightmares after I went to sleep.
He said that I am now "the enemy", and manipulated a friend of ours to pacify and scare me, at the same time. ---- That in itself sounds so weird. He said I wrecked "yet another summer". ... and on and on and on..
He also tells other people - our friends - that I ran off with all his money, which is absolutely not true. But he knows that being correct in money affairs is very important to me, so a way of getting back at me.
Hoping to get my backbone back today *grin - a new day...
Hoping to disengage better, see the thing through to the end, and be me again.
NLG, egocentric and childish viewpoints and statements would be common for him at this point in his recovery, even if he really was going to AA daily and not taking nyquil. You don't need to be "right" when dealing with an illogical alcoholic that is a pro at guilting people, finding enablers, and making excuses for constant screwing up. When I had 2 or 3 month sober, I also thought I deserved a medal when I was really just scratching the surface of doing the things that a mature adult does. Bottom line, there is no purpose trying to have a rational debate with a drunk or even a super self-centered recently sober one (if you could even call it that). The term we use frequently is that alcoholics who are active/on a dry drunk/very early on/not working a good program/ are like "egomaniacs with an inferiority complex." Basically, they are boastful, opinionated, whiny, needy, demanding, act like they know everything, but then act like wounded babies when you don't agree with them or they are forced to look at their functional impairments or poor behavior and choices. It is a VERY slow growing up process IF (and I repeat IF) it's going to happen for him.
Knowing this, I hope you can stop letting him and his disease affect you so personally. Detach. Prayers for you!
PC thank you so much. I am having a hard time lately dealing with his behavior. He doesn't like how I am changing and putting up more boundaries. Personally, I think you deserve a medal now for all the great wisdom you display on this forum. You have helped me so much. Thanks!
I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. Like the others said, alcoholics are good at manipulation. His objective is to manipulate you and keep you spinning. By walking away from the arguments you are taking away his ammunition. If he is actively and sincerely working his program, he's not going to let you leaving stop that. Again, he's trying to manipulate you. He probably feels threatened at the moment, because your decision to leave is upsetting his plans. That's ok, he'll get over it. You stay strong and do what is right for you. That's what I love about al-anon. It gives us the tools to do what is right for us.
((hugs NLG))
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Look for the rainbow after the storm, and I'm sending you a double dose of HOPE. H-hold O-on P-pain E-ends
