Suggestion is get involved in Alanon and slowly but steadily build a support system, activities, and hobbies that don't involve him. Spend time with your other family maybe, but also build a "family of choosing" as your support network. You could be going out with friends....You've acted like you were still married and maybe haven't expanded your network like you would have if you were truly single.

I want to share that even if he quits drinking, there is a possibility he will continue to lie, it sounds as if he has the behaviors. Even if the alcoholics aren't drinking there are always going to be things I have to deal with..people lying, peoples drama...people are affected by the disease whether they are drinking or not. The behaviors are conditioned into them usually during childhood and without recovery perhaps they can make progress but most likely not get rid of them completely. My husband has in the past been known to lie to me, he tells me now he's honest. I feel intuitively he is telling me the truth, but I'm no longer spending my days wondering what he is doing. If I do hear something that upsets me, I keep the focus on myself and the program the best I can. He is my best friend as well, I totally understand it is so hard when you love them..but it is not enough..I have to love myself more than I love him. There is nothing in the world I can do to change another human being. There is no amount of love that will change them. I agree with Pinkchip...joining alanon, doing fellowship with members, making some new friends would be a wonderful idea. Even though I am still with him, I have expanded my network. He can be a part of my life now, but not my whole life anymore. I have friends and other interests now. If it were me ...about this weekend. I would pray to my hp..and then get quiet and listen for the answer. I am hearing in your share, you possibly still want to go? I feel you can still have boundaries and go. A suggestion is if you have your own car? you could take your own car, visit your sons, him and his family for a while and leave when you are ready. Perhaps you have a lot more choices than just going or not going?? blessings on all your choices :) hugs n love~

-- Edited by karma13 on Wednesday 2nd of July 2014 12:13:47 PM

Thank you for your advice / suggestions. I don't rely on him for doing things. I have always had a group of friends and have done stuff on my own esp. when we were separated.
We currently still live together. He hasn't moved out because our one son moved into his apartment once he got married. Now he is looking for a place to move into since my spouse literally just took his clothes and came back home. Our son and his wife moved into a furnished apartment.

I will never stop loving him, aside from his drinking and what that brings, he is kind, very generous and most times thoughtful. Then there are times when his drinking clouds his judgement and he doesn't think how what he says & does impacts his wife. Funny, he hasn't done that to anyone else but me.

The picnic is a long ride away, 1.5 hours without traffic.

Still contemplating. I will pray to my HP and see what happens. Funny, my mom was an A and she and my dad didn't have these issues, same with my uncle and his wife. ( my mother's brother) Once they reached 60, they stopped drinking and basically all was good except my uncle developed cancer and passed away and my mother had Parkinson's Disease and passed away. Both in their late 70's. My dad never complained about my mother's drinking. He did his thing and she did hers BUT they still went on vacations, still went out dancing, still entertained. Then my dad was a devoted husband when she got sick.

I thought if I go to his family, does this keep showing to them that all is right with us and our marriage ? Do I not go and this is my way of letting go and moving on ?

Honestly, what does it mean to let go ? Never be in his company ? We were separated for close to 4 years and that didn't make him stop drinking. Let go of loving him ? Let go of our friendship ? OR just let go of his drinking behavior and ignore and act like all is okay ?

I don't hate him.   Buddhism helped me during those 4 years.  I became very forgiving and understanding.  Past is past.   I also started to believe in Law of Attraction.  What I put out,  I would get back.   I put out love, forgiveness, patience, understanding, etc.

I have been in counseling all this time.  She totally approves of my behavior.  As a matter of fact, when H lied to me last week, I called her and was surprised at her reaction.  She defended him.

Said, " I am not saying he should lie BUT why does he feel the need to lie to you ?  Is it because he knows you would have been upset that he didn't go to your son's house with you ?" 

That is what H said.  He knew I would be upset.  I told him that is my issue then.  All I ever wanted was honesty.  

Although I told my counselor that him being dishonest brought back fears from my past.  Her response was to let it go, that was the past.  Stop bringing up the past. 

Not sure I understand what you all are saying ?  I assume you wouldn't have been that forgiving with the cheating ?  

You ask about forgiving him for cheating. When we forgive people in our lives that have hurt us, its never about them. Its about you , us.

I am also a practicing Buddhist for 29 years, Buddhism brought me to Alanon. I try to practice both.

I too was married to an A for 26 years, been divorced the passed 8 years . A passed away last July, 58 years old, from this disease. We too loved each other very much. He also cheated and even managed to have twins with this other woman. What I have concluded for myself that booze is the other woman, dealing with the drinking is the objectivity.

All I ever wanted was the A to stop his drinking so we could have a fairly normal life. Because when he was bingeing, it was a chaos, roller coaster, insanity , hurricane ride.

There is nothing normal about trying to have a simple happy life with an alcoholic. Its to bumpy and difficult alone.

Letting go is the goal and it doesn't happen over nite. Its a process, but it begins with you and what you want and realizing that it begins and ends with your boundaries.

Your sons are your sons they will always be your sons, establishing your own relationship is important, independent of your husband if that's what you want.

Remember the world doesn't owe us anything, even when you are putting out love, forgiveness, patience, understanding. Perhaps, your expectations need adjustment.

Making good causes and good karma is always good for our life, for you never know what will come along next....probably better than we could have ever imagined.

Keep coming back, watch the miracles.

hugs, Bettina

OMG, Karma 13, Blessed, and esp. Beatrice ~ THANK YOU. Could I email either of you privately to chat ? I was in Al Anon in 2012 BUT then no one was showing up to run the meetings. I was the only one showing up. Then my dad got very sick and passed away. My AH was there for me emotionally and in all other ways. My dad loved him and my AH was there up to the last few hours of my dad's passing. My father's attitude re: my AH was this, " he never did anything to hurt me, this is your issue with him. He is still family. "

All Al Anon meetings are at night. That doesn't work for me. I check various counties, no morning ones unless I want to drive 45 minutes away. I don't. I have the books here. Then there is this forum plus my counselor.

My BF said that to me too, " what do you want to do ?"

You all don't know me very well.  Whether we were separated or not, I ALWAYS treated myself well and did things alone or with friends : movies, vacations, out to dinner, hearing concerts, mani/ pedi's....get my hair done,  the list goes on and on.

My in laws, I believe,  would have no feelings either way whether I come or not.  Like I said,  they don't know all the ups & downs except for one sister in law.  She would miss me, she told me so.  I would love to see my son plus I don't want to sit home esp. if the storm hits like it is predicted. I have sat home far too many times by myself while separated.

He and I went to our kids weddings together last summer.  So many I know who are even divorced said, " why wouldn't you go, you are the parents."   No matter what we will always be each others best friend.

My counselor said to me re: my AH ~  " think of him being sick.  would you leave him if he was sick with an illness of any sort ?" 

Alcohol has changed him.  He is not the man I married.  Was he perfect ?  NO.  Was he emotionally there for me ?  Not always 100% but over the years,  I believe once the drinking got more & more, he got less and less emotionally supportive.   Does he think of me when it is Christmas, my birthday, our anniversary ?  Yes.  While separated and now again living in the same house,  he buys me flowers, takes me out to dinner, gives me beautiful expressive cards with hand written love notes.

I was with 2 recovering A men on Monday.  They said to me, " I am sure he loves you.  Just don't focus on him or his drinking.  Focus on you.  You can't always believe what he says or does, esp. if they contradict each other because that is the alcohol talking.  Even when you think he is sober, he is not.  He will never be sober until he stops completely." 

I would like to go on July 4th but is this showing him that I am okay with our insanity life ?

Point we'll taken. Thanks. 

I didn't know that. How does it work?

In the course of my marriage my A and I saw four counselors.  All of them were intelligent, ethical, well-meaning people.  I know now that like many counselors, they had no direct experience of alcoholism and alcoholic relationships.  They just knew what they'd learned in school or picked up.  All of them gave terrible advice about alcoholism.  They simply didn't know -- they applied the principles they'd learned for non-alcoholic relationships.  Because I was early in my understanding, I believed them.  It did add extra years of grief to my life.

I'm afraid I see some signs that your own counselor may be one of those who doesn't understand alcoholism.  I'm surprised she's seen both of you separately -- all of our counselors said it was against good practice to see two people in a relationship separately.  I'm also surprised that you're urged to forget past lying when there is still present lying going on.  That's not ancient history, that's an ongoing pattern.  Last, alcoholism is not like being with someone with a disease.  It's like being with someone who refuses to treat his disease.  If you were married to a diabetic who refused to check his blood sugar levels or take his insulin, and who kept causing crises because of this, you would rightly be reconsidering whether this is a person you could have a healthy relationship with. 

Your H may love you a great deal, and/or be dependent on your relationship, but it's also important to keep sight of the fact that he's uncommunicative, distant, and an alcoholic.  In the long run, that's going to take up space in your life that could be used for more rewarding activities and relationships.  It's always wearing to be around an alcoholic.  You sound as if you have a lot of awareness and strength.  Keep on taking good care of yourself.

I was required 1 class in substance abuse for my counseling degree. That is woefully limited. I learned all of what I know from experience, AA, alanon, MIP...

cat4554 wrote:

---

I didn't know that. How does it work?

---

 In the upper left hand of this page is a link Al-Anon Group Meeting/Chat Room At the top of the page you are taken to is the hours of the meetings.  In  between meetings, and especially after meetings, there are often people hanging in the chat room just chatting.  The online meetings are pretty good, and the chat afterwards is fantastic IMO.

Kenny

Beautiful Mari1978. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.  My AH has never been abusive. Last night we had a long, sincere talk.  I cherish all my good times. Ditto on what you wrote.  The only reason I am not going is because he is spending the weekend with our son to help him with his house.  our son lives hours away. I was there last weekend.  I am ok with things. Will miss seeing the family. 

 

your heart is the most important thing, if you feel you need to stay away, buy urself some sparklers and a chocolate cake and go to town. If you want to be with your family, then be with them. If you are making the decision to have space from him, I think you should open up to your family, so you can get some support on the situation. If they know you are in such a place of pain and confusion, maybe they wouldn't be up to giving him such a casual invite to events. Whatever you decide, I hope you have a great 4th!

 

 

Okay I get to read the hindsight after thinking about all of the stuff I learned in Al-Anon and reading the responses to you.  One of the things I learned came from my sponsor..."Think of the consequence you want and then make the choice"...you did that.  You wanted to have a good time and had it and you did what was necessary to have it.  My former therapist profession kicked in awareness.   You describe where he comes from and then that he presently behaves in such the way.  He hasn't change and you haven't changed him yet you get both the good and the negative from him.  He gives you good stuff and negative stuff and not all what you want or desire.  Another thing I learned about in Al-Anon was about acceptance...the bitter with the better and that helped me to mature...to grow seeing the situation for what it was and then helping me to decide how I wanted to place myself in it.   I've have more relationships and affairs and marriages than I ever care to remember about while only one person in all of those remained the same...me which the program taught me to "look at my part in my life" and there I found reason to change.   "Expectations are future resentments" was one of the other lessons and my sponsor led me to and then taught me about killing my expectations of others.   "People will at times be un-agreeable with you and that provides no reason to return disagreement or hold resentment...forgive both them and myself (for not being adequate) and move into the light.

It sounds like you and your family are keeping the secret that there is an elephant in the living room.  It sounds like you're comfortable with that excepts when it comes to your needs; what you are missing.  One other person knows and neither of you are in program.  The program is about changing the things we can and if you are never there how do you do it.  Good that you are responding to Kenny's suggestion of on-line meetings.  That will help.  If there is something you can change about going to night meetings I suggest looking into it cause face to face meetings are awesome...not perfect...awesome.  Attending those has allowed me to come here.  If I hadn't I would have never come to learn about you or myself for that matter and this MIP family.

For me Love is always enough.  Love is the opposite of fear.  Love is the complete and total acceptance of every other human being for exactly who they are.  One name for God is Love and it is said that the will of that God is to love it with my whole mind, spirit and will and to love all others as I love myself.  I needed to learn how to love myself because loving an alcoholic/addict means coming up empty, love not returned and alcoholism isn't enough.

I hope you keep coming back.  You are worthy of love, respect and dignity and you are participating still under stress which is commitment and courage. You are love...you are enough.    (((((hugs)))))

Oh My Goodness,  Tiredtonite,  just saw your posting.  Well said.  Keep sending me message like that.  I need it. You are soo right,  I would have been punishing myself.  So glad I went.

 

 

self righteousness isn't a sin unless you disturb the peace of mind and serenity of others with it. It can come under the heading of narcissistic personality or egotism however it what works for you works...keep it in yourself and work it...don't explain it unless someone asks...just work it for yourself.  My program is righteousness for me and I walk it...I've had others in program tell me "I want what you have" and at times I have responded "you gotta do what I've done and you might not like or agree with it".  Walk your walk and talk your talk with out demanding that others do exactly as you say.  Always keep and open mind cause there is always more to learn.   ((((hugs))))

Just had to say that I called my AH at work just now to say, " Good Morning, have a nice day and I am sorry that last night I had expectations of him and it caused us to have words." His response, " don't worry, it is what it is. " Sometimes, just sometimes, my AH can be very wise and not have any expectations of anyone. If it wasn't for drinking, he would still have some relationship issues but that is because of the way he was brought up. Now, what do I do with that ? That is for me to work on. From what I have been told by recovering A and what I have read about alcoholism, it messes up your mind, your feelings / emotions and not to expect your A to be a caring, loving, supportive person. BUT what if that person had those traits without the A ??? As in my case. Now what ? I guess I accept it with no expectations or move on. Right ??

me too Paula, thanks.