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I will try and make this as short as possible. I am trying to decide how to move forward regarding a relationship that I was in for three years, but that was ended (by him) three months ago. I have been pretty devastated since then, which brought up a lot of my codependent issues that had been hiding (at least to me), such as obsessive thinking (mostly about what went wrong and how I could fix it), compulsive behaviors (mainly revolving around researching and sending him info about what I think led to our ending and ways we could solve our problems), etc. He told me the reason he was breaking up with me was because we had problems resolving conflicts (we did) and because I hadn't followed through with going to Al-Anon (that he had asked me to do one month prior) to work on my unwillingness/inability to take responsibility when I was wrong (got defensive, he didn't feel accepted, etc). He also said how he had wanted someone who was working on herself in the same way he was, through the 12 steps (although he never asked for this until the very end... and I admit, I was resistant and in denial about going to Al-Anon, mainly because I felt I had spent a lot of our relationship accommodating his wants and needs, and felt he was avoiding working on his own stuff by making it about me.. especially since I had been trying to get him to do couples counseling, which he resisted).
My ex is an addict in recovery (5 years) and is very involved in NA, and has worked hard at getting and staying clean. He is also someone that keeps people at arm's length, and doesn't have close friends or family (he grew up with alcoholic dad and neglectful mom). The closest people to him are his sponsor and a couple of friends from NA, and I was the closest person to him for the time we were together. He always made it clear that he valued his independence and didn't want to get married (had a dysfunctional marriage for 10 years, where they were both using). I was on the same page at the beginning of our relationship, but the more we fell in love and developed a good relationship, I started to want more closeness. But being codependent (and not realizing it), I dismissed my wants and needs, and let him drive the pace and closeness of our relationship, and by the end, started having resentment around it (which I am sure came out in different ways that negatively affected our relationship).
So, since the breakup, I started going to Al-Anon, not just for the possibility of us getting back together, but because I was in a lot of pain, and was more open to trying it. I have gotten a lot out of the steps, and the meetings around how powerless I am over him, and our relationship, and have done a lot of work on giving everything over to my Higher Power. Anyway, my ex and I have had contact during our breakup, mainly physical, which I realize isn't very healthy. I initially did it to see if we could get some positive feelings back between us, so that we could talk about the possibility of getting back together, but it was also a way for me to have some intimate connection time, which boosted my mood for a period of time. But then, it would lead to me wanting more from him, and would end up with me feeling hurt because he made it clear he wasn't looking to reconcile at this time, and just wanted 'no strings attached' adult time. I finally was able to set my boundaries, and say that just having the physical part of our relationship wasn't healthy for me, and that I had tried to put effort into us getting back together, and had done what he wanted me to (starting Al-Anon). I told him I was going to move on and let him go.
The next day, he asked if I had really been going to Al-Anon, and when I said 'yes', he said that was enough to at least go to some couples counseling to see if there was a shot at us getting back together. We went to our first session, and just skimmed the surface around what had happened, and we have our next session on Monday. I am torn because I do love him, and I loved a lot about our relationship, but I do feel he has some significant intimacy fears and attachment issues stemming from his chaotic childhood, and I haven't gotten any indication that he has been working on those things or anything that HE did to contribute to our relationship ending. I feel he wants to make it all about me, and my patterns, and as long as he knows I am in Al-Anon and working on my stuff, then something can be salvaged. I am unsure (or maybe just scared) about what I want to say about what I need to proceed in reconciling, since I don't want to ruin the chances of us working out. But as I am writing this, I can see that I am wanting to withhold my wants and needs out of fear, like I did so often in the relationship, and that thinking is not going to help me have the type of relationship I really want. I just get confused because of the mixed messages I receive from him.
Sorry this is so long! Any thoughts, ideas, or input welcome!! Thank you!
Hi and Welcome .. I'm glad you are here .. big hugs .. I guess what I am getting from your post is a LOT about him .. how to get him back .. how to fix the relationship.
What about you and what you want? Alanon or any 12 step program is about finding the healing pace that fits you .. that's great you have been going for 3 months .. do you have a sponsor? Are you working the steps? It really doesn't matter what he is or isn't doing in his program .. it really is about you healing.
3 months really isn't anything into a program and something that was said here that REALLY resonated with me was someone said once .. if you knew now that nothing was ever going to change in the relationship meaning in your case .. he's always going to be distant and not be able to be open .. I mean forever .. is the relationship going to be enough to continue it now? If not .. my question to you is .. are you in love with the idea of being in love.
Something my 12 step program taught me was I was obsessive in my relationship and I think if he actually was healthy in thought and deed I probably would have run for the hills. I pick emotionally unavailable men specifically so I don't have to really risk stating what I really feel and owning my part in the break down of a relationship .. it is no accident I picked a drug addict and then a script drug addict/alcoholic to marry. I didn't have to get close as it just wasn't possible based upon them.
Maybe instead of couples counseling now .. especially since sex tends to mess with my mind in terms .. of I have used it as manipulation in the past .. well he slept with me .. he must love me kind of feelings .. I did the whole as long as he's sleeping with me he's not sleeping with anyone else route (that in my case wasn't true) .. plus I think most women confuse sex with love .. it's never just about the act where men are more able to stick it in a box and say oh that was a good time and let's see where this goes. (not ALL men .. however most) .. you can just focus on the friendship part of the relationship and stop taking it so seriously/obsessively.
I am sorry for your pain .. I'm starting to really recognize that if it hurts me emotionally, mentally or physically .. that's not love .. that's being in a relationship for the sake of being in a relationship .. that's not what I want.
DO keep going to your meetings and if you don't have a sponsor .. get one .. and really work the steps you will find clarity.
Hugs S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Sounds like my first partner. He termed himself "fiercely independent" which is good in some ways, but I quickly determined he had intimacy issues stemming from parental disapproval and such. I had him so "figured out" that I thought it was the answer and I could fix and change him or, worse, change myself to be the person he "needed."
Well....turns out a person who clings to the "fiercely independent" aspect of that personality type doesn't really see a need to "work on intimacy issues." So I felt neglected by him and started getting bitter that I was doing all this stuff and chasing after his affections and cherishing little crumbs of affection he would give me, but being resentful most of the time. He didn't want to change. He wanted to be alone and have sex sometimes basically.
To my knowledge he's never had another relationship again almost 15 to 20 years later and I believe he uses us as an excuse to say he tried to have a relationship and live with someone before and it didn't work.
Sadly, this was not the last time someone basically told me "I'm not your Mr. Right" and my response was basically "Don't tell me what you are. I know what you are" and then I would proceed to tell them all about what they were and how to fix it and what was wrong with them so they could fix it and be with me.
My reaction upon getting involved with and doing the 12 steps sounds similar to yours in that I did a double take and was like "Wait a minute....Why do I keep trying to convince guys that I am right for them. Screw that...they can court ME and prove themselves." I also was able to be single long enough to let that person come along...
So....It may be that this guy has some very good qualities, but clearly he has issues and its not an easy fit. It sounds similar to when you have 2 puzzle pieces that look like they should fit together but they don't.
I am an alcoholic also (but have history of being in relationships with other alcoholics which is why I am on this site)....When I was earlier in recovery, I used to think how ideal it would be to have a partner who was in recovery also and could speak all the recovery lingo. AA was really important to me (it still is)...but earlier on it was the only thing I was really, really dedicated to (and I suppose it had to be that way).
What I didn't recognize then, was that I was just a baby in recovery and I didn't know myself. I was in love with AA and dreamed of a partner that was AA instead of just being themselves. Sounds like your man has an intimate relationship with NA and is trying to make you like NA/12 steps because that is the only thing that has worked in his life and he hasn't grown enough yet to see life and people in a broader scope. I used to think I wanted someone else involved in 12 steps until I realized my motive was just to have a clone of myself and that was narcissistic not intimate.
I don't know if that is the case here, but it could be. I respect that you guys are trying to work on the relationship before just ditching....
BUT- If it doesn't work out, you can know you tried and it's okay. Just too many issues to make you guys a fit. Maybe you both have issues that could impair any relationship or maybe it's just that you have issues that make each other not right for each other where you would be happier alone or with other more suitable partners. Remains to be seen. Just don't chase after this guy to the point of losing respect for yourself or missing the real Mr. Right while you were busy making a project out of Mr. Wrong.
Welcome!!I support what the others have said here and want to validate that revisiting al anon could very well save your sanity and reduce the suffering that will occur if you go into another relationship with your addiction of codependency. This is a tough addiction because it is not as obvious as alcohol or drugs. The slogan that came to mind when I read your post was "Keep the Focus on You"...not easy, but simple
SerenityRUs made some points that really hit home, especially asking ourselves that question (paraphrased) "If you knew right now that nothing would change, would you or could you be happy in this relationship?" I ask myself this question all the time now when I find myself thinking about the good times my ex and I have had (he would always stress that I need to remember the good times and not focus on the bad times). My own answer is a HUGE "no"...I never want that type of relationship in my life again.
Pinkchip, what you said really hits home for so many, I'm sure (including myself), when you said "Why do I keep trying to convince guys that I am right for them. Screw that...they can court ME and prove themselves." We should all live by that rule!!
Wow, thank you guys so much! SerenityRUs and Pinkchip, you both are so insightful and helpful!! I wrote down some of what you both said, and am doing some step work as we speak around several of the issues you brought up. Picking partners who are emotionally unavailable has been a pattern, so the point you made, SerenityRUs, about avoiding looking at my part in the relationship break down is really spot on, sadly. As a codependent, I am addicted to controlling my self image, and my denial and defensiveness are the things I use to try to control how others see me.
Pinkchip, I appreciate perspective on when you were a baby in recovery, and how much you were dedicated to AA in the beginning. I can see that with my ex. And you are RIGHT, I am not going to convince him that I am the woman for him, as much as I want him to come to that realization.
Thank you also, PP and LIveLaughLove, for your input and support. I wrote down in my journal in big letters, 'Keep the Focus on YOU' because you are so right-- I keep obsessing over him and that not only leads to insanity, but keeps me from doing my step work. I know my ego/denial is strong, and would much prefer to look at others defects and not my own!
So much to think about, and I am soooo grateful for your support, wisdom and perspective. And of course, so thankful for Al-Anon! THANK YOU!!
As a codependent, I am addicted to controlling my self image, and my denial and defensiveness are the things I use to try to control how others see me.
can I just say this statement just hit me between the eyes and it's something I'm going to pray about this week .. thanks for being here!
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
One thing I learned from the folks in the rooms and my sponsorship was that often when I present my problem I will also arrive at the solution when I'm done.
"But as I am writing this, I can see that I am wanting to withhold my wants and needs out of fear, like I did so often in the relationship, and that thinking is not going to help me have the type of relationship I really want. I just get confused because of the mixed messages I receive from him.
Sorry this is so long! Any thoughts, ideas, or input welcome!! Thank you!"
Thank YOU!! (((((hugs)))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Sunday 29th of June 2014 11:48:29 PM
Thank you, Jerry! I am starting to see (and feel) how this Al-Anon stuff works!!! Not only do I get so much wisdom and help from others sharing, but through my own sharing, I gain clarity. Then to hear others perspective on my situation doubles the understanding. So grateful for you all and the program!
SerenityRUs, I am glad that what I said helped you in any way. I love how when we speak our truths in the moment helps others gain more awareness. I got so much out of what you wrote to me, so it feels good to give back in any small way.
I just had the couples session with my ex this morning, and when I was tossing and turning in my sleep last night worrying about what I should say, what I think he wants, etc., I just kept giving it over to my HP. It helped so much. Then, when I woke up, my mind started racing and I reactively began thinking I needed to analyze, plan, and manage. But then, I remembered that I didn't have to do that! It was so freeing to realize that, and to just focus on me getting aligned with HP. I remembered someone at a meeting saying that the most useful shares are those where you don't plan ahead about what you are going to share... and that you just need to be grounded in the moment, and share from a place of not knowing. That was the attitude I had in the couples session. I realized I didn't have to have an agenda or plan, and the main goal was to be connected to what I was feeling and thinking in the moment and to express that in a direct and non-blaming way. It is hard to let go of trying to control what I think SHOULD happen, but I was able to let go of expectations and it went really well. It allowed me to truly hear what my ex and the therapist were saying in a way that I don't think I could have if I had an agenda. I was even able to set some boundaries!! I usually just react/respond to the other person's boundaries, which has led to a lot of confusion and pain. It felt SO good to state clearly what I was feeling, and what I needed to move forward. I think it even created more of a safe space for my ex to talk about some of his shortcomings and fears in ways I had not heard him do before. Our next step is to email the therapist individually, and state what our boundaries are during this time as we are considering reconciliation. Like if we should date others or not, sleep together or not, and what kind of contact we should have. I feel pretty clear about what I want around those things, which feels good.
Thanks for the support! If anyone has any other input or thoughts, I am open to hearing them. :)
-- Edited by LivinginthePresent on Monday 30th of June 2014 11:17:51 AM
I think there would be a lot less issues in the world if people would just listen without the having a response ready .. I'm really working hard on that part of my life .. some days are better than others.
There is a great book series out I don't know if you are familiar with it called Getting Them Sober, vol 2 and vol 4, Toby Rice Drew ( I think or Toby Drew Rice .. lol) I think would apply to your situation .. don't let the title fool you .. lol .. it's really about us not the addicts.
It sounds like you are in the right place and just need to keep working on you .. congrats on finding a break through for yourself :)
Hugs S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
