The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I'm not sure where to begin but I sure could use some advice. I recently found out my AH's what I call "emotional" infidelity - Texting another woman from AA. He said they are just "friends" but when you spend an unbelievable amount of time texting each other and then seeing each other at AA meetings, don't tell me you are just friends. I"m no fool. I asked him if he loved her...after a long pause he says "I like her. We have the same personality, we have alot in common". That broke my heart. He even put her under a guys name in his phone so I wouldn't find out. Tell me that doesn't set up red-flags all over the place. Intuition tells me that the is not telling me the entire truth. I don't know what to do. Obviously trust is broken. He tells me that he turns to her for AA advice and also marriage problems. Please. She has only been in AA for 6 months.
He said he had talked to a friend about the texting and his friend (longtime AA member) told him to stop it and talk to your wife instead. He ditched that advice and continued texting. He only stopped because I found out. He says they have not done anything "physical". I can only take his word for it. This is emotional infidelity...for now. Had I not found out, I can only imagine the next step.
Please tell me what to do. I'm anger and hurt. I'm contemplating divorce because once a cheater, always a cheater. If not this time, there will be another time. This is the second time this has happened. I caught it at the beginning last time. Am I fool to keep hanging on? I don't need this. I've been supporting him for most of our marriage life (he has no job) and over-compensated for his lacks due to his problem. I've been juggling practically everything and it has really worn me down over the years. I've been to al-non a few times but I"m so incredibly busy keeping my family together. I know I've enabled him but this cuts the cake. How do people survive this?
This is a very wonderful place that has helped me enormously as I've tried to learn about the ways that alcoholism affects our loved ones, and also the impact that it has on each and every one of us who come into contact with the disease. Remarkably we can and do survive and I suspect that we each do it in our own way, whilst learning from others at the same time.
Your post is a difficult one for me to read because your situation so closely mirrors a hurtful aspect of my own AH's behaviour. I can not tell you what is right for you but I can completely understand the hurt that you are feeling. For me, the thirty years of emotional connection that I had with my husband was one of the treasures in my life and when he chose to reach out to another woman for emotional support I felt as though I was loosing a limb. Which is kind of strange really because he had been drinking excessively for seven years before that and in truth our connection with each other was not as good as I liked to imagine. I think that comes under the heading of my own denial
I made so many mistakes - the most relevant one being that I tried to change my husband's behaviour instead of changing my own. I focused on saying 'you can't do this' when it probably would have been slightly more effective if I had been talking about how I was feeling and how my perception of him was changing.
My lightbulb moment came when I started to focus on myself and my own needs. I took up yoga and meditation. I made time to do things that I enjoyed. I got a life! Eventually I realised that I was responsible for the protection of my own self esteem/self respect. My husband had lied to me. To be fair he was probably lying to himself at the time as well. When I gave up trying to control AH's behaviour I started to learn about taking responsibility for my own boundaries and that made it easier for me to figure out what I needed. I told AH that I could not live with someone that was drinking and was not honest with me and I left. That was the beginning of AH making up his own mind that it was not in his best interests to carry on behaving the way that he had been.
We are back together, although still battling to rebuild our lack of trust in each other and struggling to deal with some other issues as well. I still don't know how everything will pan out between us but I do think that things would be easier between us now if I had been a bit clearer about what I needed before I came back to give 'us' another shot. I'm not very good at dealing with confrontation and I still have a lot to learn about boundaries!!
Like you I am the primary earner and like you I have been worn out. That made me tired, irritable and, frankly, a bit of a victim! I tried so hard to resist saying 'after all I've done for you' but eventually I even managed to blurt out that old cliche (it just had to be said I guess - arragh!!!)
The first step for my survival was to start doing things that I enjoyed and taking better care of myself. I no longer try to control my husband, he knows where I stand and more importantly, so do I. I've been feeling furious with AH btw, and that, together with the shame that he feels, makes it difficult for us to connect without things becoming overheated. How to deal with that? Again, for me, it comes down to making sure that I'm doing ok and also a little bit of humility - we had problems that were not being addressed and I've played a part in that.
Sending you (((((hugs)))))) and I'm so pleased you've reached out - you are not alone and you don't have to do it all alone either
PS I try not to imagine too much - it does not make me feel any better
Like Milkwood, your story touches my heart. I came into the program because I wanted to fix my relationship, six months in alanon, I found out my husband had a emotional affair. We hadn't even been together very long at that point..about a year. I found a bunch of emails to a woman I knew, telling her how beautiful she was, how much he wanted her etc. He was drinking heavily under this time.That was my rock bottom when I found out, I never had such pain in my life. I understand what you are going through..what it does to trust..it goes out the window. I had huge abandonment issues coming with me from being a acoa. I was addicted to love and would accept any bs he would put out. At that time all my worth was tied up in him. If I lost the relationship, I would have failed. I can tell you the mistakes I made after the affair, I redoubled my efforts in watching him...looking at his phone, eavesdropping on conversations, I even had internet security put on so I could see everything he was doing on the internet. I was obsessed with what he was doing. All that hurt me even more, because I would find what I was looking for. It took me a long time to shift my views and to get the focus on me and love me. It was all new to me, I had never focused on myself before. I was always focused on whatever guy I was with. I started doing fellowship, getting my own hobbies, friends besides him, service work, etc. I hear in your post you are able to take care of yourself, you work hard and you have likely kept it all together for a long time. I hear you don't need him. I remember when I first came in a old timer told me the first week. You don't need him, he needs you more than you need him. I wish I had believed her. I had zero confidence. The program and the program angels helped me so much with that. I am so blessed these days. I am no longer checking on him, or looking for stuff, that would take time away from me. I gave up watching him and replaced it with the program. He has shown me he has changed, in his actions. I live one day at a time though. I trust my hp and my intuition. Hp will let me know anything I need to know. I can tell you, if he did it now, and I found out, it would be a deal breaker. I would end our love relationship. I would still be his friend, because I love him and we have more than just our love relationship....we are friends. I'm no longer accepting the unacceptable these days. I deserve better. I deserve love :) Blessings on your choices
__________________
I needed these behaviors in my past they helped me survive I'm finding new and better ways to not just survive but thrive
I understand how difficult it is to be in relationship to someone you can't trust. I also understand that some people are fickle and thrill seekers and risk takers. I'm not going to change that and I'm not going to change them. Truth is, I'm like that, too, in some ways or at least I was in my younger years. I think it boils down to maturity and active As are not known for their maturity. I can feel hurt about that and get angry about it but it won't change anything. I can say what I think and I can say how I feel and in the end, the only one I've learned who will really make any changes is me. The fact that your AH is ignoring what his sponsor is saying and also an AA program suggestion tells me he is very immature and may be for awhile - maybe for a lifetime. Not everybody grows up - some of us just grow older.
I can't give you advice because you are you living in your situation and you know what you want and what you need for you. Is this relationship really what you want? Is it what you need? Especially if you know he may not change at all?
To me, a loving relationship between two adults really is an opportunity for us to learn how to be happy with ourselves and love the other enough to accept them as they are and not who we'd like them to be. We can choose to make changes in relationship to them that we can live with or we can choose to move on when we or the other person needs the freedom to be himself or herself.
Whatever you choose to do, being true to yourself is the most loving choice you can make for you. You don't need another person's permission to be true to yourself. You only need your own.
Some wonderful posts here with heartfelt responses. Read through your post as though you were reading someone else's and see what comes up for you. I would encourage you to attend regular al anon meetings and get a sponsor. You may be in for rockier times. Take good care of you.
This has been true in my story .. that once a cheater always a cheater .. his path hasn't been to sobriety. I had to make some very hard decisions and part of the decisions that I had to come to was did I want to be a doormat .. and for me that answer was no. I had to separate and even though he swore it was over with the other woman it wasn't and it was more than just emotional they were physical as so my story differs from yours in that regard .. however when the emotional stuff was going on I heard the same thing .. he liked her .. he felt he could be himself when he was with her .. he didn't have to live in reality .. and guess what when he started living in reality with her .. they didn't live together .. they continued to see each other .. well guess what they aren't seeing each other any more.
I had to think about what I was teaching my children .. I have one of each a daughter and a son .. did I want them to grow up thinking this was ok .. did I want my daughter to see her father and think that was a healthy way to conduct themselves with her .. and my son who is younger .. how am I teaching him to treat women? Well, .. I had to set aside childish notions of fairytales .. and for me .. that was the right decision .. I have found my self esteem, my voice and I know .. for him .. NOTHING has changed.
Your pain I am sooo sorry for .. no one should have to feel like they are an option in a relationship .. that hurts a great deal.
big hugs and I echo finding alanon and meetings .. finding a sponsor and taking care of you .. you are important .. you matter .. and you are worth it. I also want to say what you are feeling is completely healthy .. no one can tell you how to feel or predict the future for your specific situation .. you have to figure things out for you. I got through it .. I promise that you will too ... it takes time and it takes self work .. so keep coming back .. big hugs S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Thank you to each and everyone of you for sharing and helping me. I cried as I read every post. Thank you, thank you. I took a drive today and just kept asking myself if this is really what I want. I prayed for God to tell me what to do. I'll pray every hour if I have to - mostly to calm myself emotionally. Yes, he needs me more than I need him. I know that and my friends have told me that. Doesn't make the decision any easier. Thank you all for telling me to take care of myself.
Please don't think I"m being snobbish or think I'm all that but when I have guys looking at me every where I go (I'm actually pretty good looking as my friends tell me) and I have a very successful career but I come home to this, I just can't help but cry. Why? I'm a good wife. I know it's the "disease" and not him but it doesn't make it easier. Why do women like us do this to ourselves? I pray for strength and courage to make the best choice for ME!
I'm going to try to get myself to an al-non meeting and I have a call into a marriage counselor. I guess by doing these things, I will at least know I've done all I can....thanks again.
(((MeeToo))) Sometimes, our hearts have made the decision for us, and it just takes a little while to put mind, heart and body together? Making a gratitude and assets list as you have done here can be a big help, too.
Grateful brought up a great point something that also brought a sharp reality check for me was two lists .. what did I want out of a relationship and what was I getting in the current one I had been in .. in the end .. the bad far outweighed the good (of what I want) .. right now I don't see the positive that I know somewhere is in him .. that will be a time issue for me the further out I get from actually being divorced .. sigh .. someday right? In all honesty .. I had 1 item on the pro's list and it took me 2 weeks to work on it .. I had to reach for that one thing ... so obviously .. it just wasn't happening for me. Focusing on the positive is sooo important and I'm not talking about denial .. I'm talking about truly positive things that I can feel touch see and feel good about. My children's faces when I come in from an afternoon of work .. my work which I really enjoy, I got the nicest compliment yesterday .. the people there make it fun to tease and banter, my meetings that help me in terms of what do I want and who am I becoming .. so right there is almost 5 things and those are good positive things that have nothing to do with being in a relationship and are all about ME and how I perceive the world.
The longest distance to travel is between the heart and the mind .. trust me .. 18 inches might as well be 1800 miles .. it will happen just keep the faith .. you will know what you want to do when you want to do it and for some it will mean reconciliation .. for others that is not the answer and either answer is the right answer based upon the situation.
Hugs S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
My ah had emotional relationship with the girl across the street. He starting attending aa
After 28 years dry and decided it was his mission to help her see the sober way of life.
She had attended aa but couldnt stay sober. One thing led to another constant phone calls,
Texting, seeing each other as friends. Needless to say i was po'd. He claimed he
Was just helping her, neither understood healthy boundaries. She because she was drunk
Him because he didnt want to. Eventually they stopped/ lessened after i saw my divorce lawyer
But he continues sometimes with emotional abuse sometimes verbal and he has been dry
For years but not emotionally sober.
Hi MeeToo I am sorry you are going through this. I feel for you I really do.
This is just my opinion, and I'm no shrink. But I would say that the main draw isn't the emotional support, or the woman. It is about HIM.
Maybe it is just my own experience and bitterness speaking so take everything I say with a grain of salt. This other woman he is texting is simply someone who doesn't see his faults, who hasn't been through the hurt and anger of alcoholism for the past 30 years like you have. You know the real him, this other woman doesnt. I think he is seeing himself through this woman's eyes and fantasizing that he is this great guy that this woman believes him to be. Deep down he knows he isn't. He can erase all the bad parts about himself, and mask them from this woman. I can't think of a more distant and impersonal way to communicate with someone than by texting with them.
In reality this woman is nothing to him, and once he tires of her he will kick her to the curb like an empty bottle of booze. He's just using her like he uses booze. It is just another high. In other words this texting is a by product of his disease. Through this woman he can stay in denial of the kind of man he really is, and what he has put you through all these years. The alcoholics I've been with at least (and I only speak for myself) are always looking for an escape from themselves. Like alcohol this woman provides an escape for him. Looking at his texts and going through his phone is just like trying to find the stashes of booze hidden around the house. Try not to look anymore and try to remember it is just his alcoholism driving his actions.
I can't imagine how you may feel. Remember his disease has him in a fog and he doesn't really know what he is doing. If he was a sober person and living in the same reality as you things would be different. But right now they aren't and it sucks. Hang in there.
Kelly 123 -IMHO, you are so right! And there is some comfort in knowing that it is not about oneself.
I did find that AH continued to have his cake and eat it for as long as I tolerated it. I could not reflect positively to my husband, and while he was seeking affirmations from someone else it was probably like looking in the mirror and seeing the monster from hell! For me, I was undermining my own self esteem when I was trying not to react, I let myself down in that regard.
Thank you to each and everyone of you for sharing and helping me. I cried as I read every post. Thank you, thank you. I took a drive today and just kept asking myself if this is really what I want. I prayed for God to tell me what to do. I'll pray every hour if I have to - mostly to calm myself emotionally. Yes, he needs me more than I need him. I know that and my friends have told me that. Doesn't make the decision any easier. Thank you all for telling me to take care of myself.
Please don't think I"m being snobbish or think I'm all that but when I have guys looking at me every where I go (I'm actually pretty good looking as my friends tell me) and I have a very successful career but I come home to this, I just can't help but cry. Why? I'm a good wife. I know it's the "disease" and not him but it doesn't make it easier. Why do women like us do this to ourselves? I pray for strength and courage to make the best choice for ME!
I'm going to try to get myself to an al-non meeting and I have a call into a marriage counselor. I guess by doing these things, I will at least know I've done all I can....thanks again.
I didn't see this before I wrote my last post. Sorry. A few things you said reminded me of myself.
My ex husband was an alcoholic. At first I thought the world revolved around him, I was so in love. Then I went through 10 years of him boozing hard and cheating on me. He even had a secret apartment at one point. He was also an angry drunk. He would yell at me and wake me up when I was sleeping, it was a bad situation.
Eventually I started pulling away. I started going to bed early and I just let him booze the night away. Sometimes when I would wake up to go to work the next day at 6am he was still boozing from the night before. I couldn't wait to go to work to get away from him. Then I'd come home, we would have dinner and he would booze and smoke the night away again.
I remember when I noticed other men were checking me out. It was exhilarating. I had felt like a ghost in my own life for so long. It made me feel "alive". What a change from this A@@*&)# i had been living with the past 10 years who's cheated on me and hardly knows I exist. One night I was out with my friends and I met a new guy. He was hot and into me????! Little me? I couldn't believe it. I was flattered. My friends encouraged me to give him my number. He pursued me hard. I eventually caved and the cheating began. I can remember the moment when everything changed, when I thought "like he cares what I do, he's cheated on me so many times. I'm allowed a free pass. Plus he will just be passed out by the time I get home anyways so why not have some fun of my own". BAD IDEA. I let my ego and my resentment and bitterness push me away from the person I wanted to be. Until one day I could hardly look at myself in the mirror.
I asked God what I should do. I started looking into furnished rentals in my area. I opened myself up to different possibilities. I can remember feeling like there was another life waiting for me.
I eventually left my ex. It was very expensive leaving, so I saved for months. I couldn't live with myself with what I had done. And I couldn't live with my ex, and all the lies we both were telling. I left in the middle of the night because I knew I wouldn't leave any other way. But I knew I had to just go. I had bags packed and hidden down in the basement. And a big part of me thought he wouldn't really care. I ended up renting a studio apartment and it was the best thing I ever did. I felt so safe and peaceful. Nobody was drinking or yelling at me.
It turns out my ex DID care I left. But not enough to go to rehab. He wouldn't get help and I was pretty much done anyways. Alcohol had poisoned me and him and our relationship. We kept in contact for 3 years after our separation. It was very hard, I cried a lot. And although I am glad I left I still miss him. It is really messed up this alcoholic stuff. I still think deep down that I let him down by leaving. That maybe I could have helped if I had just stayed. And I know I really hurt him. I feel really bad about that.
WARNING , down the road if you do leave my advice to you is to be very careful who you date after you leave your husband. I ended up dating another alcoholic. And I had a baby with him. He is actually very similar to my ex. Just make sure you do the work on yourself before you date anyone or you may end up like me and make the same mistake again by choosing another alcoholic. For me I thought I was fine but I obviously wasn't/ and I still am not fine. It has been 4 years since I left my ex husband. I have a kid now. And a new partner. But I still check my trash box in my email (I sent all his emails to the trash because he was sending really nasty emails to me) , I still look for him on the street. And now instead of praying to God at night about what I should do I pray that he is ok, and that he is loved, and that someone loves him too.
THanks for listening and sorry for the long novel. I know my post might sound a little nuts, I hope this is a safe place to share my feelings, please don't judge me I am just being honest :) MeeToo good luck with your decision I just thought I'd share my own experience with leaving an alcoholic. For me it wasn't as easy as I thought.
Thank you, thank you to those that have recently shared. Your stories are giving me courage and lots of things to think about. And of course, I'm sobbing!!
Sobbing because I"m seeing so much of what I"m feeling and thinking in your responses. I'm not crazy after all!
Also sobbing because I just had to make a difficult decision to tell him to stay where he is at for now while I get a hold of myself (he has been away helping family). I was very gentle and calm. I was fine for the next few minutes after I hung up then tears just started to flow.
I pray to let God help me deal with the emotional pain (again) and to give me strength and courage (again). Oh God, this hurts! But I have to trust that the pain will subside. I"m reading your posts over and over again to remind me that there are people that have gone thru this and have survived. Thank you all for being my instant friends. I"ll probably sob some more later.....
-- Edited by MeeToo on Friday 27th of June 2014 06:11:02 PM
