Mac...welcome to the board.  You have done the solution on the problem of how do we stand this, put up with and live with the pain.  The solution is also in what you have done with membership in the Al-Anon family groups.  You have come to others and made your "help" statement like many of us have done.  Turning to others who were where you are at now and came to the solution of the program is what works.  It will take time as learning this new way to think, feel, act and believe is  different with great results and no guarantees.   You son has a life threating disease just as my eldest has who has relapsed.  I was born and raised within that disease and contributed both to my addiction and my family's.  The program taught me where it was that I didn't know and now I know.   I am powerless over the disease and therefore my son as a practicing alcoholic/addict.  The disease has much more of a powerful attachment with him and today I know that outside of offering and having ready my own recovery ESH I have little else to offer right now.   He refused the ESH that I and my wife, his step mother, has given him and the family.  They have that ability and opportunity...to refuse and then what do we do.  We do what the program has always suggested to us from day one....Trust God, Clean House,  Help Others and all of the other tools which have worked.  My son is in my HP's hands.  My will and HP's will are exactly the same when it comes to this alcoholic/addict.  When his will comes into that alignment also the changes will be profound, he will find sobriety.  We do not put our life on hold waiting for that to happen, that decision to be made by him.  We abide with hope and confidence that what ever happens will be a consequence of what our son chooses.  He has tools and he has a life threatening disease.  This isn't a think about it and then get sober disease...it is a stop drinking and using first and then get sober process since the chemical disables proper thinking.   What Hotrod offered is what was offered to me and it seems to you also early on.  Al-Anon is your hope and then the hope for others who touch you in the future wanting what you have.   This MIP family is also here for you 24/7.   Keep coming back.   ((((hugs))))

Dear MC

you got good replies here, I just wanted to say welcome to the group...there are parents of alcoholics on this board who can weigh in as well and help you.....I am very glad u reached out...this is nothing the non drinker can cope with alone...alanon is for us...to help us focus on ourselves and stay level.....I feel so bad for the parents of addicted children, can't imagine it...i have two brothers, both beloved but i am a bit closer to one then the other...(we hung out more together) and it kils me to see myself losing him to the addiction, but i cannot even imagine one of my girls being an addict....please stay with us, hopefully you and step mom can find meets near by and when you can, try and get some alanon literature and books on the 12 steps, it will help you and mom deal with this......sooo sad....my heart goes out to moms and dads whose kids are in this situation.....

i think reaching out and talking about it, getting it out in the open, sharing w/other folks who can relate is a huge step.....glad u made that decision to reach out.......peace

"ESH " stands for: Experience, Strength and Hope -- I am glad you are here . Please note that alanon is a Spiritual program and not a religious one. Belief in God is not a requirement

I think it must be incredibly difficult to watch your child making choices that hurt so much and I have huge admiration for people who can give their children the dignity of choice none the less.

My qualifier is my husband so a slightly different circumstance. However I did spend years in knots trying to figure out how to make things better; how should I respond; how to show him I loved him etc. I went to a counsellor and she suggested that I look into meditation and it has helped me a lot. I found that just sitting listening to my breath and to the sounds of nature around me helped to still my mind and even though it was probably only still for thirty seconds that was enough to shift my perspective about what I could and could not do. I've also enjoyed learning some yoga - which is something that I started doing with my husband a bit, it is amazing how much easier it is to balance in some of those positions when your mind is calm!

I hope that you and your wife can give each other support and seek out some lovely fun things to do together. I completely agree with Debilyn about the benefits of thriving and enjoying your life - when I started to invest positively in my own life my husband screamed a bit louder and had a few humdinger tantrums but after a couple of months his life seemed to be a bit calmer. Then when he did act out on someone else he had to take ownership of his behaviour and that was when he decided that he needed to make some changes in his life. It is so counterintuitive!

Welcome to our community (((((Mcalanon)))))

thanks all.

My Father was an alcoholic - the fear and violence blighted our lives - making me a very angry young man. But, I left that stuff behind 30 years ago. I did though leave my son, stepdaughter and his Mum 20+ years ago. My son is, I think, right to say he was left alone as a 14 yr old ie I had left, seeing him weekly till he came to us when a damaged 16 yr old. When I left, his elder sister moved out to a boyfriend and his Mum I think had a breakdown so was emotionally unavailable until she found her new man - who she spent all her time with -: I even took on a new stepdaughter when I left him as me and my now wife left our spouses: another hurt for him. So the 14/15-16 yr old did, I think, decide he was worthless as he was left with no-one. Unlike me, he doesn't always open up. He has said now he's never felt 'good enough'. I think it's eaten him up despite lots of counselling. He says he started drinking secretly when he came to us and has - to varying degrees - done so throughout his life he says but, as I said, 'kind of functioned', albeit without settling down in a relationship. My wife always said he drank too much (though even she is shocked to see him now)- to my shame, I wouldn't listen. Even as I write these words I wonder if really he didn't function and my selfishness meant I chose to delude myself he did to a good enough standard.

I can rationalise a lot of the above away - but am not sure there isn't some fundamental truth in my being partly responsible for who he is now. Of course I say to myself, and him, he can't simply ignore all the love, support, money, praise and encouragement he's got from me and my wife in the 20 years since - just as the 2 girls have. And yes, I've said I love him very very much but also that he's a grown man and needs to take some responsibility and stop being a victim/manipulating eg for money - but don't I need to take responsibility too? I know I over analysis/intellectualise but I am as yet unable to reconcile some Al Anon stuff eg if it's a disease, how can the A act to stop its impact? I don't ask cancer sufferers to do this (do I?). I also wonder whether the frequent advice that he has to allowed to make his own decisions/hit rock bottom isn't a way of relieving me of the responsibility to rectify some of my wrong doing/offer help?

We have 4 lovely grandchildren - the older three from the girls who aren't biologically mine - I couldn't love them more I don't think. Since this, my joy in their lovely, secure, thriving lives - and pleasure in being their Grandad is hidden in dark shadow of pain caused by the contracst with my son's daughter - (she is a happy, delightful 14m old at the moment). Him and his baby are the only ones genetically related and I do have dark thoughts of 'bad seed' given my Dad; plus a deep, deep fear for my granddaughter's future emotional wellbeing given my experience of having an alcoholic father. My son isn't violent (yet?), but you all know having an alcoholic parent is always a bad thing for a child. I'm ashamed of my feelings to her mum: she was 'baggage' as we say in the UK. I wish he'd never met her. I think they were both irresponsibly having a child a to fill some 'hole' of their own - they are not young - she's 40+. By the same token, I know she is not to blame for his behaviour.

So, I sit here, typing these words. My lovely wife is back and says - quite rightly - his evident pain/tears are caused by the drink and there's little I can do. I get that intellectually. But emotionally, I don't as meanwhile, he is alone, sad, scared, drunk, ill, bereft, shutting the world out and overwhelmed with trying to stop his world unravelling. Yesterday I couldn't get images of finding him hung out of my mind: I know this is a stress response and that there's little I can do to stop him doing this if he's going to. But it still hurts a great deal. Lastly, my shame is compounded by the fact that (owing to my childhood) I've spent years professionally protecting children from adults who harm them. Yet I believe I harmed mine. And he will harm his. I know for a fact there are other Al Anon folk in this position - of feeling a fraud at work pontificating on other's parenting. Rambling now but I guess you get the general picture.

none of the above is said to disrespect Al Anon or anyone else's views.

MC.

Welcome to MIP. I, too, have a son who is drowning in this disease. Al-Anon has helped me stay out of the rapids and swirling around with him. I can't save him but I can save myself. Sending you lots of prayers for blessings on both you and your son. Please keep coming back.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 22nd of June 2014 03:59:06 PM

thank you all.

Pinkchip - sounds to me like you're a recovering A and so your words are of very great interest to me: and, in a way, more comforting in that (if I'm right) you're proof there is a chance to recover: at the moment, I find it very hard to even think that's slightly possible. I should acknowledge that my being an angry young man involved me hurting his Mum when he was a baby and we separated briefly. I came to my senses, realised that altho' I wasn't dependent on alcohol I couldn't hold it and behaved badly when drunk - so I dumped it. I was 17-23. I've never touched alcohol since. I went back to school and qualified etc instead. I didn't want to be my Father. Until I left his Mum, my angry violence when he was a babe was the only major hurt I know I did him (and his older step-sis.) I've spoken to both a long time ago re this and both say they forgave me all this a long time ago, as did his Mum even though I then left her. You are perceptive in that he undoubtedly has depression - always was prone to it. Dyslexic and dyscalculaic so he struggled but, I was so proud he got a degree and did really well professionally. But now it seems like a charade and, tbh, there are times I feel God (who I profess not to believe in given my experience of Catholicism!) is punishing me for what I did over 30 years ago. I'd forgiven myself though never forgot it - it feels like all the positive, nice things of the last 20+ years are blotted out. What's more, I worry that me and my wife's last decade/s together won't be the contended ones we though we'd had: I feel guilty for bringing this into her life.

But I know this stuff is very driven by emotion - can't believe some of the stuff I've put on here. Sounds very self pitying to a Brit. But I need to share it somewhere and don't want to burden my wife or my daughter too much. It is a comfort to have the responses even if, at the moment, I can't be 'serene'.

I wish there were more stories of recovery - they seem hard to find. I spoke to an 8 yrs sober man from AA yesterday. He'd been in an even worse place than my son is now. It was so helpful to talk to someone who seemed to understand what I was going through but also what my son was - a smart man who didn't judge or blame but didn't sound like a rescuer either.

it's late here so off to bed. I hope you all have a peaceful night.

MC

I know someone who sounds to me as if he is recovering - you. This might sound harsh as a parent, but this is what I believe at this point in my own recovery: I might have contributed to some of my children's issues and those issues are theirs to deal with and heal through just as mine were and are. If you've made an amends and changed your behavior, to me that is all you can do. My background is also Roman Catholic and my experience of my own HP dispelled some of the fears and some of the poor theology I learned or perceived was being taught. I no longer believe in a punishing God because I experienced a HP who cried because I was hurting and my life was a wreck. I realized that I was loved not judged and my HP made God's Self known to me in a way I couldn't negate. Guilt and fear and shame were and are used to control people in many systems - some sales people learn that everybody has a skeleton in their closet and one of the ways to close a sale is to try to hone in on the customer's (read victim's) fear or shame and utilize it to close the deal. You don't have to believe anything that makes you feel bad about you or the best you did as a teenager. I'm not saying you don't need to make amends if you haven't. I am saying guilt, shame and fear won't help you get there. Please keep coming back. We're here for you and with you.

thanks all -

gratefuk2be: well that's made me really think ie I was affected by alcohol long before this and recovering! And I know that guilt, shame and fear are (99% of time) no good for anything.

He says he's cut down this weekend - has appointment with addiction unit next week - says he's feeling better and his yexts are ,more positive - I am trying to keep my message simple as per Pinkchip ie tell him I love him and kno whe can do it - trying not to 'ponder' too much.

so today feels slightly better - but you all know we're always anxious it's a false dawn. My wife came home from a great weekend - was instantly down on being home - but we've been out in the Sun today and I hope that's cheered her. She so deson't deserve all this.

I have my Al Anon meet Wednesday.