Want off the victim triangle.... - Al-Anon Family Group

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Want off the victim triangle....

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Good question, I dont know, it could be, I hear myself being overly optimistic to get people to shut the hell up, sorry, but I do, have you ever had days where the whole world is having a pity party and trying to get you to step inside. This is where I can get overly optimistic. Who would have thought optimism could be a defect, funny.x

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

The victim triangle was a revelation to me, thankfully im off that crappy wheel of destruction.x

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Truth have you ever read the book The Dance of Anger? It talks about triangulation and what happens when one person stops participating in it. Harriett Learner I think is the author of that book. It also shows how triangulation starts and something I have found is this applies to most situations across the board.

I find not participating in whatever triangulation dance is going on is the best "defense" hard to fight with someone who won't pick up the rope so .. whatever that means to you in terms of sticking to your principles.

Hugs S :)

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

No but thank you. I will try it.

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

I am not sure what context you mean; I use it as I think el-cee describes; when people are being overwhelmingly negative and I've had enough I will put on a big grin and a bubbly voice and start saying and doing positive things; I don't think it's a bad thing but more like drawing a boundary..."I'm not allowing any more negativity into my space, thanks, so cheer up and be positive with me or bugger off and let me enjoy my day"... can you explain how you mean using it as a defense mechanism?

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

I, too, use it to get people to shut the hell up. I also used it to help me deny my true feelings and the truth of what was happening in my home. I do have a tendency to see the silver linings in everything, which I like about me...now I can see the truth, too. From that place I can make good choices.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Interesting thought about Anne Frank .. I'm assuming we all know who she is .. something that my 8th grade I think .. English teacher brought to point and it impacted me a great deal .. was she died believing nothing bad really happened to her .. someone correct me if I'm wrong on that part of the book it was in the last pages I think .. this what I took away from it. Obviously .. LOL .. 8th or 9th grade I have slept since then.

Optimism can be a HUGE form of denial that anything bad really happened and I don't know if that is a "good" thing or not. I guess it depends on the person's perspective of the situation ..

My mom is an extremely negative person .. I can already tell you what she will say when I call and say .. How are you mom? It's never positive and always that she feels like crap. I know this when I call and pretty much brace myself for the answer on that one. Now I believe you can still feel bad .. however .. if it's the same answer for the last 10 years then .. well .. maybe I need to do something different and change my perspective of what is going on. I don't care what time of day .. what day of the month .. what cycle the moon is on (you get the point) .. this is how she will answer .. it is part of who she is.

So do I want to deal and dwell on the fact things have been not so great .. no .. I sure don't .. because positive things happen every day. They might not be much .. they are there and it's MY perspective that I'm looking at them with .. I want to be more of a glass is half full kind of person. It's so funny because my mom says that alanon has made me a much more positive person and that is very true .. as well as living away from her influence as .. I don't have to hear the same garbage in .. garbage out on a daily basis .. that's her reality and I'm not going to tell her that's not how she feels.

In that regard I really DO try and focus on the positives of the day and I work with my children on the same aspect of .. focusing on the good they tell me and not letting one bad thing define the next 24 hours of my day.

I also come from the belief that life IS painful and that's why the positive stuff is so important to hang on to .. it's part of the whole hope .. the hope that things will get better and that this too shall pass.

I think it's that whole moderation .. living in reality or living in fantasy. Saying everything is fine and the house is on fire .. that's not fine .. that needs to be addressed .. THAT is how my STBAX deals with things.

Hugs S :)

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

el-cee wrote:
Good question, I dont know, it could be, I hear myself being overly optimistic to get people to shut the hell up, sorry, but I do, have you ever had days where the whole world is having a pity party and trying to get you to step inside. This is where I can get overly optimistic. Who would have thought optimism could be a defect, funny.x

i've done this AND i've done it to not have to feel my feelings....like the ole "fake it till i make it".....WOW...interesting thread.....but yea, i've done this to avoid stuff....w/program i am more accepting my feelings, but sometimes i just dont WANT THEM.....

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

I am not really sure if it is or not but I was just wondering. It is just an observation. It actually came to light when I heard "kill them with kindness". That statement does not makes sense to me.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Truth wrote:
I am not really sure if it is or not but I was just wondering. It is just an observation. It actually came to light when I heard "kill them with kindness". That statement does not makes sense to me.

LOLOL....u know what i did re: this "kill w/kindness"???? this is so funny, it did not make sense to me either and then i had this AWFUL co-worker who was a total B**** I made the mistake of letting her facebook w/me and that was a def. no no as i broke my rule: no personal stuff at work...keep it professional and NO social media...well i messed up big time letting her on my facebook.....we were in a chat and all of a sudden i realized that she was at work...i was home but she was working...well one of the boss's wives caught her and called her out about it.....She said somethng to me on the chat thingy and I said "hey, the lady was right...i did not realize that u were at work and i will not chat w/you while u r at work...i don't feel right about it" well that set her off she began her "hate" campaign on me big time

rude, crude and socially unacceptable she was to me and i just at first ignored her...just acted like she didn't exist, but then a friend told me that she used to work for frito lay and she was in HR and had a witch like that in HER office and she did the "kill them w/kindness" thingy...which was this

i would walk in the door and say "good morning P, how was your weekend??" or i would smile at her when she was being nasty and i would say "gee P, i am sorry u r having another bad day, i will send you smiles and happy thoughts" and i would walk away....i literally was so kind to her w/out getting in her face or having much convo w/her but when i HAD to deal w/her i "killed her with kindness" well honest to god, she couldn't stand it....it drove her nuts...she did not know how to deal w/my smiling face and "good mornings" and my "how are you today???" "have a nice weekend" and i always had a smile and was up beat....did my job professionally and if she had a payroll ?? or whatever i was nice..polite...smiling face and it broke her down....she left me alone.....THEN she quit...gave 3 days notice and bailed.....not a very nice thing to do to bosses who treated all of us very nice.......but yea, the darkness cannot handle vessels of the light...now some folks are down right dangerous and i avoid them at all costs...oh yea, but i am talking about your normal , average, rude ass who we all have had to work with at some time or another......its just not letting her beat me down w/her nastiness....its taking my power back by not letting her upset me......

anyway, that is what i did.....and i LOVED watching her squirm b/c there was NOTHING she could do...what is she gonna complain about to boss??? "Oh Rose is just too nice to me, blah blah"...oh yea......i gave her nothing to use against me and i was smiling and nice....it drove her nuts and i loved it, LOL........

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

When someone is crabby all the time, they often want you to be down too or react in same. It is stimulating to them like gambling,drinking,fighting.

When one comes back with love and light and does not allow their bs to bug them, the crabby one cannot take it. It kills there agenda.

We had a school secretary everyone said she was such a B, not friendly etc. I started going by her office to say hi, gd morn, how are you and sit and listen. We became not close really but sorta. I mean she opened to me, I really liked her. I really cared. She was so sweet to me as she had to call me to give me hard info, daughter was in a car acccident, she ended up ok. or my Mother who had b cancer needed me etc.

hugs!

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Sure it can! We can choose how we feel. We see a group of monkeys running towards us, to think oh geez well this will be ok. I will just stay still and smile...lol

or when A comes home a crab, we can stay smiling and happy and not allow his mood to bug us. WE do not have to get on the defensive at all.

I call it lightening up. I used humor a lot with my AH. I do many times here too. Its natural for me.

great question!

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I have used optimism as a defense mechanism for me. When I was working through the end of my marriage, I was just full of bubbly joy with people and was in some ways the group's clown in a weekend experience for people who wanted to close the door on their marriage. One of the facilitators drew me aside and gently said: "I can see beyond that mask of clown that you wear. You are in so much pain. Do you want to tell me about it?" I broke down then. I was in pain. He saw it and he wouldn't let me cover it up with optimism and clowning. He did me a big, big favor by taking that risk with me. And I took a big, big risk in sharing the rest of my feelings with myself and with him.

My mother told me I saw the world through "rose colored glasses" when she was irritated with me at times. What she said was true. I couldn't look at the wreckage of my life until I was really ready to face the whole of my reality and not just the parts that looked positive to me or that I made look positive to me. That denial kept me alive until I was ready and with people who could help me with it. I couldn't have done it on my own or with critical people. I needed to do it with people who were soft and gentle with me and honest, too. My facilitator had experienced his own denial and so he could recognize mine. I was with peers and not professionals, so everyone shared their own losses together and grew through so much of what held us back from reclaiming our lives and living with hope again.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 22nd of June 2014 12:01:59 AM

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

I think that we use all sorts of things as a defence mechanism - some of them are better and more constructive than others. Optimism is, for me, one of the better ones. Wearing rose tinted glasses and being optimistic has helped me to achieve things that I might not have dared to start otherwise. I've also used the same traits to mask my view of a situation and therefore avoid taking action - but it did minimise my pain at the time as well.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

I have used false optimism in my days of denial before alanon. I did not have any tools to deal with the destructive realities of my life so I pretended, and went into false optimism. Deep down I was filled with anger, resentment, self pity and fear.

Enter alanon and I was given different tools. Acceptance of reality was huge!!!. Then the new constructive tools of prayer , faith, support and fellowship brought me to the serenity to be able to live in acceptance and take the necessary steps to live life on life's terms.

I did not have to pretend everything would be OK. I simply had to put my faith and trust in HP and know that no matter what happened I would be given the power to show up and handle it.

What a difference No more pretend

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Actually, some studies do show that depressed people see the world more accurately. The nondepressed person has a "self-serving bias" that turns sh#t into sunshine lol. I love AA, Alanon....but it's ironic/strange how hard I've had to work in my life just to learn how to be happy and to just assume good things, forgive myself, hope for the best. and allow good stuff to happen.

I used to think books like "The Secret" were complete hogwash written by people just wanting to get rich that were probably miserable too but lying about it. Now I almost think like that myself.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm not surprised about that study Pinkchip - I can remember walking down the road one day thinking 'I need to protect my naivety'.

ClearTheFog · Senior Member

I come from a long line of pessimists. A favorite saying from my Dad: "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a REALIST!". Ok alrighty then, I hope that works out for ya.

In my marriage to my ex-AH, I was in big time denial. I looked calm and full of rainbows & butterflies ('for the sake of the kids') but inside I was rotten. It has taken about a decade of that rot surfacing as cynicism, bitterness and sarcasm, but it's slowly coming out of my system, and I feel like whatever optimism I have now is genuine and realistic. I'm not using it to hide from reality any more.

Another good topic. Thanks!

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

OMGOSH CTF, .. I just rolled because I DO feel that I am a realist only because I can't live in the clouds or I will trip on the ground. That is the ONLY way for me to stay grounded .. I prefer to think of myself as a bumble bee .. I just don't know any better so I fly in spite of myself. There are things I guess that are going on that no one else can believe that have happened in my favor and yet that's the way I have said from the get go they were going to go .. I have heard that won't happen .. you can't do that blah blah blah .. even my atty has said .. that's never going to happen and then just looked at me in awe and said .. well .. I don't even know what to say .. I usually just shrug my shoulders and say .. well, God has a bigger plan I guess. There are other things my STBAX's family swore would never happen such as starving his children for 12 weeks .. we survived in spite of him .. however I knew it was coming because that's just the kind of person I see him to be I guess, .. that's not being a pessimist that is .. it just is what it is and sometimes you just know a situation for what it's wroth. So there is something to be said for being a realist and yes, .. lol .. that works for me .. I guess we can't all walk around with rainbows coming out our butts all of the time and poop smells like poop, not roses there are things that just are and there is no other way to describe them.

Hugs .. thanks for the laugh this AM .. LOL. :)

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Well I learned a lot from that post. It was very interesting. I think what I have really learned is that people can spot genuine optimism or when it is being used to not to accept another person, situation as it is. That clarified why I don't understand "kill them with kindness". I don't see how killing (power) and kindness (genuine empowerment) can be used in the same sentence. Learning - slowly. Progress not perfection.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

I think I also learned that a strength has duality. It can also be a weakness. Optimism can make me highly resilient yet very low at acceptance if reality. Very interesting.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks for the thread, Truth.

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

Great topic! Prior to alanon, optimism has been a defense mechanism that selectively kept me in denial. I can now be optimistic about things but not in a way that forces an outcome or keeps me in an unhealthy place.

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