choosing to stay or go - Al-Anon Family Group

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

choosing to stay or go

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

el-cee wrote:
My choice was to leave, before alanon mind you. I chose to end our relationship completely about 1 year after joining alanon. I have a friend and she chose to stay to the bitter end, her husband never got sobriety and died at a young age. They lived very seperate lives, it was her and the kids and him on his own really. He would dip in and out of family life but he couldnt cope with it, ever. She has said she wished she had left but she didnt want to uproot the kids, she had alanon so he never bothered her much. Her kids though had less armour to protect themselves but she showed them how to do it. She never had a marriage in any sense of the word really, its like they existed alongside each other. She gave up, let go, of so much of what she hoped her marriage would be. Is this price too high? Is staying and all the rearsons for staying still part of denial or is it a valid choice with as much chance of living serenly than those who go?

you know, el-cee , this is a good point....why do they stay?? why did i stay for so long??? I stayed b/c i was afraid of not being able to make it on my own......i think to stay in misery, the misery is bigger than the fear of leaving......noone wants to be unhappy, miserable and living an empty life...so why did i stay for so long in my 2nd marriage....1st one i bailed in 5 years...so why 13 years w/ AH#2??? ok....he was sweet....good provider.....loyal......but never the less he was a drunk who talked to the TV when "loaded" and he was not dependable in so many other ways.....late getting home from work b/c he had to stop at the EM club to have "one for the road" didn't drive drunk, but he has come close.....some folks can be married to an AH and live that "almost single" life that a single would live only they are married.....its the ones staying in abusive situations that I ask about....is it fear??? low self esteem??? marrying "home"???? habit???? for me it was low self esteem and fear of being alone and fending for myself.....dunno if it is denial or some sort of fear of change, leaving, going it alone......at least it was for me.....very good question....I think it is many things depending on the folks in the marriage.....now, with recovery, i wouldn't do it again....I don't have low self esteem, and I know i can take care of me.....so if i saw red flags again and i have in subsequent dates, I RUN......

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Well, el cee, I guess this would be a "different strokes for different folks" kind of thing. To me, it would be a marriage in name only, but when children are involved and there is no domestic assault issues, some folks may prefer this to be single divorcees?

-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 21st of June 2014 08:07:58 AM

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

((((Hugs))))) El-cee - I'm really trying to get my head around this question at the moment - and it's complicated!!

Judging by the panic that sets in when I think of uprooting and leaving I would say it is a form of denial on my part and also a lack of confidence in my own ability to make life on my own work. I can hear myself saying 'but it would be better than this' and yet I don't actually believe in myself yet for a number of reasons - nearly all of which have to do with me. Some bad things happened to me when I first left home at 17 and I guess they haunt me a bit more than I was ready to admit; My father left our home for a few years when I was a child and my mother tried to kill herself. She was given electric shock treatment so when she came home she wasn't really there for a while. (Explains a lot doesn't it??!) Something about giving up seems to hit me in my soul and I struggle to breath! So I tell myself that I'm bringing this anxiety onto myself and if I don't think about leaving then I'm calmer. I would call that denial. Writing this down makes me realise that I should probably do a list of the things that I did achieve on my own - thanks for the nudge my friend.

I think that when I sit down and actually manage to visualise the whole thing, with budgets etc, it might help. I can't tell you how much I resist doing that though - which makes me think that there is also a fear of taking full responsibility for myself as well. So as I said, its complicated!!!

PS You ask if 'this price is too high' - i.e. existing alongside each other. From where I am standing at the moment, I don't really know what a normal marriage is so I don't know what I'm missing. The comparison for me is 'existing alongside each other' vs 'living on my own'.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Milkwood .. I think it is so odd how sometimes stories that I know I have felt alone in just strike a cord about similar experiences .. my mom was left by another man, not my dad, and I found out when I was 14 she tried to kill herself .. it explained a lot about a dark time that I watched her go through a few years before I think I was almost 11. I guess that's why I have and will say there are certain things that I just don't have the luxury for .. really it's a selfish emotional luxury on my part that my children can't afford.

Staying or leaving is a hard personal choice .. just what Milkwood said about the fear, anxiety, shame, guilt, all of that especially when there have been dramatic events of childhood and that lack of safety that is attached to those memories. I'm going to be a two time looser in terms of my picker in 10 days .. (2x divorced from men who have addictions issues). It took some seriously UNHEALTHY behavior by my STBAX for me to figure out that I just couldn't keep living like that and partly because could I do any of this on my own. Some days yes I can and some days .. no, .. really I don't want to .. I try and just face and deal with my reality the best that I can. It's weird because it wasn't even the drinking for me that was the problem .. and I don't have a healthy model either in terms of what a family really looks like .. ironically my dad actually has that .. I wasn't around him enough to know what that model even begins to look like and my mom definitely didn't have that model going .. not because she didn't know .. because she was a single parent for so many years and then we had my step father who was an alcoholic pill taking whack job. He was abusive, physically, mentally, emotionally and sexually as well.

I wondered recently .. even with the learning curves I have had .. and in all honesty .. this is the first time I have really had to grow up in all of these years .. I don't work .. we don't eat, pay bills and so on .. so I stayed because it was easier than leaving. That is the truth for me .. I was also in denial over how bad the home life had really gotten and with alanon I started seeing things as they were and not what I wanted to see. I started to see the effects of the alcoholism on the kids .. and they are doing sooo much better now .. when I found out the level of anxiety my oldest had .. OMGOSH .. that was a hard pill to swallow. Not that her anxiety was MY fault .. it was that this poor kid was living on egg shells and the only reason I found out was because we sat in therapy one day and she blurted it all out. The actual straw that broke the camels back .. him cheating .. and the behavior was over the top to say the least .. him cheating was what did it for me. It wasn't that he was a nice guy or an easy going drunk .. I just couldn't live my life watching him sleep on the couch or in a chair when he came home from work.

Leaving has made me face things I didn't think I could face .. I'm grateful for that .. I still fall down and I still screw up .. at least I don't have someone else dragging me down as well. At least not living in my space .. that peace for me far outweighed the idea of staying with him .. I know without question it would have eventually gotten violent as well .. it was headed that direction.

It will be interesting to watch what happens next with him and after we divorce .. if this doesn't go through in 10 days we may just remain married until a later date .. it won't matter to me at that point. I am not looking for the next Mr kind of deal .. I am only looking to heal further and companionship would be nice .. there isn't a man in town I don't think that is ready for the likes of me .. LOL. I'm ok with that. :)

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I didn't know what I was missing either. I was a dysfunctional person, so my relationship was also dysfunctional. I forget that those were 7 long years I stayed with my ex in an alcohol fueled mess of chaos. When I first came to this board, I was literally appalled by what some people were putting up with from their qualifiers. I was also taken aback that there was no "strong suggestion" to leave someone who was progressed in their disease to the point of being totally inconsiderate and borderline abusive if not outright abusive. BUT - what participating in alanon has done for me is have me think about those few years of sitting on the fence, screaming fights, knowing there was stuff I needed to work on but being scared. There were a good 4 years or so where most people would have told me "Why don't you just leave?!" Then I think that we had no kids, no legal marriage...so I can only imagine how much more difficult it would be if those things were in place. I did allow myself to be led across the country and had only 1 true friend left by the end of it (who is the one I went to stay with for a month after the break up).

There is a post about "chasing the A" this morning and it literally stumped me because I had those experiences so many times. We were both having them since both of us were alcoholics but he had some other complications going on. He would start coughing when he drank and smoked and would choke and pass out and hit the floor. He weighed over 300 pounds so it was scary and it happened in public many times. It got so I would stand behind him when out and just wait to catch him when this would happen. He fractured his face on the bar one time falling into it. Also, he developed horrible sleep apnea which was worse after smoking and drinking and I remember I could not sleep next to him unless I was also plastered...this led to both of us falling out of bed periodically onto the floor and onto our dirty clothes piles. So...most of the time I slept on the couch. But - I would get really scared and paranoid if I didn't hear that snoring from the other room...I would check to make sure he was not dead. It was hell.

So when I ask another person "Why don't you just leave?" I forget what it was like for me during those years. Why didn't I leave sooner? Why did I stay in that as long as I did?

Surrender. It needed to get so bad that I would surrender and really work step 1, 2, and 3. Basically, I needed to ride it out to the brink of insanity so I would be in a position to REALLY REALLY just stop trying to run my life, get into the solution with steps, fellowship, sponsor, meetings...It needed to get that bad so I could get better. That was my Gift Of Desperation (GOD) and in that I found God. I didn't know that the 12 steps would catapult me into being able to stop drinking, stop smoking, lose 60 pounds, double my salary, have a much healthier relationship. I guess I needed to find out that I could put up with HELL first and then walk out to know/have faith that I could achieve my dreams.

So to anyone who is reading this and feels like they are stuck in hell right now. It might just be your higher power working behind the scenes. Turns out we are not the weak ones...just tried to be too strong in the wrong ways and didn't know how to channel it. Just like a drunk has to get really bad before getting better. We have to get really bad too and it often sets us up to never go back and to make real and lasting changes whether that means leaving or not. Turns out none of these 12 step programs are about what we start going to them for (stop drinking, deal with alcoholic, lose weight, stop gambling)....ALL of them are about coming in a mess, giving up trying control the mess, surrendering, and then CHANGING. The triangle in the middle of the circle is delta and delta literally means CHANGE. So...when I think about what I am really grateful for, it's not that I left, got sober...so much as that through this whole process, I changed. That's what I really want for others here too.

John · ~*Service Worker*~

Yes, I believe it can be a form of denial of reality but at the same time that denial cannot be supported by history, or knowledge once it's obtained through our involvement in this 12 Step program. I believe it can also be a form of survival based in fears of "what ifs", and economics. When children are involved, that brings a whole different set of dynamics to be considered and weighed through, including what is is in their best interest. With them we are no longer making a decision just for ourselves.

But I also believe it can be the result of LOVE and COMPASSION running deeper than the pain or misery. And based on my personal experience, as well as what I have witnessed others experience, it is this that allows many the opportunity to recover for themselves, and most likely see the recovery of the one they loved get started. Rebok symdrome, putting on our running shoes and hitting the road... often is not followed by any further recovery for ourselves (Poof, problem solved mentality) and then we wonder why we just ran into the arms of another very sick and needy person. Why? Because we were still sick and needy.

Stay or go is a very personal decision, and we cannot give any one else advise as to what they should do. However, we will try to be very supportive of you and your recovery, regardless of what decision you make. Just keep coming back, no matter which you choose for yourself.

John

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

My friend that stayed, she really loved her husband and she still misses him. She felt compassion for the fact he couldnt really take part in any aspect of family life. Her program saved her from a lot of the expectations and frustrations, she built her life around the fellowship, she is a marathon runner, she is a baker. She is really inspirational when it comes to alanon. In fact she meets her own needs. I feel sad she missed out in intimacy and closeness, trust, friendship that is perhaps unique to a marriage, maybe not. If she had left would that kind of relationship have been there for her somewhere down the road? Maybe, that is the what ifs. Did she sacrifice herself and opportunities to be a carer really?

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm in denial I think or is it something else. I don't leave because I don't want to lose everything. I don't leave because my SO does need someone. I don't leave because I don't want to be alone.

I continue to try and change and help my SO. He does OK for a while then everything blows up. I'm sad, mad and hate but it passes and I'm good again.

I guess it comes down to I have not hit my bottom and know in my heart if nothing changes nothing changes.

Sad.....on my part

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

While I was making lunch today I was thinking about your question again El-cee and I realised that I did not mention my initial reasons for staying - then I see that John has flagged them up already. So many of us stay because we love and believe in our partners. I remember walking back to our house one day and thinking 'I want to be there to see AH fly, it will be a beautiful thing'. I remember thinking that after all we've been through together we would really have a special understanding and value for the good things in life. And I also remember all the times when we did value each other equally, before the selfishness of alcohol got in the way. So not all of the reasons for staying are negative - some of them are very positive as well.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Milkwood, thank you for sharing here, I can understand that fear of abandonment and Im sorry you went through that. I identify a lot with attachment disorder and my ex was a person who would never physically leave, I still felt abandoned anyway. The odat is good for the marriage, the readings are full of ways to live with your a husband and be happy.x

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks for this thread .. and as sad as this is .. someone asked me what it was about my A that I liked and honestly .. I can't think of anything .. now my children have attributes that he has .. creativity, musically inclined and so on .. however .. he didn't share those with me so I can't say that is something I liked about him. Now .. he is a hard worker and that's all I have. I don't believe that I really loved my STBAX .. I know that sounds awful to really say .. however .. if I really get honest .. no I really didn't and I say that from the stand point that I didn't know what love was .. I know what love isn't. I don't know what love is, except when it comes to experiencing that with my children. I have also dealt with attachment disorders so trying to wrap my head around that is difficult as well.

To say that I stayed because I love my STBAX is not true. Those were not my motives in the least. I can say I was obsessed and why didn't he love me back, what could I do to make him love me, I think I posted here about that maybe not .. I wanted that, I was jealous of the lack of that in my life .. to say I loved him is just not a true statement.

It is an interesting topic.

Thanks again :)

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

I've been contemplating this and had a really interesting discussion about it with someone who has also stayed far too long with a pretty unpleasant guy and we got on to the topic of pity vs love which has come up here in another thread today so I'm thinking it's something i need to be thinking on right now.
It opened up a huge can of worms for me and I have been exploring it and trying to work it into my step 4 work somewhat.

I've never had any expectations from ABF and have always felt awfully sorry for him because his childhood, from what I know, was just so sad and awful and in my mind, he never had a chance...I've used that fact time and time again to excuse his awful behaviours to myself and to everyone else....much the same way his mother does. So many times when he has been super-nasty I have thought...is he pushing me away because he's scared, in pain, etc...that idea has caused me to sacrifice my own happiness...and so many times I have even used it to excuse his nonsense to my daughter (ignore him, he doesn't know any better, he was raised by wolves)... I know that's terrible but I'm looking at it with hindsight now...i didn't realise how wrong it was before, I just saw myself as being loving and compassionate.

I was also thinking, my father was raised similarly, abandoned by his mother and treated badly as a kid and I have always let that be the reason for the way he is and just accepted it as a given. I've never expected anything from him; of course he is a crazy drunk psycho, look at his sad childhood. But you know what? My mother grew up like that too and I don't make excuses for her, she's a big part of my life and does a lot for me but, she can be a crazy codependent B so, I'm always thinking poorly of her and feeling angry with her. How is that fair?

Why feel sorry for males who have grown up around neglect, addiction and abuse and expect nothing from them but be super-hard on females no matter how hard they try to hold it together for everyone???????

Anyway I've wandered off track but, in my case, I think I have stayed far longer than I should have out of pity, having mistaken it for love. Kind of like how I can't go to the animal shelter and cry for days afterwards because i want to take them ALL home even if it will bankrupt me...this story I have built in my mind of the poor abused little boy who doesn't know how to show love....yikes, give me a break, but there it is.

*well, obviously there is a lot more to it as well like my own fear, pay-offs etc. I'm just really fascinated at the moment by the idea of what this overwhelming "love" I think I feel for him is because I'm pretty sure it's actually pity.

-- Edited by missmeliss on Saturday 21st of June 2014 11:05:20 AM

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Its part of the denial, they and we need something or someone to blame to make it ok, when its not. My ex blamed his mother for his reason to drink and others intermittently, including me. His mother and how he was neglected and abused, boohoo. This gave him the reason he needed. Its all an excuse, denial and manipulation. Most people dont get a brilliant childhood or perfect experiences and not everyone uses bad times to hold on to for years and years and pull out the poor me card whenever they feel like it.
It actually makes me so mad. I bought that crap for years, even holding the kids back form his mother, believing her a monster, she wasnt a monster, she done the best with what she knew. My kids missed out on a relationship with her because of this, but I bought into it to, noone forced me, it served a purpose for me too. I have responsibilities in all of it too, I was never and am not an innocent victim, I played my part. Thanks.x

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

I know the reasons I stay: fear, the what if's, financial reasons, and hope(much smaller part). I think I relate most to some of what Milkwood had to say and what John said about survival based in fears. Even though I am going to be working, temporarily, part-time that won't be enough for me to keep a roof over my head. My AH is a very good employee and does very well at his job.....for now. I know that the future can change at any minute and that the American economy can be in the tank at any given moment (sorry to be a downer but I was a stockbroker and worked with financial forecasters and economists for a living). I have a very realistic viewpoint on world economics and I know that most of my fear comes from financial fears.

I'm not afraid to cut my spending, eat beans and rice everyday, etc but I do have fears about healthcare costs, insurance, rising electricity costs here in AZ(my bills last summer averaged $550 a month and we don't have a large home), and auto maintenance. They may sound silly to some but after my last car fix ran over $1000, I was grateful for my AH's job.

As for attachment issues: yep, I deal with those too. I lived in fear of my alcoholic porn addicted father. If his voice rose above normal speaking tones, I would cower and shrink inside. The only thing I can say is that most of the insults and hurt he hurled at me were done while he was drunk, so I was able to make excuses for it. I can't say that about my husband. He said ALL of his hurtful crap when he was sober. So, I always felt that I couldn't make excuses for AH since he was sober, I hadn't heard of dry drunk or anything like that and so I sat in my marriage thinking that 'this is it', this is what I'm stuck with for the rest of my life.

I guess, for me, I stay also because there is no physical abuse and I know that I have a long way to go in my own recovery. I'm not in a place where I'd be ready for someone else anyway. You know that saying, "Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't?", that's pretty much what it boils down to for me. Until I get super healthy and pour myself into program and truly 100% surrender to it, I won't be ready for a relationship with either AH nor anybody else, for that matter. What it's boiled down to for me is recommitting to program, throwing myself into it with as much energy as I can, and then re-evaluating where things are in 6 months. I have to be honest with myself and admit that I'm still stuck in my own self-will running riot in my life and until I get a handle on it, I won't find happiness in any relationship. My relationship with God must come first. I have no idea if anything I said made any sense, LOL, but I hope it explains some of my thinking!

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Perfect sense, your awareness is really good, your clearly not in denial about it all. Thank you.x

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

I stayed because I feared that if I left, my life would be worse and knowing what I had appeared better than what I did not know. Knowing what I know now and how wonderful it is to live without active addictions in the home, I would have attended the al anon meetings I reached for 25 years ago and let life take whatever course it needed to take for my well being.

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

El-cee, sorry I'm sort of thinking out loud on this one rather than having something specific to say...excuse me rambling !!

Using it as an excuse? Yeah, I guess it's less painful to think he's a poor sad boy who doesn't mean it really than to accept that he doesn't really care much and I've been driving myself crazy all these years over someone who doesn't in all likelihood give much of a poo about me...because that's REALLY hard to accept and walk away from. Maybe I have feared my own anger if I actually give in and accept it.

Anyway less 'why" and more 'how now" for me

That gave me some good food for thought anyway, thanks!

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Missmeliss - Oh that has been a really tough one for me to come to terms with, I felt soooooo stupid and angry with myself!!! But I got over it by thinking about times when my optimism served me well (many many times).

I like 'how now' - it rhymes so beautifully with 'owl' !!

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

An excuse to drink and behave badly, oh yeah. Not a lot we can do but not enter into it or encourage it or sooth it. Feeling sorry for people was common for me too, soft hearted, I think theres a difference between compassion, where you can relate to the person and pity where you get something out of that, pity sounds like being above or better than the person, sympathy is ok in small doses, for me, I allowed so much bad behaviour because I felt sorry for him. He liked that, used it and I let him and encouraged it.

These days, theres not a lot I can say about him that I cant say about me, i behaved just as badly with many similar symptoms, do you know what I mean?
Good name for you melly, how now owl.x

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

Yep sure do know what you mean. I was such a willing participant for such a long time! What a sad sick mess.
lol, how now owl. Sounds like some kind of educational children's character.
How Now Owl says "Do the next right thing!!"
lol.

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

What kept me living with my AH for many years was the HOPE that he would quit drinking someday. I kept waiting. I kept hoping I would come up with something magical to say to him that would convince him to stop. I enjoyed some of the good times. I didn't want to have my SECOND marriage end in divorce. I didn't want to feel like a failure. I didn't want to lose my house. I was hoping and waiting for changes from him, but I was living in hell...especially these last few years.
I have been in al anon for a year now. A few months back my sponsor advised me to live with my husband like I was a single woman. When I started living as if he wasn't there, it wasn't much different than I expected it to be. That was eye opening. Maybe I could live on my own! I have a good job, I can get help from my family. So,thats when I decided to leave...when I couldn't live with myself any longer for putting up with my daughters father being drunk when he was watching her while I was at work!! It happened too many times. My love for my children and the fear I had for their safety forced me to leave. I got tired of feeling like he was having an affair with his bottle of alcohol. My first husband cheated on me with women, the second one did it with a bottle! Lady Alcohol is what I call her.
So, there are consequences to leaving. Now I have to be a policewoman about when and if my daughter can stay with her dad. I am confused because he isn't drinking. He is cleaning up a lot of junk finally...but this is all happening after I moved out! It's maddening. Too little...too late.
The benefits of me moving out have been that I sleep better. No worrying about what he is doing or not doing. My place is smaller and easier to clean. I don't have to worry about begging him to stop drinking or to just come lay down next to me in bed. I have surrendered quite a bit to everything I am worried about. My house is an object, if I lose it so be it...it's not as important as my peace and sanity. I have learned to trust my HP. I don't really understand how people can stay with an A especially if they are abusive. We had that issue, too. A few times was enough for me.
The worst part about my leaving has been sharing visitation with my child. Things will work out somehow because I will not live in chaos anymore....wondering and waiting for the drinking to start again.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

I chose to keep us together as long as I could. Had a chance to really put into motion all I learned here. I wanted to marry this man since I met him and he got drafted. I didn't want to let go until I was ready.

BUT I feel if one has kids, they do not deserve to live like that. I have seen what it does to them, I am talking K thru young adults. The disease tears them apart, they do not mature as they need to. Their lives are full of pain. Then never know what is going to happen next.

I just won't do that or ever ok that. I am super protective of children, have listened to them and suggested them to talk to their mom or their dad whoever was the non A. But they are afraid to!Plus they grow up thinking they did something wrong.

When there is physical abuse, again I will never ok that, never. I have seen first hand what it does to people. I would not put a chicken thru it.

If it is a childless marriage, I do my best to support them in whatever they need to do. I do know in most cases, unless the person is really ready to leave, they will leave and come back a few times.

People like horses seem to like what is familiar. Just like kids who are beaten and other kinds of abuse on them will be taken out of the home, all they then want to do is go home.

I only left mine 100% becuz he became dangerously abusive, and he was no longer the man I married in any way.

All I know is my life has a strong serenity for my foundation. Hey things are not always easy! But i do have that inner peace that I get from using the great info from mip al anon and from my belief in my higher power and living as the Bible says.

sigh.......

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

PP wrote:
I stayed because I feared that if I left, my life would be worse and knowing what I had appeared better than what I did not know. Knowing what I know now and how wonderful it is to live without active addictions in the home, I would have attended the al anon meetings I reached for 25 years ago and let life take whatever course it needed to take for my well being.

ohhh my goodness!!!! this is what I felt......when i left AH#2, i was in a "comfort" zone...I knew what to expect...well sorta.....the unknown scared me to death......fear of change...I still am afflicted with it and have to work my program hard to work through that fear of change...even when I KNOW its for the best, its that old "omg, what if life is worse????" wow, Paula, hindsight is 20/20 hey??? i sometimes get actually depressed that i spent my years my best years the way i did, but its done...gone...kaput.....can't bring it back...i can only move forward....some folks never get into recovery ..and that is even more sad

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm a firm believer that every situation is different and can be any mix of emotions, feelings, reasons, rational, and love or lack thereof. I stayed when I was in denial and without an education about the disease and without support from Alanon. It is only in hindsight and distance that I know my truth and can see my reality with clarity.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Wow what a thread. I've lived much of it myself and I relate so much and then being born and raised in the disease I learned that the dysfunction was normal and I could live dysfunctionally quite normally. My family was dysfunctional and so were my relationships. I knew no other way how to do it. Relationship breakups were normal and expected and so up until 1993 when this 20 year long marriage took place when I didn't really want to be married I had a lot of affairs. In the disease affairs are normal as are breakups in the affairs. Longevity was luck as I looked back on them and then I found Al-Anon and in early program even I was invited into affairs by some of the female members and refused to do it because I came to understand that was one symptom of the disease in my life. I came to understand early on that the partners I chose...I chose and came to understand more that my "chooser" therefore was set on disaster. I had to take responsibility for my outcomes while I had women in my life who were so easy to blame for my problems. Learning about the disease in my life and the affect it had on my families of origin showed a very bright light on my past. I didn't know what to do and didn't know that I didn't know. I went with the call of nature and took no tools with me. Anything that went positive was by luck and anything negative bad luck. I learned that I wasn't born with a piece of paper in hand that had a roster of people I was to have relationships with and therefore again I used a chooser which wasn't fully developed and experienced. I chose by looks and pleasant behaviors stuff that made me feel good (or intoxicated). I was done when I reached Al-Anon yet still compulsed for the behaviors...addicted to addicted relationships. Recovery came and I learned so much about who I was and who I wanted to be. So much came from my sponsorship and my relationship with HP. I learned what it mean't to "Keep and open mind and you will find help" at the closing of our face to face meetings. Then came the day when I learned the mind set of "I love you....I like having you here....and I don't need you". All of those connected with ands and not buts. All were true. I love my alcoholic still and I loved at time having her close and for sure I didn't need her to define me...that was my responsibility and choice. when we split up (we should have never married...She and I both knew that we loved each other and had absolutely never had a reason to be married. My sponsor was working with me on making choices cause I was so bad at getting the process right. I was doing dysfunctional and expecting good luck. One night he taught me, "Choose the result you want and then make the choice(s) to get that" I woke up...I never had that plan or direction ever in my life and now I do.

I'm free to be more honestly giving today than sitting in expectations to be fulfilled by my spouse or anyone else. They are also free to make their own choices and when we choose to do life together it becomes awesome. I love that and I love my life and accomplishments. Gratitude for good and positive things regardless of from where or whom or when they come is soooo supportive to recovery. Be pleasantly surprised and openly grateful for them even if they come from the alcoholic. When I can and will do that I know my "fear of" acceptance of life as life is on life's terms is present. When I do that I see life as fair, honest and just without my conditions just as HP gets it...I can love without condition...you, me and everyone else. It goes without mention that there is no one in my life including myself who is perfect...they just are. I get to choose the conditions of my life before I make the choice. In support (((((Hugs))))) smile

-- Edited by Jerry F on Saturday 21st of June 2014 11:26:17 PM

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.