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Miracles In Progress 12 Step Recovery Forums -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Al-Anon Family Group -> Is he trying to find an excuse? Too much information...Sorry...
Post Info TOPIC: Is he trying to find an excuse? Too much information...Sorry...
Luiza


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Is he trying to find an excuse? Too much information...Sorry...
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Hi.

Since finding MIP and going to my 1st meeting I have been practicing the 1st step and the slogans and I have been improving so much.

On my last thread I explained how H came drunk on Monday and I didn't fight and treated him with silence. He has been baffled since and didn't get drunk on Tuesday and Wednesday. He was on early shifts on Tue and Wed, came home straight away after work, brought few beer to drink at home, but didn't get drunk and we never mentioned the incident on Monday. Fine

But yesterday Thursday, he was on a late shift. I was working hard not to get anxious and think how he would be once back home.

When he came home late in the night, I was half awake half asleep..usually he is very quiet when he comes late, even when he is drunk, but this time he was a bit more careless and this grabbed my attention since I no longer could sleep until he settled. I could see he was not drunk (I tell by his footsteps and other signs) but instead of getting up and going to talk to him I pretended I was asleep. I did this because usually he wants to talk a lot about his day at work and it was late. I wanted to sleep. Maybe I was being selfish, since he wasn't even drunk.

Anyway, he then decided to wake me up because he wanted intimacy.

Now, I have told him in the past to not wake me up unless it is an emergency....but he did it. Again. As I was already awake anyway, what bothered me the most was the way he did it. I don't know if he is just extremely immature or clueless, but he woke me up with a kiss and expected me to be at ready within 5 seconds. Yes 5 seconds!

He didn't ask me how was my day, if I was ok.

He didn't give the chance to even talk and ask him those questions....

Of course I backed off and told him (trying not to be mean) that he can't just come home late, wake me up and expect me to be ready in 5 seconds (I tell you, it was that quick).

He said: But now that you are awake anyway, why not?

I said: But I am awake, because you woke me up. I told you many times not to do this. You did. And you expect me to be happy within 5 seconds??

He than proceed to say how he is doing everything I ask him ( I haven't asked anything in a while tbh) and how I always use the same old excuses (intimacy) and how I am pushing him away. Than he said he will get to his limit and walk away from the relationship...

Now I am thinking to myself: How romantic! Is this for real? He could have had the end result he wanted by just being more mature and gentle! Perhaps by asking me if I was ok/had a good day...perhaps saying that he missed me or thought about me during the day/was looking forward to see me or something to this effect...

But waking me up and expecting me to be ready in 5 seconds is so not on...I have told him many times that I don't have an switch button, this is not the way things work for me..he doesn't get it...I feel like I am an appliance expected to be ready for him when he feels like, not someone with my own feelings and wishes.

I feel very confused. is he is just clueless like this (even though we had this conversation many times) because he had zero experience with relationships before me and was a virgin when we met, or if he did it on purpose to find an excuse to go get drunk tonight?

What do you think?

You see, today is Friday, it is going to be the hottest day of the year so far. The sun will shine until 9.30pm and the pubs will be full of people enjoying themselves. He is on a early shift today and have the day off tomorrow....hmmmm....

Very convenient of him trying to pick up a fight or finding an excuse to go and get wasted.....

As for me, I will battle the whole day not to feel guilty and reassuring myself that I did a good thing sticking to my boundaries and imposing respect. 

And working on the 1st step and perhaps the 2nd not to go mad.

Tomorrow is Saturday and I have a day out planned with daughter. He is not coming, so he can stay home alone nursing his hangover if he has one.

Thanks for the space and I am sorry if I shared too much.

Let me know if it is inappropriate. 



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pinkchip


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Not inappropriate. I do believe alcoholism retards social and emotional maturity. It also inhibits perspective taking so alcoholics frequently fail to see thing from the eyes of others. It is truly maddening how immature and selfish they can be but years of drinking stop them from gaining the wisdom, romance, caring that an older non-active alcoholic might have. I know your post is certainly not out of place because this topic has been discussed multiple times here. You are not alone.

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PP


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I lived this for many years, and when this happened, my husband was making a case for the reasons why he needed to drink.  You are spot on, trust your gut.  He would bait me, hook me and get what he wanted, reasons to support his addictions.  Keep working your program and have fun doing what you want to do. (((Hugs))).



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Paula
karma13


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I just want to say you are doing so good and working such a good program already;)nice boundary ;) and the plan to do something with your daughter on Saturday keeping the focus on you and your daughter;) wonderful!!! I will say most likely since you have had this conversation with him before, he knows, we teach people how to treat us. He was likely testing your boundary. I don't feel you should second guess yourself here, you listened to your intuition. Hugs and blessings;)

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Luiza


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Thank for the replies. I really needed to know if I was being unreasonable by expecting a little more. I am battling with myself not knowing if I should call him or drop him a message or if I shouldn't. And what to say anyway? I don't 'care' if he drinks anymore, but it is important for me that he understands my viewpoint even if he doesn't agree. But I don't want to have yet another discussion about it all. He is 33 and we have being together nearly 9 years..... He should know better. Any man would know that what he did wasn't the best way to get a woman in the mood? But perhaps he just needed me to reject him so he could have his excuse to get drunk.

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Sometimes the smallest step in the right direction ends up being the biggest step of your life. Tip toe if you must but take the step.
PP


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The less said the better.  Whatever you say will be more food for his poor choices.  It is best to speak your words to us and in your al anon meetings.  And I know (as I belong to the "gotta have the last word" club) how hard this is.



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Paula
Luiza


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Agree with testing boundaries Karma. And threatening to leave the relationship if I am not willing with a click of his finger is just nasty. I do hope he is able to see what he is doing wrong. And what is wrong with me? Even though I kept my boundaries and I am writing here that what he did is not ok I am still second guessing myself and thinking if I perhaps over-reacted or if I was being a lazy, selfish, difficult wife.....

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Sometimes the smallest step in the right direction ends up being the biggest step of your life. Tip toe if you must but take the step.
Luiza


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Thanks PP. I guess I am afraid if he is now angry with me. I am thinking I am the one who need to make amends. Maybe this the dysfunction telling me if I make things better maybe he wont be so drunk or angry or passive aggressive and push my buttons. I should go and live in the moment right?

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Sometimes the smallest step in the right direction ends up being the biggest step of your life. Tip toe if you must but take the step.
neshema2


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PP wrote:

The less said the better.  Whatever you say will be more food for his poor choices.  It is best to speak your words to us and in your al anon meetings.  And I know (as I belong to the "gotta have the last word" club) how hard this is.

 Oh absolutely spot on...all these answers you got, I agree with.....his treatment of you was totally inappropriate...drinking its like they stop growing and gaining wisdom , respect when they become substance abusers......I think the less U try and trade comments with him, the better.....My AH#1 did the same thing...would drink..be horrible to me and then want intimacy....It just does not work that way...the non drinking spouse needs to be loved, honored and respected and THEN , yea, maybe its ok (intimacy) when it is convenient and right for the non drinker, too....keep working your program and try to detach from him...its hard, still living together, but alanon will help you find a life of your own that is healthy..............peace adn support...



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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!! 
PP


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I so understand.  This sounds like my life before recovery.  These kinds of thoughts still get me sometimes...perhaps it is a reminder that i can go back there in breath if I don't keep working my recovery!



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Paula
karma13


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There is absolutely nothing wrong with you ;) I know for me the guilt and the second guessing myself was conditioned into me from the time I was a small child. It was the way my mom learned and her mom learned. I should be a perfect wife, perfect child. I was taught not to trust myself and my intuition. It is learned and it can unlearned, but it's a process, and it takes time. Be gentle with yourself;) hugs ;) you are doing great !!!!

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karma13


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And yes I agree with pp the less said the better ;) showing with actions not words ;) a peaceful silence ;) I know first hand it can be so tempting to send him that text, and try to make him understand. I can still do this with my husband, not as much. thank god for the program. I can still go on and on and try to get him to understand my point of view, when the way he thinks is much different. I don't need to understand him and he doesn't need to understand me. Staying peaceful, keeping the focus on myself and my recovery is my priority. These days my serenity is my most valuable possession.
In recovery we learn that the guilt, wanting to make amends when we don't owe amends, feeling responsible, inappropriate shame, this is stinking thinking ;) and can still get to me I have to stay aware of myself and my motives in every moment  ;) 

 



-- Edited by karma13 on Friday 13th of June 2014 07:44:22 AM

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I needed these behaviors in my past they helped me survive I'm finding new and better ways to not just survive but thrive 
Luiza


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Thank you friends, I am glad I posted. I wish he had someone to talk to, someone he would be comfortable with sharing this kind of stuff so he could have some perspective and realise this is not the way to treat a woman.... He will never understands if comes from my mouth. Or maybe he pretends he doesn't....

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Sometimes the smallest step in the right direction ends up being the biggest step of your life. Tip toe if you must but take the step.
PP


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He will stay in his chosen isolation until he works his program of recovery.  You cannot love him enough to change how he lives his life.  What is the next, most loving thing you can do for you?  This is a living breathing question that goes with me everywhere...from a place of deep love for me, I am the most loving I can be for all living things.  And love does not look like it once did.  Sometimes the most loving act we can do for another is firmly and quietly say "no more".  To me, this represents the highest form of love and empowerment.  It takes baby steps to get there and all actions in between are just fine.  You are doing great.



-- Edited by PP on Friday 13th of June 2014 08:53:28 AM

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Paula
likemyheart


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You don't have to be an A to be that way towards women - my first ex was the same way, when he wanted it I was expected to just suddenly be ready; whenever he was in the mood I was supposed to be too. I don't think THAT part is as much an alcoholic issue as it is a male living in these times - issue. I surmise it is due to so much x rated stuff available in which the female is always ready and loving it when "surprised" by the male wanting "it". I think there are a lot of guys who experience a lot of x-rated material when they are in formative years and never get that real women aren't like that!

Of course add a few drinks into the mix and the anger comes at being rejected, or their dysfunction (and boy isn't that part fun?)

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pinkchip


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I know how men are. They are all visual and tactile. If they like the way you look and feel, they want to have sex and that is a constant. They don't get that women are like curling irons that need time to heat up OR they don't care.

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Mattie


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It sounds like a self-absorbed not-listening issue.  I don't believe there's any way you're at fault or need to make amends.  What you asked of him was completely normal.  You have asked him in the past not to wake you up, and he woke you up; right there he is trespassing on a boundary (and one that I think anyone reasonable would find quite reasonable).  And then once he was determined to wake you up, he wanted you to be instantly willing and ready not only not to be annoyed about being woken up, but to switch gears into intimacy.  I swear 75% of what you read about women and intimacy is that there's no on-off switch and they need to warm up slowly!  You've told him, the media tells him (I mean when you actually read about it) -- it's not secret information!  So now he's trying to cross two boundaries and just get what he wants when he orders it.  It sounds as if he wasn't interested in whether you might be interested or enjoy it; he just wanted what he wanted.  Not a way to win a partner over.  And then on top of that he tries to guilt you about it.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had a low level of drinking going on that night, although it doesn't take alcohol for someone to be self-absorbed. 

Now he may try to get into fights about this.  Remember you don't have to have an argument to maintain your point of view.  "I've told you what I need -- not to be woken up, and to be given him to warm up.  That wasn't the night for those.  I don't think it's helpful to dwell on it further.  I'm going to make a cup of tea; want some?"

Keep on taking good care of yourself.



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Luiza


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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes he probably had one or two drinks last night but he definitely was not drunk.....and this makes the situation even worse. So, he does not need to be drunk to act like this. It is who he is. He is not acting like that all the time but it certainly wasn't the first time he tried to get intimate that way. I know it is not an alcohol issue but it is one of his excuses for drinking so much. I will keep my serenity whatever outcome.

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Sometimes the smallest step in the right direction ends up being the biggest step of your life. Tip toe if you must but take the step.
KennyFenderjazz


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He wants intimacy. One of teo results - he gets it or not. If he doesnt get it he has an excuse to go pout and drink. If he gets it, he gets an excuse to celebrate and drink. Its a win/win/win situation for him.

If you dont like it you dont like it. You dint need to check reasonableness, but of course you are welcome to! You know yourself and if you dont/can do something a simple explanation to him should suffice.

Kenny

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neshema2


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pinkchip wrote:

I know how men are. They are all visual and tactile. If they like the way you look and feel, they want to have sex and that is a constant. They don't get that women are like curling irons that need time to heat up OR they don't care.

 OMG...this hit me....my FIRST X,  was like that....no consideration for me, no huggy squeezy, kissy kissy, no romance at all.........hell , he made love to me like he was double parked!!!! 



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hotrod


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Neshema Maybe he was!!!!: :)

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Betty

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el-cee


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Lol, funny nesh and hotrod.x

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grateful2be


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It's been so many years for me, I can't even remember any e/s/h to share but I sure loved what Paula said about love expressing itself differently as we change and grow and continue to remain true to ourselves. I so agree with that based on my own experience. I've learned that to say "yes" when I mean "no" in any area of my life including that part of my life that ended so many years ago is to keep my true Self trapped. I've also learned that I can erect boundaries that are right for me even if another person doesn't agree. I don't have to feel guilty because they don't agree. I can just be grateful that I've learned what works for me and what doesn't and honor that. Thanks for this thread, Luiza. Thanks for the laughs, too, that I got in reading some of our family's replies. Loved Kenny's "its a win/win for him" wisdom. So, so true, Kenny. Blessings, Luiza.

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Luiza


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Thank you guys so much.
Everything turned out just fine. I am glad that I was able to Let go and let God.
I am specially glad for keeping my boundaries firmly in place and learning how to teach people to treat me. Not only my husband but a lot of other people that would take advantage of my fear of rejection.
I will say NO when I feel like. I will stop being a people's pleaser.


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Sometimes the smallest step in the right direction ends up being the biggest step of your life. Tip toe if you must but take the step.
grateful2be


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Standing up for your Higher Self - that real YOU - deserves an Amen (So be it!). Glad it all turned out well for you, Luiza. (That's a lovely name btw)

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Debilyn


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well then he says he will only take so much then leave? oh thats attractive.

I sure get it. If someone is not nice to you or shows they care, i mean you don't even want to talk and surely no intimacy. He knows it. It was the A in him talking.

Remember they are in everything for themselves. Selfishness is  a major part of being A.

Guilty for what? not acting like a prostitute?

A huge one here, "To Thine Own Self be True." I woulda said there is the door budy. i have before too!

with no respect or care, i stopped cooking, doing his wash. I did nothing for him anymore.

you just taught him how you deserve respect! good for you! believe me he knows you are the best thing that ever happened to him! hugs!



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Debilyn


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ps. ur post was great, long short does not matter, just share! (c:



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Putting HP first, always  <(*@*)>

"It's not so much being loved for ourselves, but more for being loved in spite of ourselves."

       http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/meetings/meeting.html            Or call: 1-888-4alanon
sunshine23


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My AH is exactly that way! He feels that I should be as ready as him. That the anger and resentment from 5 mins ago can be resolved with intimacy and all is well. Even after moving out, he texted hurtful things which gave me sleepless nights. How I failed my wifely duty, how I rejected him so he has to drink, ...
The truth is I tried to be accommodating but he still drinks right after sex. So I made the choice to live for my recovery not do things hoping for his recovery.

You did what you need to do for your well being. If he chooses to drink because of that, it is his choice.

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missmeliss


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You just described the past 8 years of my life. I think he actually waited until I was asleep just so he could wake me up and insist that I be switched on and ready to ride. If I gave in he would get sulky afterwards because "he could tell I didn't enjoy it". If I said no, he would be sulky because I don't care about him blah blah blah and he's going to watch porn/pick up another woman/ whatever. The only thing he would accept would be me waking up and bouncing around as if it was the best fun I had ever had. But never once did he try a different approach even though I KNOW he actually knows how to treat a lady and set the mood if he wants to. Wow, are they ALL like this?

It was all a game, I finally realised, and I stopped playing and stopped sleeping with him completely. He pretended he didn't know why, but he did and I refused to even discuss it with him. He can play his silly power games all by himself!!

Anyway, glad you are sticking to your boundaries. No way is it acceptable to be woken up like that, after you have said you don't like it. I endured it for years and it was just awful.

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Rusty Angel


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Hi Blessed.   I can relate......it is hard to feel rejected intimately.   Makes a gal feel unattractive, undesired, unloved.   Even though we are a bit older, we're not dead and still have needs.   My A does a combo pak of alcohol and Rx narcotics......a real downer......eats away and ultimately kills all their sex drive.   Hurts to be rejected in this way, among others.   They prefer the comfort of their hazy, buzz induced, self indulgent pampering.......let 'em have it I say!!    There......I've had my vent for the day!!!

 

 



-- Edited by Rusty Angel on Monday 23rd of June 2014 09:51:11 AM

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