The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Well, my AH sat me down and had the, "I'm an alcoholic and you were right" talk. He admitted to his insanity, he praised me for being stubborn with my program and for holding the home and our lives together and for not kicking him out. He has found a sponsor and says he is ready to jump fully in to AA recovery. He said each meeting gives him more clarity and he's admitted he's not out of the woods. He also said that he knows there are no guarantees that our marriage will make it because of the stuff he's said and done in the past and he accepts that.
So, it all sounds well and good. He even admitted to being a dry drunk for all those sober years. Only time will tell how things will go. Quite frankly, I am still done at this point. I know how hard recovery is, I know the statistics(they tell you in AA how hard it is to get sober and stay sober), etc. He also told me that if I had left him a year ago, he most likely would have ended his life or done something drastic because he wouldn't have been able to handle it. Not sure how to take that, because I wonder if he realizes that I'm already thinking of leaving soon. Sigh.....why can't marriage be simpler?? I'm just tired of all of it.
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
He also told me that if I had left him a year ago, he most likely would have ended his life or done something drastic because he wouldn't have been able to handle it. Not sure how to take that, because I wonder if he realizes that I'm already thinking of leaving soon. Sigh.....why can't marriage be simpler?? I'm just tired of all of it.
that sounds very guilt tripping you to me....manipulative....."throw in the i will die thingy" to keep her feeling sorry for me.....oh yea, been there and done that.......U R NEVER responsible for another's choices, even their suicide......i get so peed off when someone throws that at me....had my AH#1 do that and i flat out told him, that if he kills himself it is his choice not mine, not my crime, not my legal or spiritual responsibility.....its a "head job" to keep you feeling sorry...he must smell u have had enough and now he pulls the "end of life" crapola.......
please keep working yoru program....get with a sponsor or good/trusted recovery mate for support, work the steps, and slogans.......live for you...he is on his own...alanon is for us...not the drinker/ drugger/ abuser, etc....
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
You will know when you know and you will know when it's right for you. After all he's going to get sober or not .. what are you going to do. Stick close to your program and keep the focus on you.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Nobody knows what they would have done a year ago. Well, actually they do. They already did it. I can detect just the slightest shift of body language in my loved ones and I can change my response to match it fairly easily if I am really paying attention to them. The disease is baffling, clever and powerful. It knows what it knows, too. That language is hooking language no matter how sincere it might sound in my experience. The antidote is our program. By practicing the program, and listening to myself, I have found the way to go for me whether or not my loved one tries something new for a day, a month or a year. My decisions can be made based on what I want and what I need and not on what the disease's behavior dictates. I used to get tripped up by all that hooking language - "You're the only one for me." "If you weren't there, I don't know what I'd do." "I might kill myself if you ever leave me." "I would have killed myself if you left me." "You are the only person who has ever loved me." "You are the only person I have ever loved." On the surface it sounds sincere. At the root of it is the disease. I understand the fatigue. I have felt it in relationship to the disease's hooks as well - not just in my As, but in me.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 10th of June 2014 08:28:21 AM
Yes to what Jerry says. It's manipulation, regardless of the sincerity. Listen to your feelings. They are your own hard-earned wisdom. You can leave or stay, but have it be your own decision.
I postponed my action because of my AH's words. I got distracted by what he said. I'm not saying you will, but my path became more clear when I could give my own voice the floor.
Honor yourself.
In-person meetings are so helpful to me. They let me internalize that I am not alone, I am not crazy, and I am not a failure if my actions are not on someone else's schedule.
I thought about the manipulation thing, too, but I think he was just being honest. I don't know that he would have actually killed himself, but I do know that he would have hit the bottle hard and that would have been devastating to him and possibly to others, if he were driving. For now, I know my program is for me and I am so grateful to my sponsor and what she has offered me so far.
One other thing that bothered me was that he said he wanted to tell our son all about it. I know I can't control what he says or does, but I guess I just don't want my son to get false hopes based on what dad says. We have no idea what tomorrow will hold. For today, I am still in a holding pattern, working on finding a job, getting my son's sophomore schedule going and writing up the syllabus', etc. I really can't focus on this mess of a marriage right now, it's too much for me. It's like what they say in the greeting part of meetings: Living with an alcoholic is too much for most of us.
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
He's a stumbling newcomer now with giant issues like most A A newcomers. I have hope for him from all the background I've heard. He is stubborn and I think it may convert to willingness and determination. As for you...just for today, take the positive. This all happened to give you alanon. Now he has AA. The seed is at least planted. Your son will have healthier parents in the long run
You guys may have a chance where it was doomed before. It will be okay. He has his own fellowship now and that is a blessing.
Your A may actually have been talking from what he thinks is an honest place in his heart. It may very well be awhile before he really discovers that that place that he thinks is honest actually is a pathological liar bent on destroying him.
Or, he may be yanking your chain so well that you don't even feel the tug on the chain.
Either way, keeping the focus on your side of the street means you don't have to figure that out.
Thanks for the input everyone. Right now, I'm struggling with anger still. One of the things he did say was that he felt that I was punishing him by being in Al Anon and by being 'stubborn'(he used this word repeatedly in describing how I was/am) and praised me for being more stubborn than he could ever be. If I'm honest, right now I feel nothing for our marriage and I'm still contemplating moving out and being on my own. I'm just not sure what recovery would look like on him or on us right now because we've been so dysfunctional and unhealthy for so long!
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
Sounds very backhanded. I hate those comments. Crazy making need not be so obvious. Seriously though, I could understand the need for space for both of you. Separation has it's merits for his sobriety also even though I'm betting you will hear otherwise not that it matters. What you need for you matters. Just saying for whatever it's worth that I think living on my own in my early sobriety forced me to work the program even harder because I knew I'd fall flatter on my face than ever if I did not with no enabler. Just my ESH for what it's worth. I thought it might help you in case you felt you needed to stay just because he's in AA now.
Well, i'm going to AA, isn't that what you wanted? My ex did that, calling from the lodge of course and continuing his party-hardy lifestyle. Like going into a church doesn't make you a Christian and going into a garage doesn't make you a car, going into an AA meeting doesn't mean you are recovered.
Sorry you got grumpy - my ex would say after he'd pushed me into one of our fights. sorry you're being stubborn - shows me he is bent on blaming you for everything wrong.
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
LMH, well, he did praise me for my stubbornness, LOL, does that mean it's a good quality in me? I didn't try to explain what my true actions were and how it related to my program and what detachment means, etc.
__________________
Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
Well it's interesting that he would say that you are doing good except that darn Alanon program .. LOL .. mine did that too .. being separated for me has helped me a great deal know what I couldn't live with again and know what I wouldn't live with again.
You don't need to JADE your actions Andromeda .. that is not his business at this point .. if he's going to AA he's going to keep the focus on his recovery and realize that you need to do the same. What LMH said about just because someone says something doesn't make it true.
I'm having to really grab on to that lesson at the moment.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Andromeda, my AH always says I am punishing him. He doesn't like the fact that I moved out and put up boundaries. Once they see we are no longer a doormat, they don't like it and act like big babies. That's been my experience anyway. Hang in there and do what you need to do for yourself!
I'm sorry but I feel it's him knowing things are changing and he has to stop it now. He sees your change deep down inside and fear will set in. Just remember......actions not words is what you look for.
Your his enabler for a comfortable life at this moment. Somebody to turn to when things get tough. Somewhere to go and not be alone. If he truly knows he needs help he will seek it out and seek it from you.
Take care...and yes we need to get together.
((( hugs )))
-- Edited by Cathyinaz on Thursday 12th of June 2014 02:33:09 PM
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
If he is truly aware of his illness then that has got to be a good thing but the whole if you left I would kill myself nonsense still sounds like alcoholism to me. Its a form of control, hes planting a seed in your mind in an attempt to make you scared to leave him. Manipulation is one of the classic symptoms. I hope he is on the road to recovery but its an easy word to say, it also buys you both time which may be why it keeps you in it when you feel like your done. Limbo land sounds like a horrible place, the whole should I shouldnt I, or i will but wait hes doing this or that. Is there serenity in it? Or is it still part of the denial? Having a plan b might help, a plan of escape if you do decide to leave or a plan c where you have other options that lets him get on with whatever he chooses while you keep your serenity. I think leaving or staying takes strength but I think the waiting for..... was the worst part and took up way to much energy.x
Cathy, I felt exactly as what you stated. He knows I handled his lost phone issue with the limo company for him. He knows I take care of everything around the house and that I pay the bills, schedule everything, etc. I keep things running and that gives him a comfort zone. He has been to a meeting every day since last Friday and he seems sincere in working his program. He had mentioned that he found a guy who he was going to ask to be his sponsor but I don't know if that happened yet.
As for what El Cee mentioned about him killing himself: He never came right out and said that, it was an insinuation from him where he said, "It would have been the end...." He's always been good with words.
And, as for the punishment wording: he was referring to the past. He says now that he sees why I had to do what I did and that was the stubbornness I implemented once I got into program.
Oh, and I don't think I brought this up on these boards yet, but I have a part time job to start this summer. A friend of mine who is a very well-respected realtor in town is launching a new business where she will be hired to do public speaking and motivational speaking. She has been writing a weekly newsletter for 4 years now and wants to put it into a ebook format for Kindle. She asked me to help her put the books together and get them published through Kindle's formatting and she said this would be a great thing to start a new resume for myself. She said her LLC would go on my resume as a legitimate company and that, since she's so well connected in radio and in real estate, that something like this might open doors for me in the future. I might also be helping her with her website design and in launching this new company depending on how things progress on her end. I had emailed her last month to see if we could meet and if I could pick her brain about how to set up a resume, what kind of jobs she sees out there that I could maybe do from home, etc and she emailed me back and said, "Wow, B, your email was so timely because I'm looking for someone to help me with a publishing project!"
So, as for me, I am working on myself(finally finishing working the steps, LOL), getting my son's high school stuff organized, and getting ready to actually do real 'work' in the real world and trying to do something I've never done before. I was a stockbroker before I had my son but having been an English minor and a journalism major (communications), I'm hoping that this book thing will launch me on a different path than I was on before.
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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
Andromeda: That sounds so promising for you! I'm glad you have this new experience to look forward to over the summer! Congratulations on finishing up the steps, too!
You know your post sounds like my old post . I can relate to all you say . I don't want to stay on this roller coaster any more I'm tired and want to get off of this to .
He's a newbie and has newbie thoughts and feelings and awareness. If he said those things that way for me I would imagine that he has been talking to others who know more than him maybe from inside the meetings or even a sponsor. It doesn't matter and didn't for me when the day came for me to take back my life and learn I should have never forfeited to anyone else for any reason. I felt horrible because I did horrible stuff to myself and I had to correct that. Time takes time and I used it to get into and work and stay in my recovery which I am still doing right now. When I focused on that with the encouragement of the program and my sponsorship and took the focus and responsibility back onto myself for three years my exwife and I realized that we loved each other and had no reason to be married. She recovered herself and me myself. "Love is the complete and total acceptance of every other human being for exactly who they are". That definition was given to me by an Al-Anon member (of course another woman) after a Wednesday Night Family Group and I noticed that it doesn't include the word alcoholic or any relative or friend. Now I can love you and everyone here at MIP and all else equally without reservation. Keep it simple and it works. I don't here that you are on the roller coaster...maybe he is a bit. Getting on the coaster is a choice and I don't hear that you made it. I hear you've done the opposite. Great for you. In support with the rest of the family. (((((hugs)))))
I hope you both make it.
-- Edited by Jerry F on Thursday 12th of June 2014 11:00:01 PM
