What the Essay Posts brought to mind - Al-Anon Family Group

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

What the Essay Posts brought to mind

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

OMGOSH .. LMH I just spit my soda .. when you were talking about the Nun and childbirth .. my grandma who was a late bloomer considering the time she was in her late 20's back in the day before having my mom .. she was moaning while in labor and the labor and delivery nurse turned to her and said well honey .. that baby has to come out the same way it went in .. I can only imagine the utter shock that sent through my grandma (being MY grandma .. LOL!). Ironically my mom is an only child .. LOL!

The essay posts make me feel as if I did something wrong and I should have been able to fix what was wrong in my marriage and with my qualifier .. I didn't read them .. they all smack of what you describe very accurately .. if you do this then everything will be ok.

One of the chapters we are working on in my meeting is How Alanon Works Chapter 3 I believe page 32 - 33,34 I think .. anyway that whole chapter is just amazing and it's taken us a long time to get through that part just because of the information. Something the book mentioned was how not every ending ends with a happy ever after story and wouldn't it be nice if there was that secret recipe that if you do this then your qualifier would find sobriety and with sobriety comes woo hoo it's all happy go lucky. It is so damaging to people both ones seeking sobriety and people who live with it. There are success stories, two people in recovery and sometimes it is the one person in recovery, and with those stories comes people who have to walk a different journey apart from the ones they love. This is not a one size fits all disease and there is no one size fits all in recovery. The recovery program is there for people to walk it or not ... the happy ever after may look different than it was coming in it's still a happy ever after. :)

Hugs S :)

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

The essays make me think of counselors who "know" because of their expensive education, everything about addiction but they really know nothing because they've not experienced it first hand or even off-handedly. It makes me think of the suggestion that if alcohol is a factor in your marital problems, be sure to seek a marriage counselor well-versed in addiction. I had a boss once who while describing her child's birth at a catholic hospital remembered the nun/nurse telling her the pain wasn't that bad and she spat back - "how the H*** do YOU know!".

The other thing I get from the essay posts is that they feel like a great big "SHOULD", and I like not being shoulded.

**************************************
I think this is one of the things that turned me off, too........i had a shrink, christian counsellor, smart gal but was NOT an abuse survivor of my kind of abuse.....she "insisted" I "must" forgive my offender or god would not forgive me...............i told her "who the H*** are you to TELL me I "must" and "should" and "have to" forgive my offender or i won't be forgiven"......what kind of god is not gonna forgive my "fixable-amendable" sins for which i have owned, accepted responsibility, and made amends????? oh she really ticked me off...."telling" me i gotta 4give him.....I told her its god's job to 4give the wicked..the truly wicked are not my job to 4give and i fired her on the spot.....ended the convo right there and walked away........

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Okay here I am being the lone horse again but that is just me. The essay made me go uh-oh I use silence as a weapon.

I also agree with what you guys wrote as well.

-- Edited by Truth on Sunday 8th of June 2014 03:36:29 PM

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh I love the nun story - thank you for making me laugh out loud!
And I agree, I think it is so difficult for a relationship counsellor to understand the crazy dynamics of a marriage influenced by alcohol. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I wouldn't have believed it.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

milkwood wrote:
Oh I love the nun story - thank you for making me laugh out loud!
And I agree, I think it is so difficult for a relationship counsellor to understand the crazy dynamics of a marriage influenced by alcohol. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I wouldn't have believed it.

this is exactly why good ole 12 steps has been the best for me......i have a better chance of finding folks who can relate to me, share their stories (god forbid they suffer what i did) but abuse is abuse in a lot of instances and i have had more help..more support...more great e/s/h and more valuable feedback HERE in 12 steps then any shrink....except that nurse i had about anger management...he was very very good...and this old christian counsellor i had who sadly passed away...i wanted to renew our relationship but found out she passed.....what a great counselor and worked on a sliding scale....i still benefit from the seeds she planted in my heart....RIP Linda...I will never 4get you

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Actually maybe I use it as defense. Not sure on this one yet.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Well said likemyheart. I do not think anyone truly disagreed with the material shared but felt that this was information that they already knew. There is no one size fits all in recovery. HP speaks to each of us and we each must learn to have the courage to go within and find the answers that are there for each of us

Living with the disease of alcoholism has distorted our thinking and. I believe that this Board and Alanon are all about finding the tools that will enable us to regain our sanity, self esteem and ability to respond and not react.

Discussion of the tools of recovery and what works for each person enables each to share their personal ESH and grow. Having someone point out the end result without giving the way to get there is counterproductive

Good topic

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

yes and I responded to those posts in that way. I don't like the must do this, the should do that. Plus I do not like to peg people. Not every situation is the same, not everyone responds the same.

This is why owning what you share as a person, not a paper feels so much better. No one is saying this is how it is period, this is my own experince right or wrong.

I want to say those posts felt like someone who was arrogant and bullying others. NOT to say if they said their own experience it would have felt that way.

When talking about people, there is just no one way about it, now shoulds, musts, gotta do it this way....

good post!

(ok now i am trying to remember is this like my heart or likes dogs but is andromeda. ugh. please for petes sake forgive my tired brain! lol)

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

smile This week I was at an AA open meeting with a relative...

sitting behind me was a real long-timer,

when the Trad. 7 basket came round it ended up at his feet.

I picked it up and took it to the table- an act of courtesy which he acknowledged, with his eyes.

Later he gave me some time and we swapped yarns.

We cannot expect each and every longtimer to pour forth fountains of wisdom. Y'all know I am a case in point!

But in my view the opportunity to ascertain whether the new poster had great insight and wisdom was lost.

If he does choose to log in here again, I would like him to know that he was not alone! aww

David.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

David This member has not been banned and is welcome to return and share.

I do believe that we were making the point that,:"The Fountains of Wisdom" that he poured out were not appreciated because it was wisdom that we all had and knew very well.

I am here to learn how to recover from living with the disease of alcoholism . To regain my lost sanity and to develop new tools to reclaim my self esteem, self worth and learn how to respond and not react.

We are not here to be lectured because we could all, no doubt have give nthe same lecture to others. Talking the talk is different from walking the walk

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

hotrod wrote:
David This member has not been banned and is welcome to return and share.

I do believe that we were making the point that,:"The Fountains of Wisdom" that he poured out were not appreciated because it was wisdom that we all had and knew very well. We are here to learn how to regain our lost sanity and to develop new tools to reclaim our self esteem, self worth and learn how to respond and not react. We are not here to be lectured because we could all, no doubt give the same lecture to others. Waking the walk is much different that talking the talk

100% agree

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Debilyn wrote:
yes and I responded to those posts in that way. I don't like the must do this, the should do that. Plus I do not like to peg people. Not every situation is the same, not everyone responds the same.
This is why owning what you share as a person, not a paper feels so much better. No one is saying this is how it is period, this is my own experince right or wrong.I want to say those posts felt like someone who was arrogant and bullying others. NOT to say if they said their own experience it would have felt that way.
When talking about people, there is just no one way about it, now shoulds, musts, gotta do it this way....good post!
(ok now i am trying to remember is this like my heart or likes dogs but is andromeda. ugh. please for petes sake forgive my tired brain! lol)

AGAIN....100% agree

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't think we missed anything. Rather...The opposite. We (especially our moderators and other seasoned members) recognized a violation of traditions. In this case, tradition 11 was being broken with someone trying to pass off his own writings (so he said) as alanon. The tradition is set up to keep us equals and to avoid anyone being a "spokesperson" for alanon...and that was exactly what this guy was doing. Personally, I only saw cut and paste psych 101 crap that I learned within a week of being in the program but also in my freshman year psych classes. So, I believe we did just what a responsible alanon group does by adhering to traditions. Those safeguard the program. If I went to any face to face meeting with my new book and said " Hey guys I'm going to share my new alanon book I wrote from my years of experience in alanon," I would fully expect to get shut down.

I'm wondering if people even know what The Traditions are? It seems pretty clear to me. I checked and alanon does adhere to the same basic principles as AA...similar to the steps. They are helpful to know.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks Mark I agree I love the traditions and appreciate the fact that you mentioned there importance in your share

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

David: Although I can appreciate your concern that a poster doesn't feel alone, I do think that if I showed up anywhere - not just Al-Anon rooms or MIP - posted my summary of a program or my credentials or my title or my achievements or my successes or my contacts without even introducing myself or even being asked for that type of information about myself, I could expect to feel alone - especially given my age and my experiences in life. There is no place that I can think of that would allow me to impose myself or what I bring on them sight unseen. That feeling of standing alone would be a natural consequence of my inappropriate and disrespectful behavior in relationship to the whole and not the other way around. I don't think MIP can be the place where anybody can do anything at any time. It might be expected from time to time, but it simply won't be a long-term reality from my experience here and in life.

Although it was PC who first stated the violation of the 11th tradition and has again restated it and its purpose, I, too agree that the posting was a violation of the 11th tradition.

I'm uncomfortable not being able to agree with you, David. I do want to say that I hope you know your viewpoint of this is something I have heard, noted, understood. I simply can't in good conscience agree that my view of this situation and my responses were out of order or that any other member who invited him to share and then stated what they thought and believed was out of order either. I also would not be willing to entertain or welcome additional postings similar to the essays because it would be patronizing and dishonest of me to act one way when I'm really thinking and feeling another in relation to this type of thing. Perhaps you are seeing something I don't see here and I trust that if a poster returns similar to this one, you will do what you want to do with and for the previous poster. I am glad there are different people who see different things on our board and respond accordingly. Regards.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 8th of June 2014 09:56:35 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 8th of June 2014 10:27:42 PM

John · ~*Service Worker*~

Having read the post and the replies to it, as well as this thread... the only thing that seems to have struck my mind was... John Gray, a renewed writer about relationships, including but not limited to "Men are from Mars, Woman are from Venus". He has made 10's of millions of dollars writing about how to develop, nurture and maintain intimate relationships. Several Best Sellers.

Ironically, he has been married 6 times and divorced 4 and one committed suicide. I think he would be a better source for getting information from about divorce court, how to deal with the suicide of a loved one, how to go through the hardship of a divorce, or how to keep the soon to be ex out of your pockets, than a intimate relationship specialist.

Most of his fans, avid readers, don't know this about him... they just read and take him at his word that he knows what he is talking about, and unfortunately, most who read his material are already in relational trouble when they step into the self help section of the book store...

To me, without this information being at the forefront of his introductions, he is a dark shadow, a ghost of what he wish he could be and do. When the poster of Relationships revealed so little about himself... he was a dark shadow... not revealing himself, or with little to no self disclosure. I wonder why that is?

John

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

The people who recognised this writer have got a really hard time over this, the whole board got a hard time. The whole thing yesterday was due to this too and now some people are leaving this forum because of it. Who would have thought it could cause this much damage?

-- Edited by el-cee on Wednesday 11th of June 2014 02:19:05 AM

-- Edited by el-cee on Wednesday 11th of June 2014 02:31:53 AM

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

Don't should on me and take what you like and leave the rest, both great slogans! Traditions are taught in my home meeting and I love having the awareness that comes with being in al-anon and learning all I can on my recovery journey. I am wondering why so many are taking this so personally however. In my daily life I run into people I disagree with and have learned it's a good thing when someone makes me feel triggered and I can dig down and figure out what it is that has me bothered and move through it. We are and will continue to grow through this one too. Sending everyone love and support on this journey!

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