On Relationships - Al-Anon Family Group

Jerry Froggie · Member

On Relationships

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Jerry,although all your posting are informative, I feel that we are all intelligent people, who know all these details deep within. I do not believe that we need an educational tutorial on how to interact in relationships.

Living with the disease of alcoholism distorts all reality and coping mechanisms. Our thinking becomes distorted by trying to force solution and we become irritable and unreasonable without even knowing it. Alanon offers successful constructive tools that enabled me to face life on life's terms with courage, serenity and wisdom.

Offering alanon tools on an alanon web site is the best way to relate to people who are coping with a disease. Living one day at a time, focused on ourselves, trusting HP , working the Steps with the slogans are the answer to our lives not a review of what we should be doing according to your assessment.

I would appreciate hearing the tools that you are using to live life.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Jerry, I agree with Betty. I am interested in YOUR life and YOUR experiences. I have a saying that I love "the sage walks quietly among us"....

Jerry Froggie · Member

These are my tools learned from 40 years of Al-Anon. They were taught to me by generous sponsors and mu own hard knocks.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

smile Nice to see your postings here...

...I don't post here as much as i used to... I am a long timer...

from New Zealand... but currently in the United States on holiday [vacation...] aww

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

It's hard for me to believe that you have been in Al-Anon for 40 years. I've been in it for 35 years and have never experienced any member of my fellowship writing papers on what is said in meetings and circulating them for publication anywhere. I am in support of what Betty is saying to you here. If you've been in Al-Anon, what tools are you using to do what you think is key to families and relationships? What are your experiences? How have you detached from loved ones in crisis? What step do you practice most? What works for you in relationship to your addicted children if you have any? What works for you in relationship to your recovering spouse if you have one? What have you learned is codependent behavior in yourself? How do you mind your own business and not others' business or your HP's business? Al-Anon is a fellowship of equals no matter how long we've been in program. We learn from each other and what we learn is generally written in our Conference Approved literature and Forum magazine. We don't circulate papers that come from an unknown source who appears to me to be using this message board for some unknown gain.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 5th of June 2014 10:43:19 AM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 5th of June 2014 10:44:13 AM

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Jerry I do not see any tools---

I see assumptions and what we should do--- I do not see the Tools to achieve these goals.

I too have been in alanon for over 40 years and I think that sharing alanon tools and principles is what it is all about.

This is a fellowship of equals and being in progam for over 40 years is admirable but does not make us experts-- we are still very falible human beings who can help others by sharing our ESH and not giving lectures

-

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

I actually agree with what he is writing. It is just hard to put into practice. I think both people have to be extremely healthy before it can be done. My sponsor that I loved taught me this as well.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

She taught me communication is the tool.

karma13 · Senior Member

I agree with his writing as well..Nice post Jerry :) Thank you for sharing your experience with me ;) I also feel that some of us are not being very welcoming to Jerry. Different people work their program differently. This is a public forum. Jerry is not hurting anyone with his post and I also feel we have no proof that anonymity has been broken as was assumed. Not everyone is comfortable sharing their personal experience with the disease. My old sponsor was a person that would not share her personal experience. That was ok. It took me a while to realize that, but everyone is unique and everyone adds to the program in their own special way. Welcome Jerry :)

-- Edited by karma13 on Thursday 5th of June 2014 12:13:11 PM

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

hotrod wrote:
Jerry I do not see any tools---

I see assumptions and what we should do--- I do not see the Tools to achieve these goals.

I too have been in alanon for over 40 years and I think that sharing alanon tools and principles is what it is all about.
This is a fellowship of equals and being in progam for over 40 years is admirable but does not make us experts-- we are still very falible human beings who can help others by sharing our ESH and not giving lectures

-

i agree with Betty and Grateful....I feel like I am in a "class room" when i read these posts, not in a caring EQUAL fellowship with a bunch of fallible, loving, imperfect yet loving alanons....i also don't go telling folks I have been in program 12 years b/c the newest newbie to the oldest oldie, we are all EQUAL....all open , I HOPE, to learn.....your posts reflect not a person open to learning, but one that is here to know/teach..........what step are you on????? step 7 I "HUMBLY" asked my higher power as i understand it to remove the shortcoming i am working on.....the key word is HUMILITY or HUMBLY ......and we add to that openess....willingness......we share on here our EXPERIENCE.....STRENGTH......HOPE.....so newcomers coming in don't feel intimidated and think "oh i dont' know crap, so i don't belong" and they give up b4 even trying......

some of the most poignant and huge lessons have come to me through newbies coming here, frightened, yet walking through their fears, anyway, to share their stories.....

What are YOU doing in YOUR program....what step are you on??? what slogans are you practicing this week????? i don't care if you have been here for 80 years.....I am only impressed by those who share their honest, open, humble and willing shares re: what part of the program they are working to deal with their life

we all come here and share our personal stories and you come here and give is a "class" and we know NOTHING about you except your 40 years in alanon.....don't forget....w/out strong program work, any of us are only one DAY away from slipping back into old, sick, self sabotaging patterns......

Please take what you can use and leave the rest

-- Edited by neshema2 on Thursday 5th of June 2014 12:38:02 PM

-- Edited by neshema2 on Thursday 5th of June 2014 02:27:13 PM

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

My sponsor taught me to cut some words completely out of my vocabulary as they put people on the defensive and invoke shame.

You should
I would have
You make me feel
I feel you

She taught me to say:

I feel blank, when you do blank, I prefer blank.

It does seem foreign at first, however it does work.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

It is called the feedback model.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Or a BIFF model.

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

karma13 wrote:
I agree with his writing as well..Nice post Jerry :) Thank you for sharing your experience with me ;) I also feel that some of us are not being very welcoming to Jerry. Different people work their program differently. This is a public forum. Jerry is not hurting anyone with his post and I also feel we have no proof that anonymity has been broken as was assumed. Not everyone is comfortable sharing their personal experience with the disease. My old sponsor was a person that would not share her personal experience. That was ok. It took me a while to realize that, but everyone is unique and everyone adds to the program in their own special way. Welcome Jerry :)

-- Edited by karma13 on Thursday 5th of June 2014 12:13:11 PM

I agree with you Karma.

I know that the guidelines in crosstalk are not imposed here at all.

Unlike a F2F meeting people can choose whether or not they want to log into anyone's shares.

If this is the way Jerry chooses to introduce himself, who are we to judge?

smile DavidG.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I think the posts are harmful, Karma, and I can't welcome essays. I also think that there has been no introduction by the poster, David, just two essays that were not asked for and are not Al-Anon. I don't trust the content and I don't trust the purpose for putting the essays on this board. And I'm willing to say so openly, honestly and the reason why. In meetings, a member would be asked to keep the focus on themselves and not on what they've summarized from sitting in meetings. I understand how others might see these essays differently than I do. But, I also have a responsibility to speak up when I believe something is harmful to me and maybe to others, too, and I have. If Jerry would like to tell us more about himself then I would be glad to welcome him and to relate to him differently. At this point, I'm standing up for what our program includes and that is sharing our experience/strength/hope with one another. Neither of these essays do that.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 5th of June 2014 03:48:24 PM

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I know what your saying grateful. I think this board is quite a close nit membership and most posters have built up trust before posting a kind of factual post like this. Most people share their experience with the wisdom and how they themselves have improved their lives with it. Sorry jerry but maybe your post comes off as a little arrogant for a newcomer, its like meeting someone for the first time and instead of introducing themself, they go full throttle into a list of dos and donts. I think there are other boards where this kind of info is more acceptable but we alononers live by the traditions and principles as best we can. We are affected by alcoholism so we appreciate the true meaning of sharing esh. Im not great at myself but I try.x

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

grateful2be wrote:
I think the posts are harmful, Karma, and I can't welcome essays. I also think that there has been no introduction by the poster, David, just two essays that were not asked for and are not Al-Anon. I don't trust the content and I don't trust the purpose for putting the essays on this board. And I'm willing to say so openly, honestly and the reason why. In meetings, a member would be asked to keep the focus on themselves and not on what they've summarized from sitting in meetings. I understand how others might see these essays differently than I do. But, I also have a responsibility to speak up when I believe something is harmful to me and maybe to others, too, and I have. If Jerry would like to tell us more about himself then I would be glad to welcome him and to relate to him differently. At this point, I'm standing up for what our program includes and that is sharing our experience/strength/hope with one another. Neither of these essays do that.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 5th of June 2014 03:48:24 PM

I go with grateful and el-cee, betty and i state again for myself.....this board has a community built up on familiarity and trust....and yes, thanks to our great moderators, betty and debilyn, we follow the rules and principles of alanon......we do watch the cross talk thing which is why i am comfortable here....deb and betty watch that big time.....so i , in friendship, disagree with the supporters of these "seminar" type posts......if Jerry would intro himself, his story, his what he is dealing with, i could adjust my thinking as the familiarity grows.....i dont' want to be preached to....got that at home....people thinking they know what is best for me....I keep the focus ALWAYS on ME, MY e/s/h and MY story and what i am doing to take care of me..............I, too am gonna stand to this...unless i see some "personalization" in these kind of posts, i will feel like this is "force fed" stuff that i do not care for...........

karma13 · Senior Member

I love that we can agree to disagree and we can each have our voices :) how wonderful :) :) :)

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

PP wrote:
Jerry, I agree with Betty. I am interested in YOUR life and YOUR experiences. I have a saying that I love "the sage walks quietly among us"....

LOVE that......."the sage walks quietly among us" well i guess i flunk out as a sage, LOL...I am the little prickly pear, I guess,

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

karma13 wrote:
I love that we can agree to disagree and we can each have our voices :) how wonderful :) :) :)

(((((((karma)))))))))) U R always gonna be one of my goodliest recovery buddies......thank you for being sooo true....."we can agree to disagree" and yes, we each have our voice.....a new thing for me after being stifled so long

karma13 · Senior Member

^ you are too funny :) i love you prickly pear :)

-- Edited by karma13 on Thursday 5th of June 2014 04:36:37 PM

karma13 · Senior Member

and yes that's one of the best things about the program..we recover our voices and our choices :) I love that freedom in myself and in others :)

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

el-cee wrote:
I think there are other boards where this kind of info is more acceptable but we alononers live by the traditions and principles as best we can. We are affected by alcoholism so we appreciate the true meaning of sharing esh. Im not great at myself but I try.x

i see this kind of post as cross talk....giving unsolicited advice, telling others how to act/feel/respond etc...I see nothing in the content which says "i did this, or this is what I felt/responded to in the situation of xxxxxxxxxxx that i was in"........and yep...al-anon has always been a faithful advocate of traditions and principles......and el-cee your posts have taught me much ....xxx

-- Edited by neshema2 on Thursday 5th of June 2014 04:45:43 PM

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

karma13 wrote:
^ you are too funny :) i love you prickly pear :)

-- Edited by karma13 on Thursday 5th of June 2014 04:36:37 PM

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((karma)))))))))))))))))))))))) back at ya

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Ditto to all that has been said.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

I love that too agree to disagree. Everyone has a right to their own opinions and to voice their concerns.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

karma13 wrote:
and yes that's one of the best things about the program..we recover our voices and our choices :) I love that freedom in myself and in others :)

ditto to this and ditto to grateful's dittoing!! wonder if "dittoing" is a word , or is it another neshema made up word like "goodliest" i say that like it really is in webster's which it is not.........oh well, i am a def. work in progress....

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

biggrin

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Your a lovable work in progress.x

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

el-cee wrote:
Your a lovable work in progress.x

xxoo

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Yeah. And patronizing presentations about "I statements" and shaming and "feedback" wheels are pointless and have nothing to do with alanon as well. Sorry. Those are actually very basic conflict resolution, communication and coping skills strategies usually used with children. What step does it relate to? If my sponsor tried to use freshman psychology stuff meant for children instead of ESH/steps, I would drop them and would encourage others to do so also. Many of us are therapists. It's like presenting the art of finger painting to professional artists (at least for many of us who, if not actually therapists, are well versed in self help readings). It is not for lack of education or elementary psychology/therapy knowledge that we come to this spiritual program to heal from the effects of other's drinking.

-- Edited by pinkchip on Thursday 5th of June 2014 05:43:35 PM

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Nemesha you are wonderful

I love your sense of humour.

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome Jerry

To bad what is happening with Nasa. I just love anything about space. One of my favorite astronauts was Story Musgrave.

Do you have a qualifier that brings you here or just giving us something we might need to hear. I think many of us have been here to hell looking for help before Al-anon. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. I think here we keep it simple and don't lecture or give advice. We want to comfort with our ESH and let people decide what is good for them.

Keep coming back because you are not alone....

Just a simple woman here.........

Luiza · Senior Member

I am new here and not even gone to an Al-Anon meeting yet and Jerry's two threads touched me somehow. I agree with some stuff and disagree with other.

I want to try the ' I statements ' and ditch the ' You messages '... I am a poor communicator, specially being a non native speaker leaving in an English speaking country.

However my mind is puzzled by:
*Above all, realize the other person is the most important person you are dealing with*
I do not understand this sentence at all. Would be nice if Jerry could explain better what he means.

Jerry Froggie · Member

As is said in Al-Anons closing. "...but let there be no gossip or criticism of one another. Instead, let the understanding, love and peace of the program grow in you one day at a time.

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

Karma I love that!!!! Thanks for the reminder. We recover our voices and our choices.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Didn't read any gossip here. It is also not a meeting, it's a message board. Furthermore, putting forth your own personal publications and calling them Alanon is a direct violation of the 11th tradition which states the program needs to remain anonymous at the level of press, radios, tv, and film. So if you care about what they say in closing meetings, I presume maybe you care about the traditions? Confused.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Jerry Froggie wrote:
As is said in Al-Anons closing. "...but let there be no gossip or criticism of one another. Instead, let the understanding, love and peace of the program grow in you one day at a time.

I don't see that here in this forum.....I see folks sharing their stories..their strengths, weaknesses, their program work, what step they are working on, what slogan they are practicing.....i see real stories from real people......and i have learned and experienced love and peace only through this program and my dedication to my program......

Truth · ~*Service Worker*~

I think it was a good reminder Jerry. Thanks for that. Nemesha I am glad you shared your story it helped me tremendously.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.