The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Letting it rule your life or being obsessed about it is allowing PTSD/or the abuser to kick your ass still, or it's embracing martyrdom. Neither of which are things my higher power wants for me and am grateful to have that clarity. It was a giant step in my recovery when I began refusing to suffer through life and living it instead. Just my thought today. Bless everyone.
Good thoughts for me to keep in mind today, pink. Thanks
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
What is PTSD, but I understand your message Pink, and I am understanding that while I still use martyrdom or victim as a reason to justity my why i did, do or feel that, I am standing in my own sunlight, I can feel it breaking away though, I have had a guard up with my husband and I know that if I am unable to lower it, I suffer too, I have lived in a situation where I allowed fear to dictate my mood around him, I am now able to set my own scene so to speak, and living from within outwards if that makes sence!
"Legitimately victimized"? Interesting term Pink...picture is still fractured for me. Will you expand on your perception? PTSD? ...got that. The etchings on the "active" subconscious from mental/emotional stressors formerly imposed on the conscious mental and emotional body. Drinking and using can do that which sometimes cause a discussion of drinking dreams and random ideation (drinking thoughts) I have that PTSD also. The smell of raw booze can still give me "chicken skin"; I can still revisit past drinking events and still recognize the taste of some alcohol brands without having conscious thought. It just comes to me on its own without asking or alerting me first. I can still hear my Alcoholic/Addicts laugh and voice even though I haven't seen or heard from or of her for 20 years and I live the trauma without willing to do it. None of this can or does hurt me. I don't have the past emotional/mental/spiritual and physical negative responses including fear.
What I got out of the phrase related to punishment where there was some judgment that I was wrong or had done something wrong and earned the negative reward. Kinda like saying that the disease is justified with what it does. The PTSD I have which was exacerbated in the military and then further exacerbated by other perpetrators of power and control actually was engineered within my alcoholic family from birth. I never believed they were justified so therefore rarely have accepted it as legitimate victimization. "There is no justification for violence (abuse)" is a spiritual mantra.
I have been victimised and I also think I had ptsd, well I had many symptoms of it that can resurface if triggered. Whist been victimised I still played a part in it. I allowed it and encouraged it by not doing the right thing, by not enforcing proper consequences like saying no and meaning it, by locking the door and not letting crazy in. I chose to try to convince the abuser to change, or charm/please the abuser to change or feed the abuser to change or guilt him into change.
I learned through my program that the power to stop being victimised and being a victim was all within me, it was never about outside changes that I was praying for, begging for. I was ashamed and blamed myself completely. I had to forgive myself, I came to believe that I did the best that I could with what I knew at the time. That freed me of the guilt and shame. I am not a vicitm anymore, yeeha!!!! and I seriously doubt I ever will be again so in a way it has been an experience that I can actually be thankful for in a way.
During this time in my life I had to own up to, accept and let go of many of my own bad behaviours. I did play the martyr and victim you know the whole damsel in distress, poor me, look what they are doing to me and look how nice I am, I will put up with anything so my love is such a strong love, im the best. I did get something from that. I got attention because I talked about it constantly, I was crap company, a few of my friends disappeared, I was a terrible listener and if I heard good stuff that was going on in their lives, I felt bitter and jealous, why cant I have a life like that!!!!! Poor poor me. Misery does like company but the opposite is also true. I got to check out of life, I thought well there is no point me trying this or that it will all end in misery.lol. My God when I think about my thinking!
Im a grown up now, what happens in my life belongs to me, im my own master, what I say goes now. I can look at myself and see the truth, the good and bad and I thank my higher power for this clear view of life that I am so grateful for. Some people never get it, people who dont and have not lived with alcoholism, most are in their own denial, its sad, they will never seek out alanon. Thanks for this post, got me thinking.x
We were victimised in our community when the government came and flooded the valley floor. It could have bin a good thing, with benefits all round, but for my family it wasn't.
The coming of the dam bought construction crews and they bought along AA, and Alanon. That was a great benefit.
I was raised in an alcoholic family... I was already dead set against authority. I over- reacted to what other people called "progress". Joining up with Alanon helped me deal with this.
This was a small town and people saw my car outside of the rooms. A lot of people thought I was at AA, and that I was an alcoholic myself- this was used against me.
Alcoholism is an illness. I do not believe in the stigma. I was proud to be called an alcoholic. I thrived being around recovering alcoholics. I started to trust people, especially men.
I had a lot to do with the dam years. Like brokering an irrigation scheme, getting our community facilities rebuilt, bebuilding the fruitgrowing industry. But I was hated by some people, and this carried on to the present day.
So just recently I just put my shoulder down and because to push against these thugs. I did not name them but I named what they done. I feel proud of this...
pinkchip, hon., I am not shore at all if this is on your topic.
What I learned in alanon was to open my mouth and share something. I had to push through the perfection barrier. I had to learn to cry sometimes. I had to learn to speak from the heart... ...I had to recognise emotion...
I know PTSD is real. Having it doesn't mean it's kicking your ass. For example Jerry - You have PTSD but also go to tons of meetings, help others, live in the solution, try and be active in government and with legislation, within your cultural community, and you enjoy your relationship with your wife and other family members.
Hence, you would be a good example of how to have hardships and NOT be a martyr or act like a victim even though you have been victimized and really have PTSD. Some people actually play the victim role and/or exaggerate PTSD because it's easier than taking responsibility. Sometimes there is no actual perpetrator and people perceive they are being slighted and victimized all the time. I used to do that.
I milked my issues with depression and being gay to then indulge in drinking, becoming alcoholic, making terrible relationship choices all the way up to age 36. I was a walking sob story martyr/victim that blamed everyone but me for my problems. There was always some cop out or reason why I couldn't just do the next right thing. I have been literally diagnosed with major depression and generalized anxiety disorder. I claimed "mental defect" as the reason to cling to misery for a good while... I thought God crapped on me and so I never strove for the best job, the best in relationships, the best physical health. I'm not perfect now either but I strive. I only suffered and settled before. That's all I ever did and I played Martyr the whole time I did it. In AA, I see fellows that have been through a lot...things way worse than me and they are living life to the fullest. In alanon, I see people who have sometimes been terrorized and seemed trapped in the most awful relationships, raised up in trying circumstances...yet they free themselves with the help of their HP, heal and become happy and have rich and full lives. So what's my excuse then to not enjoy this life I've been granted? What diagnosis, what person, what circumstance makes it so that I can't be happy? NONE. Both programs work like a giant wake up call for me to reject misery, suffering and hardship and live as best I can today.
Now, I do believe God has my back, wants good things for me, and if I don't like my situation, I can often change it. Acceptance is great, but so is changing things I can, and wisdom to know the difference....to not bang my head against the wall or cop out and do nothing or self-destruct....that's priceless. I'm grateful my spirit is awakened because it was dead/asleep for a long time.
Suffering sucks. Try not to do it if you don't have to. I know people die and tragedies happen - for this reason we can hold each other close, walk each other through the hard times, but stay positive and present for each other. I don't want to shame victims at all...just encourage resilience and being a survivor.
Well said, PC, thank you. I will say this because I have been thinking it. From my perspective, I see many on this forum who continually post from their victim/martyr persona. Yes, we have all been victimized and we all dance with our victim/martyr from time to time. We (this includes me) also victimize or (attempt to), or try to pull others into our victim experiences, which is more difficult for us to see, but is obvious to others. I will acknowledge it is difficult for me not to be more direct with some on this forum, I am not judging; I want to facilitate empowerment through nudges or shoves. I fully expect that this may trigger some strong feelings; I will say up front I understand completely. And I will add, take what you like and leave the rest. These are my humble opinions.
For all the things I've suffered at others' hand, there are those things that others have suffered at mine. I can't clean up what others have or are doing that have adversely affected me, but I sure can utilize the program to clean up what I think or do that adversely affects me and others, too. I also know that there are some folks who say they've been severely abused or are being abused and that simply isn't true. I can't guess at someone's motivation for saying they are being abused or have been abused when that isn't true, but I know that it happens. To me, legitimate abuse is actual, factual, oftentimes documented or can be collaborated by others in some way.
As a person who was physically abused, the last thing I wanted or want to do is stay trapped in continually thinking about it or the abuser. I had to find others to help me when I learned that trying to handle it all on my own even after my divorce but I spent little time on talking about it or thinking about it. Had I done that or do that, I would be re-victimizing my self. That 8 year period was enough for me. He was a very sick man. That is all I need to know or want to know about him. I was a naïve person who had no frame of reference for what I experienced and no place to go for help in those years. My Dad was the only help I could find beyond the divorce because that's the way it was back then in my area.
Those years are over and although memories resurface from time to time and some unhealed hurts from before the marriage, I am not a victim or even an abuse survivor. I'm just a woman who did the best I could with what I had to work with at the time and I'm proud of my accomplishments and my successes at this stage of my life. I'm also a woman who made choices that resulted in consequences that were harmful to me and to those I love. Again, I did the best I could at the time and I know that I have grown and will continue to make changes that benefit myself and my loved ones and never perfectly.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 1st of June 2014 09:25:08 AM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 1st of June 2014 02:47:50 PM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 1st of June 2014 09:34:39 PM
As I reflected on this thread, I realized that when I first into the rooms of Al-Anon I was so overwhelmed by my feelings of sadness, anger, resentment, self pity and fear I could see no other way. I did not realize that I have choices to think and feel differently and thought if I did so I would be phony and pretending. This was some of the same thinking that I needed to overcome before I could actually comprehend Al-Anon and appreciate the tools.
Being able to be completely honest about how I felt was a unique experience and one that was very frightening. Having learned to do that, I found that the support compassion offered to me enabled me to be able to have the courage to select the sponsor and begin working the steps.
It is here that I learned the truth that;" Pain is inevitable but suffering is optional". Using the third step, making the decision to turn my will over to this program was a no-brainer. Steps four through 12 cleared up the wreckage the past, enabled me to forgive myself and others and to resolve to live in the present moment with courage serenity and wisdom. It was a process and I'm glad that I embraced it as quickly as I did.
I pray that each person here finds the road that leads to recovery.
There is a huge difference in being victimized and being a victim! Yes .. crappy things have happened .. however do I continue to volunteer for them to control me (that's where I become the victim) or do I DO something about them because I no longer want to be controlled by that issue.
Thanks for the reminder Pink :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I can't say anymore but that I was a victim in my mind and didn't do anything about it but complain or cry. Now I work hard to change my ways and correct the wrongs I have done to myself. To let others control me is wrong...wrong on my part to let it happen. Simple mind here but I understand what I'm saying so enough said.
Thank you Mark...... ((( hugs )))
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
Need prayers on my end I'm sorry to cut into your threads I also suffer PTSD and many other Mentalhealth illness . It's hard to heal when you have other that won't let you .
Well said, PC, thank you. I will say this because I have been thinking it. From my perspective, I see many on this forum who continually post from their victim/martyr persona. Yes, we have all been victimized and we all dance with our victim/martyr from time to time. We (this includes me) also victimize or (attempt to), or try to pull others into our victim experiences, which is more difficult for us to see, but is obvious to others. I will acknowledge it is difficult for me not to be more direct with some on this forum, I am not judging; I want to facilitate empowerment through nudges or shoves. I fully expect that this may trigger some strong feelings; I will say up front I understand completely. And I will add, take what you like and leave the rest. These are my humble opinions.
I relate to this and a lot of the others....I do have PTSD and generalized anxiety...it is a physical/chemical response to long, sustained and severe trauma, however I finally got into recovery and my thought now is "yes, I do have a physical/mental condition....do i want to live in the problem/sickness OR focus on WHAT can I DO for ME?? to take CARE of me??? and hopefully miinimize the suffering????" that is where my thinking is at........i was at work 1 week ago and sitting doing my payroll and all of a sudden the panic attack came from NOWHERE...it slammed into me like a tsunami and I had to take a med....Dunno what / where it came from, what trigger came forth, was it a word?? a smell??? a gesture by a coworker/boss that reminded me of him???? i don't know, but my action was to try and tell myself "i am ok now, i am safe" affirms never worked much for me but i gave it a shot.....I also watch my diet for exacerbating foods that intensify my symptoms.....white products, processed foods.....I eat simple, organic or natural, minimize sugar, no added sugars, use honey/molasses/maple syrup instead of cane sugar, NO coffee...gave it up....i exercise ea. day b/c it burns negative chemicals, i practice mindfulness i even narrate what i am doing to force me to stay in the present, i do everything under the sun to minimize, control, manage my symptoms, but i still have to take klonopin for the anxiety/panic....i dont' get flashbacks and nightmares as bad, thanks to program, I am more at peace, but will I totally recover??? the damage to my CNS is perhaps to great, but ANYTHING i can do to cut it down is a gain.....I look for things that make me happy, avoid people who enjoy pushing my triggers, cut them out of my life, even....i set boundaries for myself and others and I stand to them......
I guess what i am saying is that like anyone with a disease, a diabetic or any other type of condition, I can take care of me or let this shit drag me down and I give up.....i choose to take care of me...work my program, and do everything I have researched to help me........good /natural foods....exercise...proper rest.....avoiding toxic people....sharing with others who are in my situation....being open about my condition but not soliciting sympathy, just being open about my limitations, what i can do and what i cannot do.......
the smell of vodka will send me like Jerry said into "chicken skin" b/c he force fed me vodka and orange juice to make me more compliant...14 years old and hes forcing that shit down my throat.....I have worked through a lot of stuff, but there are some things i cannot be around and i don't do it.......i was thrown out a 2nd story window, so i fear heights...dunno if i'll ever conquer my fear of flying.....like i have said...I have walked through many of my fears, but some are so bad, I just have to accept it and do my best.....i work my program about as hard as i can to overcome/manage/or at least minimize my suffering b/c I dont' want him to win....its as simple as that....i will be damned to hell before i let him win....I don't talk about the trauma unless it is encumbant on me to do so in order to work out a trigger....i mention it in the course of helping another, but don't go into the awful details b/c that was all done out w/my sponsors and what little therapy i could afford.....
like i am at the place where i do NOT want to keep talking about it b/c why keep picking on the same scab???? yea, work out the triggers as they arise and move on....i want to live in the present, however sometimes the past will "fall off the shelf" and i have to pick it up, go through it, then i can put it back up on the shelf, in a box and leave it....it seems to stay up on the shelf longer nad longer......
i do have physical damage, i know...these meds that i hate to take are a must in order for me to function....however i take herbal supplements to minimize having to take the klonopin....i have not increased my dose in all the years i have been on medication...that is a good thing...that is a result of my making life changes to help me....i made many changes b/c helping me was #1 priority.....most of my family are out of my life b/c they attack me and my condition......so they are out....
a lot of us with PTSD /Anxiety would give our interest in hell to NOT be this way, but chemical/electrical/physical damage was done to me b/c of the severity and longevity of my abuse....its a fact....it is what it is, i have to accept it, but i do not have to accept it ruling/controlling/ruining any more of my life.....recovery has helped me move forward in a better life....I have more fun now....i treat me better.....i set boundaries and stand to them.....i do everything on a daily basis to improve the quality of my life
my posts reflect one who is focused on the solution/ what can I do NOW to take care of me NOW so MAYBE my 2morrows are brighter....
my girl hood friend whom i went to school with is in program....we work together..shoulder to shoulder...heart to heart to butress each other....supporting, loving, validating, caring, uplifting each other....sometimes i need her hugs....other times she needs mine....the bottom line is that we share and care with and for each other....i do a lot of research on the net, stuff i can do, holistically to help me and share with others in my situation.....i dont' sit and suffer and do nothing, i will never ever belly up to this friggin condition, I will do what i can for me whatever it takes to have serenity, safety, peace and love in my life......
I survived this b/c i am a fighter...I am not gonna let the evil win
thank you for letting me share
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Neshema, you are some woman, honestly, your strength is amazing to me, thanks for that share, I learned a lot from that about acceptance and action. I would give you a hug right now if you were here. Good for you.x
Nemesha that was amazing. It took me four years and I was able to come off the medication after two years working through the anxiety workbook. It took at least three sessions a week in the beginning and I was down to one a month. You are correct coffee is awful for PTSD so i completely stopped drinking all caffeine. I work out three times a week, take my son to little league, work a full time job, own my house and meditate. I eat healthy and maintain my weight and I am still working at the stopping smoking which I have quit on and off over the last few years. The last piece I had to work through was the abuse which triggers PTSD symptoms. That is a far cry from the girl that was having panic attacks every seven minutes when I was pregnant. I am proud of what I have worked through. I also just started working through the abuse in February so I think I did pretty good considering it is June. You are right it is what it is and my abuser is no longer welcome in my world.
I believe you truth. Just keep striving and be as happy as you can. Sounds like you are dynamic and capable. This wasn't directed at you but I loved hearing about all the other areas of your life going so well.
you know once upon a time i was not the dolphin who loves to swim, dive and troll the bottom and see all there is to see..........
once upon a time i loathed water b/c of oldest brother trying to drown me...I was at a place called "farm pond" , the whole crazy, sick, toxic family... and i was about 7 years old, maybe 8 and the oldest brother who is like his father convinced me to "come on, i'll teach you how to swim" the parents were there, watching, I know, and so there I go out with this would be killer and i am over my head and the s.o.b. grabs my by the sides of my head, my thick blonde hair is now my enemy b/c he has his hands full of it and he shoves my head under the water....i see his waist as he holds me under water.......i am not able to get away, i am thinking "omg, I am gonna die this time" i did the only thing i could....I grabbed his testicles and I squeezed as hard as i could and of course he let me go and i swam, swam for my life....but i got away
on the ride home noone said anything...i vowed to NEVER be near a window, or in any dangerous situation around these crazy assed people again....i became a chronic runaway....at age 12, i found a family who adored me....they took me in...
the 2 older girls were sorta friends w/ my older broom stick riding sister....the whole family loved and embraced me....between them and my sweet aunt harriett and this lady named "Marjie" whom i baby sat for, I had some peace in my life...some love...some validation that I was human and i did deserve love....
with them i was not the scapegoat...the one whose abuse validated this family's dysfunction being "ok" and that it was "ok" to abuse a child b/c that child was helpless to fight back, so she "must have allowed it--permitted it" like i really had a choice.....
it would be years b4 i would go into the water with someone....no worries being alone, but with someone, anyone was a problem...it took a long time for me to be comfortable, feel safe enough to swim with a friend or boy friend or whatever.....i told people what he did and folks were really angry and my aunt harriet, god rest her soul, and this other family told him if they ever saw evidence of his hurting me again, he would be sorry...too bad they didn't have a clue as to the evil that spawned this smaller version of a gargoyle......
I can now swim with others..no worries, but i probably would fight if someone were to grab me under the water and hold me, even tho it is only play.....
i am proud of me, i became an accomplished swimmer, junior life guard, even, and i can swim far and strong...do any stroke and do it beautifully, dive down to about 15 feet b4 i start getting claustrophobic and have to surface.....
but the fact is I CAN SWIM and I ENJOY IT.....
my public pool is closed for a while due to repairs....so its in doors at the club, our out doors in only 3-1/2 feet at the deep end at the club kids pool which opened first sat. in may.......i think i'll stick to indoors, LOL....all those kids peeing in the pool, somehow takes the charm out of that pool....
dunno why i remembered this, but i did...i think the memory came to fore b/c today i got on line and found out my public pool won't be open till later...so tomorrow it will be indoor swimming.......not complaining....i am grateful that i have this club pool to go to......
thanks for letting me share....
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Well Thank you.....the next thing I think I might take on is getting the laws changed in Canada so i can get rid of a 260 pound dead weight. No wonder Theoran Fluery was trying to get Adam's law in Canada. Just sayin
In my mind and perception the term "legitimately victimized" does not exist. In my experiences I have been very victimized. In my program victimization only occurs when I choose to accept and participate in it...which I don't. I neither accept it or perpetrate it and I fight against it. Mahalo all for the feed back. Interesting topic. (((((hugs)))))
In my mind and perception the term "legitimately victimized" does not exist. In my experiences I have been very victimized. In my program victimization only occurs when I choose to accept and participate in it...which I don't. I neither accept it or perpetrate it and I fight against it. Mahalo all for the feed back. Interesting topic. (((((hugs)))))
agree....and agree to I can NOT choose any further victimization and through program I have put a stop to my victimization with strong boundaries of which i knew nothing, b4 coming in here.....i do not accept, or participate in being victim any more......i set boundary or remove me from the attacker......also I refuse to perpetrate and I, too, Jerry, do everything I can to fight against it.......i SO relate to your post........HUGS
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Thank you Jerry and Neshema for clarifying how you become strong after trauma. Valuable ESH even though you both had to go though pain to get that wisdom.
