Apologies from the AH - Al-Anon Family Group

ilovedogs · ~*Service Worker*~

Apologies from the AH

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

ILD, nothing is wrong, you are awaiting ACTION instead of words! This makes perfect sense to me! He can say all the words he wants, but if the actions speak differently, you are listening to those now, so the words really mean nothing.

Growth is hard, but you are making great progress.

Kenny

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

The heart/soul always knows the truth when there is truth....trust that your heart/soul did not feel/know truth.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm with Kenny on this, too, ILD. I, too, trust actions and not words that go nowhere. To me, when somebody is just rearranging the furniture in their minds and not taking the trash out, that is their choice and its none of my business. What is my business is what actions am I ready to take that will lead to more growth by action and not words? In my own life, I have put mental roadblocks to change, rearranged the furniture around the same situation and failed to take the trash out at times. Fortunately, the tools of the program keep me moving towards increasing freedom and enjoyment of my life. I can't change other people and I can change me and my own circumstances one day at a time.

Your share touched me, ILD. I can relate so much of what you said to my own experience of living with my x. I no longer have an emotional response to any of those memories but I do remember those times. The apologies got to be just one more hook that I recognized one day as I stood on the steps of our cape cod after putting both my children to bed. Once again, an apology for what he had no intention of changing and in that moment, I changed. I told him that apologies weren't good enough for me anymore. They were just words and he would repeat his behaviors.
My self talk was: I'm done with all this and I'm done with you. The action I took came several months later but my recognizing the lies for what they were and the way they could hook me into staying were the awareness and the acceptance I needed for me.

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

Yeah, I can realte. While I was still living with my exAH, he was sober the last 30 days I was there after a bad scenario played out, so he was behaving and I could feel it was coming back and blaming myself that when he started to drink again of course it was my fault. I could not have walked on more eggshells, well he would talk and talk and all I heard was blah, blah, blah. I needed action and after 15 years, well I got blah, blah, blah and I couldn't do it another day. So I left and yes his Mother blamed me, because he went right back to drinking and well I know it started before I got there and continued after I left there, but I was not going to blah, blah, blah her about all that. Life is hard, the emotions are rough, but you are growing and learning about yourself a lot through al-anon. Keep your head up! Sending you much love and support!

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Yes, yes, and yes .. so grateful that these boards taught me to listen with my eyes. No action, no follow through, what is the point?

You are doing completely fine. After years of the abuse what my stbax doesn't get is that it's not enough to say I'm sorry for (fill in the blank) .. it's just say what you mean and mean what you say and best of all FOLLOW THROUGH .. I don't care much for words anymore .. they are just that ... words.

Hugs S :)

ilovedogs · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you all for the support. I truly felt heartless when I watched him walk off to bed dejected last night. He did go to 1 AA meeting earlier in the week and he is working with a new therapist, going every other week. I think he wants to try, the question remains of whether he actually WILL try and if he is truly willing to change. Of course, even if he does put forth 'actions of change', will that even be enough to save our marriage? There's a strong possibility that it won't. Only God knows the true outcome here and I hit my knees last night asking Him to show me the way.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

You are not heartless. I agree with the others...addicts are intuitive and manipulative, as the addiction wants to survive NO MATTER WHAT. The only way for him to get real is to work a program of recovery and there are no negotiations. When I got silent and detached (and I felt heartless, too) from my husbands bs, I was coming out of from under the addiction's spells. I did not know it at the time, but I can see it now. You will be able to see this at a later time, until then, trust what we see for you. You are doing great, don't second guess yourself.

-- Edited by PP on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 11:31:25 AM

Kerrymom · Senior Member

Thank you for posting this, this has also been my experience with the apologies and also felt heartless after. Hugs!

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

Last week my sober (and going to AA) hubby apologized for snapping at me the day before. I felt nothing except "stop bothering me and interrupting what I am doing." I said to him "no problem", but didn't say that I didn't even realize it at the time that he snapped because I have stopped taking anything personally.

I have often wondered what I would feel if he would ever say he was sorry for all the harm he did to our marriage and our relationship. I have thought that I don't want to go through the discomfort of listening to his 5th or 10th step. Good thing he has friends to do that for him. I really am just not interested anymore. That was certainly NOT true for the first few years of his sobriety. I wanted to be part of his journey and he pushed me away. Now I don't care.

I want to be happy. That means I have learned to find alternate ways to get my "warm fuzzy feelings". I played with Kindergarteners this morning. That is love.

Don't worry about your feelings. You are normal in a relationship with an alcoholic.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

"I don't know what went wrong but the feelings gone and I just can't get it back." Neil Diamond

For me once he or she has crossed a line with me, my heart shuts its door and says NO more. I almost have no control over that. My head and heart protect me. My Mother told me too, that at some point, if it goes too long, you will be done. just done.

You are matured so much in Al Anon. You know the truths, why bother speaking? you know the a does not get it.

hugs honey, debilyn

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I love dogs, I understand that anger and resentment towards the A. Before Alanon I had this need to be heard to have all the hurts recognised and admitted and apologies made. I never got them and this added to the anger and resentment and kept me in it, kept each and every hurt alive to keep hurting me. Your husband is an A, he behaves as such and is unlikely to behave in any other way unless he gets recovery. He cant give you what he has not got.

I admire women who stay and who know how to work on themselves and keep a grip of their serenity. I don't think I would have had the strength. I honestly don't think my recovery could have progressed if I was still living with my ex. Its probably even more important for partners who decide to stay to grip onto Alanon for dear life, build up the armour.

I learned that the best we can offer the A's in our life is courtesy and kindness, I think that's about it. Just being able to treat the A's in my life with a pleasant manner, an occasional smile, a cup of tea or some food and that is it, everything else is useless, this has made me feel so much better. No advice, guidance, opinions, judgement, casting up, reminding of 'you did this or that.' Its useless but more than that it is damaging for both people. I learned that A's have so much guilt and self loathing that keeps them drinking. I can choose not to add to that. Unacceptable behaviour works both ways, Im trying really hard not to behave in an unacceptable way because its me that gets hurt. Its took me 2 years to get to the point of forgiveness and compassion but my life is so much better because of it and it cant be too bad for others in my life too.

I do still feel the anger and resentment, it rises up in waves from time to time. It passes. I suggest you burn the journals, they may be keeping it all alive for you and stopping you from letting go, they are the opposite of letting go and think about how you would feel if someone kept a log of the your behaviour. I know I wouldnt like that one bit. Im hard enough on myself at times without someone else judging me.

Its so difficult to live with this and I know how you feel, please take what you like and leave the rest.x

-- Edited by el-cee on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 04:52:20 PM

-- Edited by el-cee on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 04:57:20 PM

ilovedogs · ~*Service Worker*~

El Cee, actually I did get rid of those old journals after we had counseling last year. My new journals are mostly recovery based or notes I've taken on emotional recovery and spirituality. I do have an online private locked journal that I keep when I want to vent, but those are vents for when I'm just feeling overwhelmed and need to just spit it all out. I don't really go back and read it nor do I use it everyday.

Oh, and AH does keep a journal of all my wrongs and how awful I am and how my recovery is hurting him, etc etc. I do know what it feels like but even my old journals were not directly complaints about him: they were about how I FELT living with him and how I was trying to work through the hurt and the pain. If he doesn't like it, that's tough. He knew I was suffering for years, yet he chose to not bother to change for the family. So, my choice was that I needed to journal to have a place to talk to God and to express my fears and depressing crap.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

You husband has a long history of manipulation and insincerity, even when he's trying. Furthermore, since he has been in AA now at least enough to see the steps, he should know you don't leap to step 8 and 9 (amends)without doing 1 through 7. He always cuts corners and tries to get around doing work and really changing. That is a pattern lasting for years. I might feel a bit more if I heard he went to 7 meetings last week, has a sponsor he is calling, and is really showing willingness and action rather than flapping his lips. Based on what you've shared prior, I observe he always seems to think he can talk or verbally manipulate his way out of things. My attitude would have been similar to yours.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I think journals are good things but I know I couldn't stand going over details of the past, that is way too painful. Im not saying looking back occasionally is of no value, I think it has value when its about looking at my own shortcomings and looking to forgive myself and others.

I'm not sure an alcoholic can choose to change for the family, mine never and most don't ever. I used to think about him choosing the drink over the family but if its a compulsion and addiction then its not about anyone else really. My ex only recently chose recovery and its been for himself and because of that I think he stands a chance.

The opening or closing, I cant remember which, at meetings suggest that a change in attitude can make a difference to the whole family, I've found that my life and my families life has been dramatically improved through my changed attitude. Forgiveness and compassion are powerful tools, hard to come by but well worth the effort. It sounds patronizing but letting go of the hurt, pain and loss was so beneficial to me and then my kids. I have a lot of respect for you and your decision to stay, it must be much harder to work your program when its challenged often. I was challenged by my son and I had to set boundaries and he kicked every single one down so I had to accept I cant live with him. Its hard but for me the answers are in the good but hard stuff.x

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

The pain, I learned, is in me as is the solution to releasing it. If somebody hits me in the arm, the pain was inflicted by them once. If I move away from them, protect myself from further punches and tend to the physical hurt, it's all over. But, if I hang onto what happened days, weeks, months and years after it happened, I am hurting myself and I'm gaining something from that pain no matter how much I say I hate the pain. I think its good that you are writing journals about today and not hanging on to the pain of the past.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 08:44:12 PM

sunshine23 · Veteran Member

This was my relationship with my AH for a long time. Him wanting things to be normal after each incident. Holding my hands and complaining that I do not hold his hand back. Him giving me a kiss and complaining I do not react. Asking some weird questions and complaining I do not engage. I was really walking on eggshells. If I reacted as he wanted, he complained about me faking it!!!! Finally, all the eggs broke, I moved out.

For the longest time, I felt that I needed to stay for the sake of my children. In a sense, I was really blessed. I could keep the issues out of the kids lives because my AH travelled alot a few years ago. These two years, I had enough of covering for him and the kids were much older, I slowly tell them about the issues. He was very angry with me, saying that I poisoned the kids against him without even acknowledging that they can feel, see, hear and smell. The irony is I moved also because of the kids. They were under continuous stress as to how they should react to AH. Should they go to him once he calls for them? Should they say "I love you" even though they are really just plain confuse? Should they hop into his car when he wants to drive them out? I came to realization that this dysfunctional family is more harmful to ALL of us.

After moving out, I have more time with the kids and myself instead of worrying about who I will see at night? (Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde) Always hoping for Dr. Jekyll but knowing that with 90% certainty, My Hyde will come to dinner even though he is not drunk. Now I go home to focus on myself and the kids. He is more calm now too. No more strings of angry texts. No one to pick a fight for his own struggle. I can also pray and plead for him in a more peaceful way.

I am not sure what will happen. Maybe we will end up not being together. At least I know that leaving now is better than later because the way things were, the rage, may drive anyone insane. Now we can focus on what to do for the kids.

ilovedogs · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks everyone. It's funny. I just came home from a meeting and he left his new book out right on the counter where I could see the title, despite him covering his books like we did back in high school. It's called, "How to Improve your Marriage Without Talking about it". As much as I see this as a positive and him actually trying, I don't think a book on communication is going to fix things. I wonder when his therapist is going to make that clear to him? She keeps giving him all these books to read, and he is reading them, which is a step better than he's done in the past, but none of the books are about addiction or him dealing with his own issues. The only one that came close was called, "the Happiness Trap".

Anyhoo, I am so not interested in working on us right now, not until he's got a LOT of sobriety under his belt. I guess I wonder underneath it all, if these book he's working through will actually help him find sobriety, real sobriety? I guess you never know!

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

I just read that book, and it changed my relationship for the better, almost as much as Alanon has. I don't know if it will change his though, I was very open to change at the point I picked it up, and it sounds like he might be more interested in just showing you he's trying to do something about it.

I won't spoil it here, perhaps you just don't want to know what it is about, I understand what you are saying. First things first. I probably wouldn't have done much with that book if I wasn't in recovery, and if my AW wasn't already heavy into her recovery as well. My AW didn't really recover until she just surrendered to her inpatient program and AA. She said "what do I need to do? I will do it". Even the things that seemed stupid, she did and never complained about them, just did them, and most if not all of them ended up doing her good.

Do feel free to PM me if you are interested in hearing more about it.

Kenny

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

This thing we do, this recovery thing is about progress...never perfection and I stopped using that as filter with my alcoholic/addict and then others a long time ago. Of course I also stopped using that on me too. I do the best I can with what I have at the time I think I must and after inventory when that is necessary I can change my responses and then LET IT GO. The other night I believe my spouse had a "manic" out break or maybe a "bi-polar" event. Her response to an obvious statement which was supported by her own awareness just before I said it and while apparent proof was present was absolutely not rational for the moment. Her response was sarcastic and out of context with what we were doing and sharing. I responded with agitation in defense (best I could do with what I had at the time). She went into silent treatment and retreated to her bed. Since she rarely apologizes without maintaining defense and barrier I am left to work out getting to and remaining on balance for myself by myself. The best I have is done with time taking as my defenses and boundaries can get formidable. I must also allow my spouse and others to work thru their progress the same way...the best they can with what they got after all I learned in Al-Anon that my alcoholic/addict and I could not ever stand in the very same place at the very same time for the very same purpose. Sharing how we do it often times helps when we take that opportunity and that's progress for me which hasn't happened yet here and will sometime soon. Bi-polar or manic breaks are mental/emotional events which are not healthy. (((((hugs))))) smile

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I think thats the key kenny for all of us, an open mind, a willingness to let new thought processes in, even if they seem strange or difficult. I came to a point where my old way of thinking was hurting me and those around me.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't think that you are at all heartless ILD (and btw I loved reading To Kill a Mocking Bird).

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