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I'm new here. Really glad to have found this forum. I need a bit of sanity at the moment. I know there's no magic bullet and no instant answer to my question, but I'm hoping you can offer some advice. How did you have The Talk? (the one about your A's drinking and how it impacted you) and how long do you think it takes for sobriety to bed in to a person's mindset?
I realised this weekend that my partner isn't merely a problem drinker... he's an alcoholic. I feel like a fog has been lifted from before my eyes. We've been together for three years, and I love him very much. He isn't terrible to me. He's no angel, but he isn't a monster, either. He can be sarcastic and nastily critical, but he most often is funny and sweet. He just drinks until he is insensible, until he has no money left, until he passes out. He does this a lot. I have tried talking to him about his drinking, but he becomes highly defensive and angry with me when I do. I've tried being blunt. I've tried being soft. I've tried empathy. I've tried anger. Nothing is getting through to him. Today was a bit heavier than usual, drinking wise, but not completely abnormal. He had his first tin of lager at 8:30... by 9:45, he'd had three or four tins. I found him passed out on the couch by 2PM. By fiveish, he was awake and by seven he had been off to walk our dog - and stopped by a corner shop to get some more booze, to keep on drinking.
I am a full-time student and have a part-time catering business I'm trying to get off the ground. I've been able to rely on him for help and inspiration in the past. When he isn't drinking, and even when he has only been drinking a bit, he really can be an amazing partner. The problem is that lately, he is always drinking, and that his drinking often passes a point at which he becomes unreliable. We break plans with friends or just the two of us because he is too drunk to safely go out. He will approach me for sex, and I'll smell the booze on him and get instantly turned off.
I don't want to break up with him. I love the guy he is without the booze. He doesn't think he has a drinking problem, though. I keep wondering if I'm crazy for not splitting with him until he stops drinking. I'm convinced on some level that he never will, hoping with all my might that I'm wrong and he will stop getting so drunk. I'm trying to process my jumbled up emotions about loving someone so much, who has so much to give, but who seems intent on making himself disappear into different degrees of oblivion.
To further complicate things: I'm finishing one course in a month or so, and will be starting a further degree in the autumn. I'll need to move to do this new degree. It's going to be demanding and challenging. I am thinking about telling him that I don't want to break up with him, but that he can't follow me to this new city unless he stops drinking. The move would be in July/August. I'm wondering, though, if it's wise to issue an ultimatum of that sort... and if he did stop drinking, if three-four months of sobriety is enough time for it to stick.
Any advice for me? Many thanks in advance for your thoughts.
-- Edited by yankshirerose on Sunday 27th of April 2014 08:54:36 PM
Hi. What you are describing is definitely the disease in action. What I've learned is that there is nothing I can do or not do that will influence my A's drinking or not drinking - getting into a program or not getting into a program. The disease will continue to tell him he doesn't have a problem and after awhile that the problem is you and the world. If you choose to move with or without him, the disease will continue to progress in him if he doesn't see his need for help and that could take years. This isn't a disease for which there is a cure and like us - the alcoholic cannot control the compulsion to drink or control it. Everyone is powerless over it. Even if he stops drinking, he still has the disease which will require a lifetime of active program recovery work.
What we are not powerless over is our choices and wanting what we want for our lives. My experience has been that one of the best choices I have made is to enter the rooms of Al-Anon to get help for myself. Not only is the alcoholic hurt by this disease, so are we. Meetings, sponsorship, conference approved literature, working the steps all helped me learn how to focus on myself again and what I wanted for my life whether or not my loved ones kept using.
My suggestion is to attend 6 meetings in your area before you decide if Al-Anon is for you and if you decide that it is, to find a sponsor there, obtain the literature, work the steps and continue meetings.
And thank you for the advice. There are Al-Anon groups in my current area, but they are on nights I can't currently attend (work or class time conflicts). I'm graduating this June, so I'll be able to attend then. In the meantime, I'm hoping to keep sane by whatever means I can, on or offline. I'm guessing that I probably won't be able to find a sponsor until I'm settled in to the new city?
I completely agree, Grateful2B - even if I had all the time in the world, I would not want to spend it policing him. I see what you mean about him needing to sort himself and it not being my place to sort him. To put it in a new agey way, he has to follow his own karma, and I can only hope that path leads him to sobriety. It's not for me to control him, it's for him to control him. My brain knows all this. My heart is the one that is being stretched like a pretzel, and making me challenge and second guess myself in my next steps with him!
It feels really good to be able to talk about this stuff this openly. My friends don't have any real experience of alcoholism, and though they know something is off, my partner's drinking is the elephant in the room with us. Thank you again for listening!
Aloha Rose and yes there is a ton of information out there for those who need to know...The AMA and the Lancet give good institutional information from research and practice. The Al-Anon Family Groups of course are loaded with pertinent information and daily readers. There is absolutely no lack of information because this disease which is thousands of years old has lodged itself in every country and corner of this planet. You because of it are not alone. Do your best getting into the rooms of the family groups as early as you can...massage time, alter events; for me it was that important. The disease of alcoholism is a fatal one and it affects everyone it comes into contact with; drinker or non. An alcoholic has three choices because of the progressive nature of the disease, sobriety, insanity and or death. It is a fatal disease. Keep coming back here also...read, listen, learn, practice. We do have online meetings...see how you can attend. (((((hugs)))))
Welcome Yankshirerose,
You've had some great responses here and it is a joy to see you reaching out with such awareness.
I love the sound of your catering business and the course that you are planning to attend. It sounds exciting, energising and full of potential.
That book Getting Them Sober helped me a lot and I think that it will help you as well.
I've had lots of small moments of clarity over the years that I've been living with my husband's alcoholism and one of the best was when I realised that I needed to value my own self esteem and do what felt right for me based on just that. It did not help either of us when I tried to stop my husband drinking, but it did help us both when I learnt to accept what behaviour I could tolerate and what behaviour I found undermining (undermining my self esteem or my opinion of my husband).
Courage to change is a good book also. Sorry to hear about your predicament Yankshirerose. I wish there was something I could tell you that would "work" to get what you want out of him, but alcoholism doesn't work that way. It usually needs to get worse until the person surrenders. People usually need to lose relationships, jobs...legal penalties. This is not always the case, but often it is. It is a sad disease.
Pinkchip is right. I have done everything under the sun to help my son but it just got worse. He has lost everything now including his freedom. I can only pray a few years in prison will finally help him.
I will love him and be kind but I will not enable him in any way again so he can continue this downward path he took. I will stay on my side and let him experience this journey all by himself good or bad.
I will pray that you can let him go so he can see what alcoholism is really like. What he will face if he doesn't seek help on his own. His choices his consequences.
((( hugs )))
__________________
Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
Probably everyone on this board has had The Talk. And then they had another Talk. And then a few more. And once we have banged our heads up against the wall for long enough, we figure out that our addicts' diseases are really trying to manipulate us. In fact, many times our addicts' diseases love The Talk. It gives them a chance to show us how they can't really handle life, and there is a good reason they should be drinking, many times it is because of us, but any good excuse can be latched onto.
This was certainly true for me. Talk, talk talk. My AW is a much better talked than I am, so she always won these talks, whether by the sheer force of her argument, or whether it just devolved into yelling and arguing.
That was when I found Step 1. That we are powerless over alcohol. In fact, I discovered it before I discovered it, really. I just gave up talking. But that was awful too.
Then I discovered that there were a lot of people with the same problem, and they get together every week for support. And publish great literature, and have experience to share. That was when I really found step 1, and found out that lots of other people ehad done step 1.
Then I found out that Al Anon, isn't really about our alcoholic. Once we have been there a little while and been able to vent, we discover lots of ways to work on ourselves, and help us deal with life, whether with or without an alcoholic in our lives.
I hope you can keep coming back here, checking out the message boards, and going to online meetings. Also, great that you can get to F2F meetings soon!
I was told the disease is progressive. It doesn't get better just worst. I can attest to this statement.
I had hopes and dreams... gone.
I love my AH but if I knew he was am A I would run the other way as fast as I can.
This disease is horrible and it has taken do much from me.
My guy was great at the beginning. I think they all are.. but the drinking gets worst.
You can not do anything to make them stop. Yes they do not love you over their alcohol. They will stop when they hit bottom.
You seem to know what you want. Make sure you live your dreams. His only adgenda is drinking.. your adgenda needs to be living your dreams.
Life is too short to live the dreams of a drug addict..
I just got back from alnon meeting. The sadness in the group was too much..
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I have hope that my next minute will be better and to learn from my last minute.
Your post just takes me right back to when my life was on hold for years waiting for my ex to sober up. Eventually I got to the point of the ultimatum and I meant it and so he sobered up, for 6 years but he still had the isms, the underlying problems that drove his alcoholism. In many ways it was worse than when he drank. I also had isms, issues within me that needed to be addressed. His isms drove him to drink, my isms drove me to him, we were both addicted. I suggest you go to alanon as soon as you can. Get some clarity before making any decisions. If neither of you get help this situation is bound to get worse, you will both progress.
Wow, thanks everyone. What a terrific group of people you are, to take the time to give such considered and sincere replies... thank you!
I talked to him yesterday morning. He doesn't feel he's an alcoholic. I was pretty proud of how calm I stayed in the face of some of his rationalisations and excuses. He came out with some truly ridiculous stuff. One of his sillier attempts to explain his drinking was to try and claim some sort of cross-cultural misunderstanding was going on. I'm American, living in the UK and Eire for ten years now. He's Irish. So it was just my misunderstanding of normal drinking taken a bit too far, you see, not that he's an alcoholic. I couldn't keep a straight face at that point, as I couldn't believe he would drag out such a stupid excuse when I've lived here for more than long enough to have a very good idea of what's considered to be normal alcohol consumption. My English and Irish friends think he drinks far too much. When I told him that as well, he tried to pick a fight about me talking about him behind his back. And on... and on... and on. I don't even think he meant half the things he was coming out with. He was just flailing about for some way to make the conversation stop.
Result is that he agreed to go to AA, soon, just to see what it was all about. He left it to me to find the meeting, which isn't inspiring confidence about how seriously he's taking any of this. I dug a bit deeper and found that the NHS has a partnership with different local authorities to provide a Community Alcohol Service (CAS). He can get medical/clinical assessment with them about the level of damage he's done to himself, get medical support with withdrawal, but also can get support through different charities and social services groups. I can get support through them as well. I've made contact with them and I've already been assigned a key worker. They have drop-in coffee mornings and support groups as well. I want to also attend Al-Anon, but this is a good option, too.
When he came home from work yesterday, I had a series of options for him to choose from. He can be seen either Thursday or Friday at the CAS for assessment and referral... it's all drop-in, so we can go when/if he likes. There's an open AA meeting this coming Friday and Monday. He can choose which meeting we attend.
I also want us to go to couples counselling. I have left it to him to arrange this. I need to know he is serious about trying to repair the damage and move forward.
I'm carefully watching his engagement with these different options. If he doesn't engage with the support on offer, and he doesn't make real progress, I am moving without him.
He hasn't had a drink since yesterday morning. 36 hrs without a drink may not sound like a lot, but for him, it is. Fingers, toes, and everything else crossed that this is a turning point.
-- Edited by yankshirerose on Tuesday 29th of April 2014 01:37:12 PM
-- Edited by yankshirerose on Tuesday 29th of April 2014 01:38:51 PM
I used to do everything for my son to get the help he needs. He didn't have to do anything but show up. But that didn't work. I have learn to let go completely and when my son is ready he would take the necessary actions needed not me. I gave my son the dignity to make his own choices good or bad. I let go and let him experience the true consequences of those choices. My adult child is learning one day at a time.
Take care and keep coming back because your not alone.
__________________
Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
Hi... I am jus tone of the many people you might see as you come into the door... 