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I am desperate for help. I have no where to turn. Went on Google and found this page. If anything, it might help that I just write something down and hopefully someone will have words of wisdom.
My husband is an alcoholic. For the first 20 years of our marriage I was in deep, deep denial but the kids knew something was wrong. When I found the bottle and a receipt I had it. From there we went to counseling and he went to AA. There have been many relapses but he recovered. He has been sober for three years. The kids were never told. That was our big secret- and his wish. He didn't think the kids knew but they did. It was always unspoken.
The oldest two have anxiety but not terrible. They are coping. The youngest, a 15 year old, is now self harming. Last week we had to put her in a day center. The Sunday before I told him he had to tell her that he was an alcoholic saying she needed to know what she was up against. He refused. I told him that he didn't I would. He was furious. But I stood my ground. I had just recently read the book It Won't Happen To Me by Claudia Black and was floored at the aftereffects on the children.
I took her out for ice cream and told her that dad is an alcoholic. I believe I handled it extremely well and I was compassionate towards her father. She knew - she said she always knew and that all three of my children would talk about it.
Well, now he isn't speaking to me. He says I was the only person he could trust and tell something to and now I broke that trust. Nothing I say gets through to him. I said he expects me to forgive him for all his lying yet he won't forgive me for telling the truth. He goes back to I was the only one he trusted. He doesn't believe the kids know or that it was important. It doesn't matter that I talked to a counselor or read the book. That's nothing to him.
He knows I told a few friends and he has added that up in a column of he can't trust me.
Guess we are on our way to a separation. Don't know how to tell the kids.
Something I have learned about alcoholism at least in my house it thrives in secrecy. Plus .. kids are way way way smarter and know far more than most people give them credit for. I think it's interesting that your daughter also suffers from anxiety because mine has as well and she's right about the same age. She's been in therapy now for about 7 or 8 months and is thriving. Her therapist calls her .. her rock star :) She's got some great coping skills and handles her dad and what he throws at her. Especially the verbal vomit (that's a big word for me lately .. LOL). There is some connection there I don't doubt that anxiety levels are directly affected by that whole not feeling safe. Personally, I'm a we need to put this on the table and deal with it .. I don't know if that is right or not I know it horrified my stbax. I think that is a big part of keeping everything secret and it completely smacks of not needing to accept responsibility for their part. That's me taking someone else's inventory .. that's my observation nothing more. For my children and their well being .. we talk about alcoholism and the effects of it.
For my own situation my kids have thrived with their active dad out of the house. The anxiety level is totally down and they are much happier as a whole.
It's so interesting to me that he is acting as if your transgression in his mind is so much worse than what he has put the family through. I understand his fear of not wanting the kids to not know or think less of him .. for me the reality is .. they need to know what they are dealing with for two reasons .. if he's drunk I don't want them in a moving car with him. Second they need coping skills for the damage that has been done and they continue to have to deal with situations that they shouldn't have to deal with. Again my daughters anxiety and how she's been able to cope with it. She lives her life regardless of what he does or doesn't do. My son takes his cues from his sister. She's 14 and he's 9.
This is probably not alanon in how I'm approaching this and others will have better words than I do .. I don't know a right or wrong answer for your situation .. the question really is do you have peace with what you did in telling your daughter? (I think you should .. and I know I did with my own children) She's already expressed she knew and maybe he needs a reality check that whatever is going on with him it's not a secret which would be better served in a place of safety with a therapist. I doubt that my stbax would have the nerve to face either of his children based upon what has transpired because until he finds real recovery he's not going to face his part and that's for him to decide what that is or isn't.
Hugs to you my friend .. it really gets better keep coming back and I truly hope you will find an alanon meeting in your area.
S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I am glad that you found Miracles in Progress and had the courage and honesty to share from your heart. Keeping secrets, living in denial and pretend are the destructive tools we learn to use by living in the dreadful disease of alcoholism. You did the right thing for your child and the action that you took was essential to her well being and mental health .
Breaking the terrible isolation caused by living in the insanity of alcoholism is crucial to our recovery and the recovery of the family This is how we heal, learn and grow. We who live with the problem of alcoholism understand as few others can. . Alcoholism is a progressive fatal disease over which we are powerless. In our attempt to control it, deal with it or understand it we become irritable and unreasonable, and make unworkable promises without even knowing it Putting the focus on the insanity of alcoholism and trying to fix it was all I knew. . It was not until I found Al-Anon determined to learn a new and better way that I was able to grow and thrive. Face to Face meetings are held in most communities and the hot line number is in the white pages. We have the option of our online meetings that are held here each day. Keep coming back
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Good morning. Welcome. Choosing your child's well-being over your husband's shame and secrecy was a loving choice in my perspective. I, too, think that Al-Anon for you and Alateen for the young people in your life will be a big help to you and to the children. Keep coming back here, too.
I type this with tears running down my face in gratitude for all your kind words. You will never know how much they mean to me. Thank you. I just don't know how to take it from here. I'm always the strong one but now I feel weakened with my daughter's problems. It continues and continues even though he is "sober."
You did the right thing...his behavior tells me he is still steeped in shame. It also tells me that, although he may be sober, ongoing recovery is questionable. Without a recovery program for you, even though you take the right actions, your head will spin with his manipulations. He is manipulating you. The tools of al anon will give you a stronger footing so you won't wobble as much. It is wonderful you found this forum and voices of sanity.
I agree with you Paula. That hit me hard this morning as he wasn't listening to me. He is trying to manipulate me, you are right. And the kids. But my poor daughter! Can't we focus on her instead of him? It's always about him and I told him that. I feel as if I created this by letting him manipulate me. If you knew me in my professional life you would NEVER believe this would happen to me or anyone would be able to take advantage of me. I don't know how I let it get so far.
I went to one Al anon meeting the first weekend I found out 10 years ago. I don't think I was ready then but I think I'm going to find one tonight.
Something I do want to say I think as parents we tend to take on our children's issues as our own (at least I do) the reality is these are their lessons to learn and to learn to cope with so please be gentle with yourself. Forgive yourself for whatever it is you think you should have done earlier or whatever the issue is. I make the best decisions I can with the information that I have at the time. I'm a little hard headed .. lol .. just a little .. so I tend to be slower in terms of getting it "right" and again that's right for ME. My daughters anxiety, .. it sucks .. the only thing I can do for her is help her get the tools and life skills, then it's up to her to use the tools that have been provided. I carry enough guilt, shame over what I could have, should have and so on .. she's close to being an adult and I know when she flies .. she's going to soar .. I have complete faith in her ability and decision making.
You have different issues than your daughters .. I just encourage you not to get tangled up in those and allow her to work through them without taking on more than is necessary. This is about her and not you, if you make her issues about you then it's counter productive for you both (not advice again .. just observation with what I have learned in the past few months). I'm coming from this with what my therapist has shared with me as I deal with my own children. I also grew up with my mom making it about her and that is frustrating as a kid saying this about ME .. when did my pain become yours? It's just not and I remind myself of that when my daughter shares with me.
Anyway so glad you are here, .. hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I did want to add that your husband's disease makes him and everybody else sick - not bad. There is hope in the program for you and for your children. His choice to work a program for himself is up to him. But, you get to choose to work a program for you whether or not he decides to do it, too. Alcoholism isn't a disease anybody asks for nor is the damage it does. We can't change the progressive nature of the disease, but we can learn how to take better care of ourselves in the program with the help of others who have also made a break from the secretive nature and manipulations of this cunning, baffling and powerful disease. Good for you in refusing to give in to the disease's powerful pull to keep the truth to yourself.
Thank you so much! I can see that I have beating myself up over her issues. My oldest told me to stop thatLOL. I'm desperate to lessen her pain and I was hoping to take some away from her. Now I can see I have been doing the same thing that I do for my husbandtake it on instead of letting her take that one and deal with it. Thank you for pointing that out!
I have to be strong - but I feel powerless. I need plans in my life to keep order. I have no plan now.
You might be surprised to learn of the professional lives of many of us. I spent many hours wondering the same thing...I worked with addiction counselors!!! It is a complex, insidious, cunning, manipulative disease and it can strike anyone at anytime. I learned how prideful I was (and still am, at time). You are doing fine and know that your daughter has a HP, too. This is painful for all of you, even your husband. My heart is swollen for all of you. Prayers for your family.
There is a big difference for me in terms of feeling powerless and feeling helpless .. it's the difference between being a victimized (powerlessness .. yes it sucks it is what it is) and helpless (I'm a victim and there is nothing I can do). Welcome to step 1 .. :) Funny how those steps sneak up on us. :) I have made my therapist stop using the word powerlessness unless it's coming from a place of empowerment and then helplessness because that's where I get stuck in victim mentality. He laughs at me however understands there is a big difference in how I view those terms. I do not like helplessness. Powerlessness is actually very freeing that means I only have to accept my part no one else's. I accept that I can't control other people, places or things. That feels good.
Easy does it .. the plan will come when it's meant to in the mean time just breathe and know you are not alone in this journey.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
My Al-Anon also has an Alateen at the same time. My kids (17 and 12) do NOT want to go. I make them go even if they just sit there and listen and know that they are not the only kids in the world that have to deal with this stuff. (okay I get them ice cream afterwards) I call it our night out. Their Dad is in rehab now and it has been a peaceful 40 days so far but he will eventually come home---and we will see what happens from there. He will always be an alcoholic and they need to know (if only for the genetic link---that this disease can invade them as well).
You would tell them if there was a different disease in your family so they can be aware of their future health wouldn't you?
My husband sat the kids down to tell him about his problem---he thought they didn't see it. They knew. My daughter told him to "fix himself" LOL apparently if I couldn't be direct with him....at least I taught her something!
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You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. (Dr. Suess)
That is wonderful that she said that. At least they got the opportunity to hear it from him. I think that is huge. I think that would have helped in my situation. We are asking her to be honest with her feelings and with everyone - he should have been. I realize its the disease that he wants to remain secretive but I can't get over the lack of honesty to his own suffering child. He feels that I am blaming him for her problems. Maybe I am.
I'm also concerned about the genetic link. It, of course, runs in both our families. What a surprise!
My dad drank too while I was a kid growing up. We knew it but it was a secret. Night after night he came home drunk (he was in the navy) and my mom would meet him at the door and start yelling at him. I was a nervous wreck as a child knowing what was going to take place once he pulled into the driveway. After all of us (3 kids) moved out my mom joined my dad with the drinking. I remember taking my mom to see a Dr. years ago and she said please don't tell them I drink. Still the secrets. I think you did the right thing. Your kids knew. Your daughter needs your help. Good luck and please keep us posted on how you are doing. This is a great site.
I'm sorry your going through this but what you did was something you felt you had to do. Your daughter is what's important here. She needs to have a long and happy life and you and your husband as parents needs to insure she does.
Your husband is going to forgive or he's not....what are you going to do? Al-anon might help you to learn some of the tools needed to cope with the disease of Alcoholism. It can ans will destroy a family whether he's drinking or not.
I'm glad you here because you are not alone.....keep coming back
((( hugs )))
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
Hi Writeone and welcome to MIP- you're in the right place! You've received excellent support from the others. You're not alone and I can relate to your post.
Although there were many things that could have served to motivate me, when I discovered my daughter self- harming, it was my motivation to find a better way. My honesty with my daughter opened the communication necessary for her to take steps towards healing. Exposing secrets leads to better health and a better way of living. My AH of nearly 20 years was unhappy with his daughter knowing too- he was ashamed and also was a disruption for his comfort of denial. During one of his rehab family meetings when we were all in the same room, the counselor asked my daughter what is the one thing she would want her Dad to know; she replied that she would welcome him being able to be honest with her. In his case, he is still active and isn't able to be honest with himself... and, in turn, is unable to give her the honesty that she longs for.
Alcoholism affects everyone in contact; without abstinence and proper support through working on inner issues (AA), it progresses and ends in insanity or death. Alanon provides new perspectives and skills to cope and improve our situation.
Keep taking good care of you and your children and keep coming back- this program works!
Oh dear, sounds like some of his isms are alive and kicking, it could be that he needs to go back to AA and work on his own spiritual recovery. Of course you did the right thing for your family, secrets can be part of the disease of alcoholism and I think you showed great courage in letting this out. Its a family disease and your children know whats going on. Your husband is acting like a spoilt child and I would stop mothering him now and let him go in his huff if thats what he chooses.x
I'm so glad you have found us. You may know the recovery saying "You're only as sick as your secrets." You have deflated the power of those secrets by being open about it. And now your daughters know that they no longer have to keep silent about what they knew all along. When I was growing up, my dad had a bad mental illness - he even was hospitalized over it - and yet it was absolutely taboo to talk about it. If my mother had ever talked openly about it to me and showed me how to cope, I would have been embarrassed as heck, but I would have felt indescribably much better. The burden of bearing the secret and pretending I didn't know was terrible.
Your husband sounds as if he is so wrapped up in shame and self-absorption that he can't see this. But you have seen it, and you opened the door.
Alcoholism is so jaw-dropping sometimes - your husband's determination to believe that if you hadn't told your daughters, they never would have known! Alcoholics think their actions are invisible and they live in this world of denial in which their drinking has no bad consequences. Sounds as if he is still determined to be in that world. I wonder if he is in a formal program of recovery like AA? For someone in AA, their sponsor would be the one for them to talk to about this current situation. This must have happened a million times before and sponsors will be able to help them use program tools to deal with it. But I'm wondering if he's in a program. A dry drunk (not in a program) will be carrying on the same old patterns, just without drinking behind them.
Either way, taking care of yourself and your girls is the way to go. Sounds like you have a lot of awareness in this. I hope your meeting goes well - if not try a different one - they are all so different. I did that thing too where my first meetings were disappointing and I waited way too many years to go back. They say to try 6 to find the one that fits. I hope you'll keep coming back here too.
I would echo much of what's been said here. Inventory taking is not good, nor am I the voice of all alcoholics in recovery here on the alanon board (though being an alcoholic...I know their tricks and their BS from having thought that way)...That being said, I seriously question what kind of AA program anyone could be working where at the crux of it is dishonesty, shame, a desire to keep things so secret, and hold one's family hostage to their sickness too. After 5 plus years in AA (and some alanon too), I know that what you are describing are disease traits and not recovery ones on his part. For whatever I feel I "can't trust" another person with, that's why I have a sponsor. Why would he force you into that role? If he can't trust anyone other than you, who did he do his 4th step with? How did he do an 8th and 9th step (making amends) if he can't even admit to crucial people that he's an alcoholic in recovery? I cannot envision any kind of AA he is participating in other than maybe going to meetings and having no sponsor and doing no step work because no one with a halfway decent program (even a quarter way decent) would act that way. To me, the resentments, secrecy, desire to not be honest, accountable.....all that speaks to why there have been so many relapses and it also tells me that maybe he has a reservation to drink again and is using this as an excuse to go out on.
Writeone, you have done well by shedding light on this and seeking help for yourself. In order for you to be there for your daughter and everyone else, you need your own support and recovery. For you to give, you have to take. I admire you for reaching out and accepting this support. Right now it seems like you have a lot more recovery in you than your husband (not that it's a contest). Honesty, open-mindedness, and willingness (HOW) are what makes for good recovery and I see these things in YOU! Just in the way you have received feedback, sought out more, asked questions, I see you as being very primed to take advantage of alanon. You are a whole human being that is so much more than a backbone to sick others. Stay connected and allow yourself to get support as you give it to your kids and as you detach from your husband and let him handle his own shame and ongoing disease.
My husband is in AA - for the past year I would say, he has been going to meetings three or four times a week. But I would agree that he isn't "recovered." As I read the steps I know there are a few he "missed." I'm not sure his sponsor will be helpful. Perhaps he was lying to me - again - but he said that his sponsor said it is up to him in his time to face it. Well, I wasn't working on his timeline, I guess.
I plan to go to a meeting tonight. Boy, it is hard to let go and be powerless. And to have that courage to change what I can - but I don't know what I can change. I am just amazed that he can't forgive me for telling the truth when I forgave him so many times for lying. Sigh.
David, I do have hope now, thanks to all these wonderful posts, and I'm sorry you were that child. I hope that everything is ok in your life today. That would bring me more hope.
Thank you and I agree that he hasn't made it very far in the steps - especially the amends part. But where do I go from here with that knowledge? Can't push him in another direction.
Sounds like you are heading in exactly the right direction - to alanon. Nothing you do will make him more reasonable, rational, or have better recovery. You are about to set yourself more free though. It's not going to be easy, but it will be worth it for you.
Powerlessness in the context of al anon, has strengthened my relationship with God, my HP, allowing me to free fall with faith. The more I free fall with faith, the more I KNOW that when I act with Gods guidance, all is and will be well. This has been one of the many gifts of al Anon. You are doing great.
As others have stated "Being powerless over others does not mean I am helpless or hopeless;"
Alanon has given me back my POWER. The knowledge that I do have power over myself, my actions, my reactions , my choice of recovery and over trusting in my HP . I finally understood that accepting this truth lifted a great burden that was not mine to carry.
As far as your hubby's anonymity is concerned --- you examined your motives on the issue and know that you did so for the health of your child , made amend to him and have done your part.
David, I do have hope now, thanks to all these wonderful posts, and I'm sorry you were that child. I hope that everything is ok in your life today. That would bring me more hope.
Thank P. and thanks for your courteous replies to all of us.
I had some mending to do, but now I have been married 31 years, have kids and grandkids.
As an update, I attended an Al-Anon meeting last night - the people there are wonderful! Didn't say much - cried a lot but I think it was part relief to know I'm not alone and part sadness about the situation. I will, I know, have a hard time with acceptance. But I'm working on gratitude that my daughter is getting the help that she needs.
It is clear to me from what all of you have written that my husband's recovery is not as far long that I had hoped - but guessed deep down. I'll find my own plan and continue to pray that he finds his. And I'll accept that we may not do it together.
Thanks so much to all of you for your graciousness in helping a stranger through one of her darkest days. You pulled me through.
When I went to my first Al-Anon, I thought it wouldn't help me at all....they said to try 6 meetings before I made up my mind and I am glad I stayed.
I now tell my AH that I will always love him, but I may not be able to live with him. He is in rehab now and I am hoping that this time it sticks---but I realize that it may not and I know what my path is if that happens.
It really is amazing when you finally get that clarity in your life and an understanding that this is your new reality. I still get into that panic mode or just plain sad but now I have ways to break out of it.
Wishing you peace. Keep calm and carry on!
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You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. (Dr. Suess)
I went through something similar just recently .. I was confused and unsure whether telling my youngest daughter her dad is in jail and has an addiction was ok .. for the past however long, i have watched my daughter look feel and talk about being sad her dad doesn't love her enough to be here .. i have watched the sad look of disappointment, the look of hope when someone comes to the door later that just 'maybe it's him .. christmas come and go this year wih no word, ec ..pitifiul .. she thinks the world of her dad; loves him .. never wanted much from just to be loved . .. many self esteem issues .. Well my daughter is a little younger but after sharing, praying, meditating .. i ended up telling her on an age level but when asked, i did tell her honey i know you thnk daddy isn't calling because he doesn't love you or want to, but daddy ended up making some bad choices and getting himself into trouble . before i coud think or say anther word, my daughter gasped and said daddys in jail ? i paused and said yeah honey it kinda looks that way .. there was a silence for a minute and in that minute as panicky as i felt on the inside knowing i couldn't retract and that if i'd made the 'wrong deciision it was now too late .. i heard my higher power saying to me .. Now .. we can work with this .. Now there's Truth .. Now there's an 'open door for me to come in and work, 'Now he is not the only one paranting her .. as i was with hera few more minutes my daughter said, Mommy ? what did daddy do .. i need to know .. i explained to her that some of this was daddy's story .. but that icould tell her one thing.. you know when you were with daddy and you told me he parked the car outsde of a place and you waited in the car uncomfortable ? she said yeah ?! .. i said well there was smething daddy bought that he tried that he thouht was a cigarrette andit turned out to not be a cigarrette .. but when he tred it, it began to confuse his thinking, etc.. change is behavior .. its what made daddy turn from happy to grumpy from calm to snappy from quet to yelling, from nice to sometimes irritable or not nice, etc .. in that regard i was able to focus more on a synthetic substance her dad tred . it was enough .. i did notbring up meth, etc .. the synthetic was a fill in substitute for meth, etc ..until he fellback infull blown landig back in jail .. i was able to say this is why we hope you never try anything that's offeredto you at school, or by friends, etc .. or anywhere .. that can hurt you or change your own thinking, etc .. i was able to exress it wasn't about 'blaming her dad .. that nrmally daddy has a good heart, etc .. that daddy was an adult and even he couldn't control everything because he's human and needs higher power's strength together with his own, etc .. well good bad right or wrong .. i was able to share that sometimes when we hear something true, it surprises or shocks us for a minute; but that we end up feeling better because we have a better understandingof things . said like don't you feel betternow knowing your dad didn't call not because he doesn't love you but becausehe can't ?.. she just sat there and said yeah .. but after ahile .. there was the look of sad understanding but some relief ..
well good bad right wrong; what i saw was the calmthat eventually came over her .. for the first time i recognised the Truth brings freedom .. facts are facts . instead of nurturing thedisease; we are nurturing the truth .. the power of the diseaseis 'weakened with Truth .. I was grateful i had turned it over .. this doesn't mean there won't be reactions or acting out .. but i was grateful to hear the therapist say .. you aren't screwing up your child by being honest with her .. facts are facts .. fact is .. daddy is in prison .. but jail is a term she used to put into a childlike understanding .. (i never had to pick the word, etc... she did that part)
this is only my experience .. just sharing it to say .. you are definitely not alone . the dynamics in an alcoholic famly are that we don't question reality there .. when we do, we aren't loyal .. every addict alc is goingto think we're mean for bringing things out in the open . but my loyalty now has turned to my daughter .. for years i was protecting him and keeping secrets and secretly resenting myself feeling powerless .. it was horrible .. i was abandoning my daughter Right alongside him .. but now ..my loyalty is where it belongs .. My daughter was the helpless one and i was enabling her confusion and darkness .. how sad is that .. when speaking to the therapist, he also pointed out the change in the situation can also change or Lessen the possibility of our girls growing up and marrying their fathers etc.. with no truth and awareness and having to work through her own confusion 'alone .. there's an even Greater chance of trying to fill this void ina much more negative way .. we flled it by puttig the missing pieces of Truth back in .. higher power as opposed to more and more lies .. disease .. her dad's ..
took her out for ice cream and told her that dad is an alcoholic. I believe I handled it extremely well and I was compassionate towards her father. She knew - she said she always knew and that all three of my children would talk about it. (I'm glad you chose Truth over your husband's disease ! your chidlren have a mother who cares about them; they are blessed ---/-@ ) never was the Truth that screwed Me up ..
want to clarify .. i was also careful not to blame everythig on the drug, or her dad, etc .. i shared in a way where i was able to focus on an illness withoutreally calling it one .. i do know it's the thinking disease there before but on a 10 year old level, she isn't going to get all that yet .. 10 is very young but at least new seeds have been planted .. grateful for the strong peace and clarity i received from hp on the truth .. one thing i cling to in these rooms andin recovery is guidance and wisdom .. i would get a million answers 'outside these rooms but we read it here at every meeting .. we understandbetter thn perhaps few people 'can .. it's the spiritual piece of the program .. Even some professionals may have told me no .. but i have experienced the effects of the confusion secrets the dark the lack of self esteem learned self abandonment .. i think the effects of the 'dark are far more harmful in the long run than the effects of the Truth and light .. kinda makes me want to go for icecream
metwo2 - I'm happy you are in a good place with your daughter. She sounds amazing!
I really like what you said about reality and how it stops existing in homes of addiction. Well, the "real" reality stops existing. Now when we realize that it is time to reach the "real" reality worlds collide.
But I know my kids will benefit in the long run. Don't know how I will fair but that is yet to be determined.
It's hard to be strong but it's the kids that pull us through.
Thank you for reaching out. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.
). You are doing fine and know that your daughter has a HP, too. This is painful for all of you, even your husband. My heart is swollen for all of you. Prayers for your family.