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Thanks for your honest posts. I am living a life full of fear at the moment because I no longer trust my husband. He is not an alcoholic. That's me. But he lived through the worst (God willing) of my active disease for 6 years before I got into recovery. Now, he has been (avoiding) dealing with his own admittedly-severe depression for going-on 6 years. He tried seeing a professional and stopped because the therapist made him feel stupid. He tried antidepressants but wouldn't take them consistently and could not find the Rx that didn't make him feel like a zombie or a time bomb. He has been to 2 Al-Anon meetings but admits he didn't give them a fair chance.
His depressive behaviors come in "binges." He can *seem* fine for a week or two, but then he goes down in flames because of an interaction with somebody or the thoughts in his own head. He confesses he only *seems* fine when he seems fine, that he is actually constantly depressed and tries to hide it or eat it or ignore it, but nothing helps. Won't see a new doctor, won't see a new therapist, won't go to meetings, won't take pharma. And, oddly enough, nothing changes, nothing improves.
I know I can't love him better, can't fix his problems, but I don't know what to do. I can't help but feel partly responsible for his condition, considering I am one of the alcoholics in his life (the only one in recovery, though).
The concept I'm really interested in learning about is detachment. How do I continue to be a supportive wife and be detached from his behaviors at the same time? I don't want him to crash and burn, but I had to, and I'm pretty sure he will have to find his own bottom as well. It's selfish to withhold from him the thing that helped me seek recovery. But it's also hard to watch this, and in front of our teenage sons. It's hard to realize my own powerlessness when I see him modeling this behavior for them. How do I let him fall and flail and own his own mess?
I am very new to Al-Anon, but I would appreciate your ES&H on the matter of detachment. Thanks.
I read about it in my 3 daily reader I got at my face to face meetings and in the book "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews with examples. Sending you love and support!
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
I didn't detach with love at first. I just detached. I was a total love addict coming in, he was my god. I did his laundry, ran errands, paid bills, did chores and I didn't even know who I was, let alone how to live my own life. I kept going back to meetings and soon I was going back for myself, not him or others anymore. I didn't know what peace and serenity was until the program. I was addicted to the drama. My husband is dry one year, no program. He has changed somewhat with my changes. He is more at peace and serene much of the time. I go to face to face meetings,do daily gratitude, I have a sponsor, working my steps daily, meditating and praying daily, doing daily readings, and contact friends in the program when I need to. Detachment with love comes with the program...Others will show you how. We do it with others, were not alone anymore. There's always someone to reach out to. I'm living my program 24 7 and I'm loving my life. It's not perfect but I'm content. I have progressed to the point where I love him and I accept him as he is. I don't always have to like his behaviors, but I can accept them and be grateful for all the good. Blessings on your recovery journey :)
-- Edited by karma13 on Monday 10th of March 2014 04:08:54 PM
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I needed these behaviors in my past they helped me survive I'm finding new and better ways to not just survive but thrive
Jillybean: thank you for the link! The descriptions are very helpful. I have some writing to do to get all of this out of my head.
BreakingFree: thank you for the book rec. I will see if I can find. Thank you!
Karma13: thank you for the ES&H. I think I have allowed this unhealthy relationship to become "normal," and it won't change until I change. Thank you for your compassion!
Aloha Kate...good to have you here "across the hall" as we use to say when doubling up on programs for our own longevity. Your partner may just be addicted to being depressed...I've got somewhat of that situation myself and while I am aware of it I am not her assessment initiator, or therapist or sponsor. I just left her a while ago with "there are other feelings you can choose...a smile...and with love". I can use our 3C practice on emotions and moods too. I haven't cause it...I cannot control it and will not cure it. It's her's sometimes I find the "drama" of it attempting to trigger some negative reaction or response and then that is exactly what the tools of the program are for and primarily my HP...#2...came to believe that my HP can restore me to sanity and #3 made a decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of my HP. I don't let her issues cling to me as if I was wearing velcro. My sponsor taught me "even emotions are choices" and so she gets to choose hers and I get to choose mine. I get to choose this time, not reacting, feeling grateful that I don't choose to be depressed because that just sucks big time, I don't choose to run and rerun the thinking tapes that keep me convinced that "everythings bad and it will never ever be good or even get better...and then go on to practice the drama and trauma. I love to laugh to much now...thank you Al-Anon. Keep coming back sis...don't take the first "think"...(((((Hugs)))))
Hi Kate,Welcome to MIP. I'm the person in our house that had the depression. I know today that I chose to live in depression because I wanted the attention on me. I wanted people to feel sorry for me. I WANTED my A to feel guilty about the life we had. Because after all he PUT me through all this chaos an bs! I was in the mental facility for 10 days and afterwards was on strong meds for years. One wk end we were at a big book study and the speaker was sharing on depression and meds and he said depression is a disease of feeling sorry for yourself. My light bulb went on. He went on to share if we work the 12 steps honestly and don't keep anything back we likely won't need antidepressants. I came home and quit using all my antidepressants and started working the program with a seriousness that I had never had before. I started a connection with my HP and my sponsor that has only continued to get deeper and better as time goes on. I have not found it necessary to use any meds since that day. NO ONE could have told me this the day before because I would not have heard it. We don't change our behavior or anything till our HP brings us to the point of readiness. Sometimes I've heard things 100s of times and it wasn't till the last time that the light bulb went on. So my experience with depression is no one could help me until I was ready for help. It's not anything you did while you were an active A an it's not anything you're doing now. It's our own choice if we want to live in that self pity mode or if we want to live life to its fullest. I encourage you to continue caring for yourself. I had to hit my bottom just like the A did. And as we say in our mtgs ( take what you like and leave the rest). Keep coming back an I hope to hear more from you. ((Hugs)) Mary.
I, too, struggled with depression that was so severe it felt like I was trying to lift up 2500 pounds to get out of a chair when I only weighed 120 and was almost 5'6" at the time and 31 years old. I went for help, but didn't seem to get better even with talk therapy. Finally, I hit a bottom and the help I needed just showed up on a downtown street in the form of a woman I hadn't liked and hadn't seen for a year or two. She told me the truth: "You look awful. Here, take this. It changed my life." She handed me a brochure and then drove me crazy getting me to where I needed to go. I entered a program for people who were grieving and wanted to close the door on their past. She was right. It did change my life. I found myself again and re-shaped my entire life. When I was ready, my HP was there to lead me (drag me) through the doors where true help and change for me awaited. I never took antidepressants. My depression came from losing myself in trying to help my husband overcome his own addictions. It failed. What didn't fail was my knowing I needed help - just not knowing that the help I needed wasn't anything I had ever experienced before I bottomed out on a downtown city street and help came to meet me with a brochure in her hand.
You didn't cause, can't control and can't cure your husband's depression anymore than he can. What you can do is continue with your own recovery work and trust that his HP is waiting with the right help for your husband somewhere. Kindness, courtesy and prayers will be helpful, too.
There's an acronym for detachment. "Don't Even Think About Changing Him". If he wants help he will find it. You are not qualified to help him. You can advise him to see professionals because you aren't one. Tell him al anon can help.
Hi NewLife Girl: I have advised professional help, Al-Anon, counseling (both individual and couples) and he is not willing. Says whoever he talks to will use his information against him. I don't think advice is what he needs. And it doesn't seem to help to listen, either, because it's the same broken record over and over.
It's been a relentless slog for years now, and my stamina isn't what it used to be when I thought he could work his way out of it.
But I've been trying to protect him from his own damage for long enough. I told him last night, no wonder he's sad: I was listening to him bully and berate himself for abt an hour. I'm done listening to the record. It doesn't change anything, and I don't get a good night's sleep.
But how do I stop the record without sounding like I'm dismissing his pain? It's a never-ending pity-party, no question, but how do I get out of the late-night poo-flinging without sounding mean?
Hi Grateful2Be: I have been stepping between him and his "bottom" for some time, and I know he has to get there, but it's hard to know how to get out of the way and let him feel the real pain and not become another enemy in his long list of people who don't care/understand. But he can't hear his HP if I'm covering his ears. Good point.
Hi Jerry: thanks for the ES&H. I love "don't take the first 'think'"! Fantastic! My AA sponsor just told me it's time for a new set of 12, so your shares will definitely be part of this next process.
Thanks!
Kate: I've learned that I can't control what other people think, feel or do. Even how he sees you or feels about you is beyond your control. I spent years trying to control how other people saw me. Validating myself and letting others see me as they saw me was a big help to me. QTIP, JADE, and the realization that others generally see us as they see themselves helped me spend more time with people who really like themselves and limit my time with those who don't.
Kate, my husband started drinking to quell his own depression. I remember thinking that I had to fix everything for him and make his life better and be happy all the time so that he would see this happiness and it would magically rub off on him. Oh, how naive and silly I was back then. My AH is depressed still, he still drinks, but he also takes an antidepressant.
Honestly, just like an alcoholic, he had to hit a bottom before he was ready to get help for his depression and go on meds. I begged for years, heard all the excuses, etc. One of which was, "I don't want to be in 'their' system. I don't want 'them' to know I am depressed." I was always trying to figure out who 'they' were for years? It was just an excuse. He also told me he didn't want to be a zombie on meds. Most of his depression came from work issues, fear about money issues, and from his past of living with 2 alcoholic depressed parents.
Now, here's the second part to his story. The meds helped for a bit but Paxil has actually been documented to cause alcohol cravings. So, when he started the meds his drinking got out of control. 6 months later he got a DUI after starting Paxil. I don't know truly if this was all because of Paxil but I think it was a combination of the fact that he was an alcoholic already and the meds just kicked it into high gear or something. As for the counseling, he went for a month or so at first and then decided the seratonin high was so wonderful and he didn't need help anymore so he stopped going to therapy.
We tried marriage counseling, he tried individual counseling again last year, but he never sticks with it. Makes excuses, lies to the therapists, etc. My therapist believes he is a narcissist and so did his own therapist. So, with a personality disorder, alcoholism, and depression on his plate my AH hasn't really improved despite the antidepressants. Anyway, that's part of our story, LOL.
I, too, went through years of late night poo flinging, listening to his pity parties, being his shoulder to cry on, etc. Now, I don't provoke anymore. I just nod my head and say, "I'm sorry you are suffering through this, I'm sorry your boss was mean, I'm really tired and have to go to bed now." And, then I leave the room and go to bed. Yep, I just leave him there. I don't give advice anymore, I don't express my own pain or fears or emotions to him anymore because that always made his own pity party worse and I'd have to sit and listen to how he couldn't help me or how he caused my problems and how can I expect him to fix them, etc, etc. That is how I taught myself to detach. I left him with his problem, I expressed my own sympathies to him, and I got on with my own life and my own recovery. It sounds easy when it's written out but man, it was so hard. Stepping out of the ring and leaving him there suffering(or at least it seems he was suffering) was so so hard. I wanted to rescue him, I wanted to enable him to continue his pity party, I wanted to be HIS knight in shining armor. I made my husband my god, and that was NOT a good thing. Al Anon and counseling have really helped me and I hope you find the time to get to some more Al Anon meetings. I know lots of folks who go to both AA and Al Anon. Hugs to you!
