Seeking suggestions - Al-Anon Family Group

eddieunger · Newbie

Seeking suggestions

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi eddie, and welcome to MIP!

Yes, please keep working on yourself, and I didn't hear if dad is doing that too, but that would be wonderful too of course.

I wish I could tell you a magic means of getting her to quit. it sounds like you are coming around to that notion, but I do realize it is difficult to sit and watch them. I have sat and watched my AW many nights passed out on vodka. It's extremely disturbing, and yes, nothing ever gets done.

I also wish I could tell you a magic means of approaching her to get chores done, etc. I failed miserably at that myself. We would end up fighting whenever I would confront her.

So I guess that only thing I can say about who does what is, if she isn't pulling her load, somebody will get to do it for her. If she seems adamant about not quitting, then, to me, that means she has a disabling disease that she won't treat and, at any other workplace, she would eventually get fired and replaced. I don't know if you want to "fire" her, but somebody will have to do the work, right?

This is why I, and so many other people, came to the conclusion that Al Anon was the only hope we had. It is so disturbing watching a loved one go down a spiral, and to have them consistently refuse to get help, that they end up sucking you down with them. Al Anon can help you to clear your head, so that you can make decisions like what you are asking. It also gives you support from a like-minded community of people who have all had almost disturbingly similar experiences.

You can look up Al Anon in the phone book, check it out on the web to find meetings. you can also attend online meetings here, you can see a ling in the upper-left hand corner of this page, you will be taken to a chat room and a schedule. Also, there are quite often people hanging in the chat room, I have met some of the wisest people I know in that chat room.

Also, reading posts here on the message board will help you understand what is going on. You can also PM any of us if you want to have any private conversations about matters.

Please keep coming back, the isolation that extreme alcoholism provokes is mind numbing.

Peace
Kenny

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi. Welcome to MIP. Al-Anon meetings, literature, the fellowship and MIP will help you keep the focus on you and to change what you can change with the help of the steps, slogans and program progress.

As much as I would like to tell you that there is something you can do to help your Mom seek treatment for her disease, I can't. What I can say is that Al-Anon helps us detach from the insanity of this disease one day at a time. We learn the 3cs - we haven't caused, can't control and can't cure the disease. We learn that we are powerless over it and over our loved one. We also learn that we aren't helpless and can make choices daily that can benefit us whether or not our loved one keeps drinking.

Much support and understanding. Please keep coming back. I, too, have a son who knows he has a drug and alcohol problem that he once sought treatment for, but has decided that he doesn't want to continue with recovery work. I have learned to let go of him and allow him to experience the consequences of his disease. Insanity for me was thinking there was anything I could do, would do or didn't do that could influence his desire to drink and use drugs. Once I could accept my powerlessness, I could accept that although alcoholism might be destroying my loved one, I didn't need to allow it to destroy me.

eddieunger · Newbie

Thank you both for your responses. I will definitely check out some meetings and the chat room.

What sort of daily choices can I make that will benefit me, regardless of her continuing to drink?

Also, we hardly speak anymore--this is more my doing than hers. Frankly, I just don't want to talk to her. We used to be very close. Is that part of it or should I swallow my resentment and act like everything is fine?

I think the hard part for me (and many, many others on here) is the fact that there is nothing I can do, so I feel like I am just sitting back, waiting for the worst to happen.

I really appreciate the responses--making for a good and hopeful Monday!

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

I think G2B said it in her first paragraph: Al-Anon meetings, literature, the fellowship and MIP. Specifically daily, I like the Al Anon daily reader Courage To Change, it gives you something to think about every day.

Also, some other reading that folks (including me) have gotten a lot out of is "Getting Them Sober" by Toy Rice Drews.

Kenny

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Ive learned that doing for the alcoholic - their chores, paying their bills, providing them with money, food, drink is not helping but hurting them. Alcoholics are difficult to be around and you have a choice whether you be in the company of someone who is drunk. I cannot stand it, I can react badly to a drunk family member, so I am choosing to not be involved with anyones active drinking. Its not easy but perfectly okay if you decide that is the best course of action. My son is a drinker and my ex husband is an alcoholic and when they have got an audience they go deeper into it, especially if that audience is constantly picking up the pieces. Your Mum has the choice to drink if she wants but you have the choice as to whether you watch. Good luck.x

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

What would you do if this was an employee ? would you tolerate her behavior or would you fire her ? As for her drinking there is nothing you can do about her choices , there is help for you and the rest of the family in Al-Anon meetings where we talk about enabling and detaching with love , we learn to protect ourselves where we can * business* . There is no reason for change as long as we continue to accept unexceptable behavior . Just my opinion . Louise

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm glad you have found us. The situation is more complicated since you have a family business. What I think Al-Anon suggests is that we don't give the drinker an artificially soft landing, for instance if she passes out on the sofa (or the floor), we don't carefully help them into bed we leave them to experience the consequences. Not if it's life-threatening, obviously (for instance if she passed out in the snow), and not if it threatens our own well-being (for instance if she passed out in your front office and scared off customers). It takes time and care to figure out how it all works. You've started by coming here.

I don't think there's any point to pretending everything is okay. Because it isn't. Al-Anon does help us to be calm and peaceful and respond with that serenity in our doings. But we don't have to pretend there's not an elephant in the room.

I hope you'll find a good face-to-face meeting, and keep coming back here. Reading the literature and all the threads is very helpful too.

eddieunger · Newbie

Thanks again everyone. A couple of more quick questions:

They live in a two-story house; my dad is constantly worried she's going to get drunk and fall down the stairs. What should he do?

Also, in regards to detachment, do you let the alcoholic know that you are employing this strategy? I guess I still am not sure what, if any, conversations I can or should be having with her.

You guys are a great help. It really speaks to your character and compassion that you would take time and give such thoughtful and complete answers to a total stranger. Thanks again. I will go to a face to face meeting soon.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

eddie,

It's always encouraging to have somebody who seems to listen! Not everybody does, and it does take time to get it.

I didn't used to, but now that I have Al Anon, I "say what I mean, mean what I say, but don't say it mean". If there is something that is bothering me, and it's something she should hear, by all means I let her know. I just don't expect her to listen. But it's still better than kicking myself later, saying "I should have at least said *something*".

If you are taking an action towards another person, I think everyone would like to know why, even alcoholics. They may or may not understand, but that is their side of the street. But I always wait until she is sober to tell her much of anything, anything else for me is just wasting breath.

Don't say it mean. Nobody likes to be talked to in a mean way, especially alcoholics. Their self-esteem is much lower than they let on. it is normally quite low, but the alcohol in them keeps them from seeing that they could have a choice to get out. I no longer say anything mean to my AW. This is easier now that she is in recovery, but I still get mean occasionally, it's just what happens sometimes, and I try to monitor myself and not do it, or apologize if something slips out. If I need to say something, but can't say it anyway but mean, I come on here to vent. You will see a number of vent posts if you look around.

Part of don't say it mean means also means don't get sucked into an argument, I just say it and get done. Arguing would get me nowhere fast with AW, and will turn me mean quick.

This slogan implies (to me) no nagging. Say it once, and done. I am not a natural nag, but when it comes to alcohol, I can nag, nag, nag, nag, grumble, nag... So, I say it, make sure she understood, then am done. If she chooses to listen to my pearls of wisdom, then great, if she doesn't. I don't have control over her, so all done.

Employing this has made my relationship much better. When my AW left inpatient therapy, she said that my nagging was killing her, and I came to see the light on that, and now I don't - well, I try real hard anyway :)

Kenny

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Eddie, its such a hard situation for everyone. I know I have spent years worrying about the alcoholics in my life. I imagined all sorts of terrible accidents would happen and worry myself sick of every doom and gloom scenario. I have come to realise that this is one of the symptoms of being affected by alcoholism. This belongs to me to work on.

If your Mother falls down the stairs or not, there is very little you or your Father can do, unless you all watch her 24 hours a day, follow her around ready to catch her if she falls. In my experience active alcoholics would let you do this, the more they are treated like babies the more they behave this way so the choice is really ours.

Detaching with love is one of the best gifts I got from Alanon, its about loving, not only the alcoholic, but loving ourselves. Watching and waiting for bad things to come is horrible and bad for our health so we need to detach, let go of the idea of being the saviour, being in control, always fearful, take our eyes off them and onto us and begin the process of healing, doing good things for our own life.

It sounds like your family are all entangled, the line where you are all individuals with individual needs and wants is blurred. My family was like this for many years. I am currently in the process of de-tangling, finding out about me, what I need for my life, regardless of what my loved ones are choosing to do with theirs. Im letting go of so much, long held irrational beliefs, living in fear, needing to control everything and everyone around me, a heavy burden of guilt. The list goes on and on.

Your Father would benefit from Alanon but that is his business, just like your Mum would benefit from AA but again thats her business. What are you going to do for you and your own life?

I have never explained any of my new behaviours or attitudes to my loved ones, especially not actively drinking ones because the changes are more about me, owning my own behaviour and letting go of the power the alcoholic has over my life, I am guarded in many ways, with my opinions, my views, my decisions because in my experience they are excellent manipulators so to let them in on the changes you are trying to make may mean they will work out a way to get things back to the way they want it. I see my recovery like armour, its about protecting me from a strong force that can hurt me. Alcoholics are cunning and can be devious so I keep my cards close to my chest.

-- Edited by el-cee on Monday 24th of February 2014 06:22:52 PM

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

hi and welcome.

What helped me was I realized and believed my A had a disease. I became very compassionate towards him. I was very close to him and loved him very much. He did not choose to be an A. As far as your mother, it has to be hard as she is your mother who we are to honor and have respect for them. You still can, she is just very sick.

We cannot control anyone but ourselves. She has a right to choose how she is going to live. She has a right to her own integrity A or not. Whether she does chores or works whatever is all her choice!

It sounds like she is very sick hon, maybe brain damaged, in the last stages of alcoholism. When someone has drank that long, their organs have to be compromised, including their brains. There is this condition called wet brain. I hate to share this stuff but sometimes we do not realize how very serious this illness is. And yes the disease is killing her slowly, we have no control over that. She believes this is part of her life to drink.Honestly for your family to expect anything of her really may be moot.From what you shared, she can no longer function normally at all.

For me I just loved my A and accepted him as is. I knew every moment I had with him drunk or not, was precious. So I used all the skills I learned here on mip. detached from his disease, it is none of my business anyway, cannot control it, didn't cause it, cannot cure it. My focus was loving him.

If he got mean or obnoxious I made sure I had things to go do. Just would say hey I am going to read, I am going to brush horses, whatever.

It's up to you guys. You could do boundaries but again to be honest, she probably in no way can function outside her home. I don't know if there is a bedroom down stairs, but i might ask dad about setting that up. Yes they do get in more accidents at this stage they also usually develop more serious health problems too.

She does not do this on purpose, it is NOT personal. This disease is very complicated. It is in ones dna and predisposes the person to develop it.

She is still your mom, and somewhere inside her she still loves you. To help you and Dad meetings and coming here will help you a lot.

It's ok for you to take care of yourselves. It's ok if you guys want to go fishing, go to dinner, have a life and she stays home. YOu don't have to feel guilty. its very ok to take care of you first. Mother is an adult, she can function as much as she can. It just may be the time that all you can do is make sure her basic needs are taken care of.

At this point, if she just quit drinking she would probably die with out being in the hospital. It would be very dangerous.Also drinking is only a symptom of the disease. Even if she did decide to stop and could,she may be the same and worse.

coming here for support will help you so much. I don't believe you can approach her, as she has made it plain what she wants. I found when I realized how sick he was, it was not his fault,there was no resentment or anything.We cannot resent a person having a disease. You love her, that can be said, there is no reason to not talk to her, she is still your mother. I looked at that time with my A, my dear husband as the most precious moments. I knew he could not just quit even if he wanted to, I knew he wanted to be accepted and loved as is, just like we all do.

I invite you to love your mom,hopefully look at it differently now. I feel very sad for her to have a husband and a lovely son who love her so much, however this horrible disease does not allow her to experience it.

hope to see you here a lot. sincerely!! Debilyn

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Eddie and welcome to the board from this part of the planet. You have made a good choice to reach out for help here. This is where the Experience, Strength and Hope is with lots of Al-Anon experience. My alcoholics and addicts were not my mother and it makes no difference...this is a disease that has infested our lives. It is not a moral issue...an issue of being good or bad it is about being sick with a life threatening disease which cannot be cure and only arrested by total abstinence. Alcoholism affects everyone it comes into contact with including fathers and sons or maybe especially fathers and sons. It use to me better expected for the man to be alcoholic and then not so now. Your mom has a life threatening disease which is fatal if not arrested and can also result in insanity which sounds like where the family is right now. It is a progressive disease; it always gets worse never better and if your mom was to gain some sober time and then go back out often it will be worse than before because of the progression. We have learned to hate the disease and love the sick person...that is what worked best for me with my alcoholic/addict wife and now my relapsing alcoholic/addict son. There is nothing there to hate but the disease. It doesn't make the disease go away and we learn to gain and maintain our peace of mind and serenity whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not. It takes work. It takes learing from others who had been there before me and who were willing to support me and love me unconditionally when I first arrived as you have. The meeting rooms do that and so does this MIP family.

Your mom is hyper-sensitive to what is going on and to you and your dad's reactions and body language. She knows she is sick...she knows she has been taken captive by alcohol...she wishes it wasn't so because this disease causes tons and tons of pain; physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. You are in the right place. When you find that meeting to attended ask or suggest to you dad that he come and visit and look into what others have and are doing who are married or such to a practicing alcoholic and or addict. If he says no...no problem; you go. Your mom said no already and you are here for yourself...that is what we do and why...we do for ourselves after all we didn't CAUSE this disease nor can we CONTROL it and for sure we will not CURE it. (those 3Cs are just one of our tools). Go to the meeting and pick up as much literature as you want for now and read it all.

You can move your mom and dad to the bottom floor of the house so she will be away from stairs and then she can always find her way up them and fall back down. Sorry that is not a nice picture however I have heard and seen worse. Prayers for you and your Dad and Mom. We do use a power greater than ourselves who some of us call God to help us do the best we can with what we have.

Keep coming back...((((hugs)))) smile

bud · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Eddie and welcome to MIP! You're in the right place. You've received good feedback from others. I find things work best when I can process the negative emotions with Alanon and be able to act and speak from a loving place- it takes a lot of practice, but so worth it! Sending prayers for you and your family. Please keep coming back and give Alanon a chance. This program works and provides the support- living with alcoholism/ addiction is much too much for most of us to handle alone. The answers will come.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.