Talking tonight - Al-Anon Family Group

SpiderArcana · Senior Member

Talking tonight

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

Good Morning Spider

I found over time I had to stop the talk. My son knows my feelings so to talk anymore is a waste of time on my part. If he wants to talk I say no..... just show me my son. I love you

Take care and stay strong because nothing change until something changes.

SpiderArcana · Senior Member

That's what I hope I'm strong enough to do. If he won't change, then there's no point any more. His drinking makes me miserable. I don't want to be miserable any more. I'm sick of it. I just hope I'm strong enough to stick to my convictions.

Sweet Stanley · ~*Service Worker*~

One slogan instantly came to mind..."Nothing changes if nothing changes." Stay strong and stay focused on YOUR needs.

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

Don't let him dominate the conversation!! The "talk" isn't about him. It's about you and how you have "manipulated him" into having the talk, and now he wants to manipulate you back so he has some control over you. He doesn't like your actions, and why would he? Keep the focus on yourself. Keep talking about what YOU want.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

I have no advice, but I do have an observation: If you said you are going to your parent's house for a few days, and you come back to talk, then you already haven't followed through on an action that you said you would - you said you would stay a few days. As mj said, he is already showing he doesn't like your actions. But his discomfort doesn't have to dictate that you come back and "talk", especially if you have been through it 20 times before and know it does no good, it is just wasting your and his time and emotional energy.

SpiderArcana · Senior Member

KennyFenderjazz wrote:
I have no advice, but I do have an observation: If you said you are going to your parent's house for a few days, and you come back to talk, then you already haven't followed through on an action that you said you would - you said you would stay a few days. As mj said, he is already showing he doesn't like your actions. But his discomfort doesn't have to dictate that you come back and "talk", especially if you have been through it 20 times before and know it does no good, it is just wasting your and his time and emotional energy.

I know, I know. I'm actually writing out talking points for myself because I know where this conversation usually goes. I'm probably deluding myself that maybe, maybe I will make him understand this time because I do not want my marriage to end. I'm hoping to make him (and myself) understand that it's finally become a boundary. 'If you continue to drink, I am going to leave you.' I don't know when, I don't know how, and I don't know if I'll be able to actually do it, but by HP I am going to try. It's not ok any more. It's not ok for him to speak to me the way he does. It's not ok for him to lie about how much he drinks, or that he is still drinking. It's not OK for me to be embarrassed by him when he drinks too much in social situations. I'm not doing it any more. I will no longer watch him drink himself to death. I will no longer be blamed for his life being so hard, or listen to him put responsibility everywhere but where it belongs. I'm done.

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

I had imaginary conversations with my ex where I tried every avenue I could think of to get him to see where I was coming from, in every one I wound up understanding that "that" tactic wouldn't work either. I imagined myself like the computer in "War Games" (don't laugh at me, laugh with me) going through every conceivable scenario and at each one finding that there was no winning move. Eventually concluding, as the computer did, that the only winning move is, not to play.

wornoutmrsfixit · Senior Member

If you have the book, Getting Them Sober - Volume 1, please read the chapter on how active alcoholics LOVE the talks with their wives. Its eye opening and you will be going in with some great insight.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

One of the lessons I have learned through living with alcoholism my whole adult life and through this program is that alcoholics will tell you exactly what you want to hear, all the promises that in their minds will be kept and in the moment seem perfectly reasonable and do-able but we have all been where you are, desperate to believe that they can change and it just needs talked over and some promises made.

This belief is flawed because this suggests an alcoholic has some control, they have a grip on the drinking, suggesting its not a disease but a weakness that can be overcame when they feel sorry enough, when you have said just the right thing or threatened just enough. The steps tell us 'we are powerless' over alcohol, you are powerless over his drinking and so is he if hes an alcoholic.

If we get them to promise to attend AA and get help it means they are being forced into recovery which wont work either because I don't think recovery works this way. Well it never for me, I got Alanon, my recovery, through reaching my own bottom, feeling the worst I had felt and feeling ready to give up all my bright ideas and plans that I believed would help me. I surrendered my will and opened my mind to a new way of thinking because I had enough, (20 years worth) evidence that told me my will was not working. I think the desire to get help and into recovery is a deeply personal thing that cant be forced it has to be truly felt, otherwise its just another part of the pretend, the denial that keeps us insane.

You are a part of this cycle like we all were. You are buying into it, playing the game, keeping it alive, you need to reach your own bottom and noone can give it to you. When you are ready to recover then you know that Alanon is waiting on you, your seat is there. There are really useful pamphlets that could help - 'The dilemma of the Alcoholic marriage' 'The merrygoround called denial'

Please take what you like and leave the rest.x

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

I have had a similar problem with boundaries - I think we all have! I worked with a counselor at AWs inpatient center on this. When AW was released, we were supposed to work on a relapse plan, in case it were to happen we would have a plan in place. All I could think of was "If you drink again, I will leave". With her help I was able instead to come up with "If you drink you will be taken to detox and then sober living". I was having a problem understanding that the consequences don't have to be so severe and permanent. If my AW relapses now, I have the plan, but if she relapses again, or can't/won't get better, I may decide to move the consequences to something more permanent.

I don't think this particular boundary would work for you, but how about something like "if you are drinking, I will go to my parents' house for 3 days" or whatever amount of time. Or "I'm going to sleep in the other bedroom for a week". It doesn't have to be all or nothing consequences, but it has to be well understood and communicated to him, and then acted upon decisively.

A number of times before I had tried boundaries like "I will leave If you drink - someday". Someday never came. When I make a boundary now, I try to make it something that I can execute immediately when it is crossed. That is why sometimes it's easier to have those lesser boundaries in place, they are easier to execute, and start establishing my credibility that I will act on ALL stated boundaries,

I hope you can find peace in yourself. I'm finally finding some of it, it's been a long few years behind me. Please go to some meetings, the people there are just as understanding as the ones here, and they can have coffee with you!

Kenny

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

likemyheart wrote:
I had imaginary conversations with my ex where I tried every avenue I could think of to get him to see where I was coming from, in every one I wound up understanding that "that" tactic wouldn't work either. I imagined myself like the computer in "War Games" (don't laugh at me, laugh with me) going through every conceivable scenario and at each one finding that there was no winning move. Eventually concluding, as the computer did, that the only winning move is, not to play.

I'm not going to laugh at you about that War Games computer, I'm going to unashamedly use that elsewhere biggrin

SpiderArcana · Senior Member

I do need to read Getting Them Sober - I just finished Co-Dependent No More, so it makes sense to move on to the Drews book.

I have no intention of making him go to AA, or to drop him off at detox or anything like that. For one, I don't think I could physically get him there. Two, he has to want recovery. Hell, he has to admit he has a problem first.

I know a lot of you think I shouldn't play the game, and I know this will probably end up the same way it did before. This will mark the 3rd, 'I'm leaving you if things don't change,' talk. But I have to try, and at least this time around I am equipped with the tools AlAnon has given me. We already sleep in separate bedrooms, so that won't work. However, I really, really like the 'If you drink I will leave for 3 days.' That makes it much more real for both of us, especially since I honestly don't know if I can just 100% walk away yet. Maybe it will be three strikes before I can really be out, or reach my bottom, or whatever.

Jen61 · ~*Service Worker*~

Only you know how you feel. No one can tell you what you need to do. I had a supervisor years ago who told me to leave my husband after the 2nd DUI. #1 it was very unprofessional and #2 it was none of her business. I love my husband and she did not. We can state our case to our AH and pray, pray and pray some more that things change, but in the end it is only up to us to change ourselves. It still is very hard for me to watch and at times I get a terrible feeling in the pit of my stomach. But with praying to my HP I feel more in control. Good luck and keep us posted.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Alanon asks you to wait a while before making those kind of decisions because until you get the awareness and acceptance you probably wont stick to your decisions anyway.
The leaflets I have read are conference approved which may make it a bit easier to work the program, I think you can order them online on the Alanon website or very little cost. Whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck.x

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

You are so right. I finally learned many years ago to ignore what they say, watch what they do.

The disease tears us up, getting away to rest and allow our self to just be is an excellent way to refuel. Sending you strength to do what is right for you! debilyn

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Sometimes, I just take long rides in the car with myself. It helps to calm me and it helps me hear me in ways I can't always do in the presence of others. I can leave miserable and come back in an hour or two much stronger and much more willing to see myself and a situation with new eyes. Heck! Just a trip to the grocery store for 45 minutes and the return home to more bedlam that was brought on by my just walking through the door 25 minutes later than the disease told me I could was enough for me to say to myself: "This is it. Look for the way out." I did and it was there.

I didn't want to end the marriage either, but there really wasn't a marriage of two people. I saw that in a crystal clear way just taking rides and going to a grocery store another day. My x was always sorry. He couldn't understand how he could treat me so badly. It finally dawned on me that it made no difference to me that he was sorry or why he behaved the way he did. I just knew I was done and there would be no more turning back.

Once we've had it, we've had it and it takes us as long as it takes us to get there. But, taking breaks from the circumstances can result in a big change of perspective sometimes. Lots of hugs, Spider.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 4th of February 2014 07:07:38 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 4th of February 2014 07:08:33 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 4th of February 2014 07:10:03 PM

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

I remember a lesson with my sponsor which the conversation was about making decisions in the alcoholics favor and not mine and my sponsor told me "If you have found that you have made a mistake...it is your responsibility to amend it". That is when I started daily inventorying my life especially with my alcoholic. I would make a decision with myself and then break it in her favor and when I realized it I would correct it and move back into my decision for myself. "I had to learn"...my job was to teach me and not her. If your decision for a few days with your parents was a sound decision for you...from my experience the best outcome you could have is to stay with it. Of course you will do what you will and from experience with this disease, "if nothing changes...nothing changes" applies to my consequences. (((((hugs))))) smile Keep coming back and posting....

yanksfan51 · ~*Service Worker*~

Spider--

You have received such great support and responses. I can only add that I have been there too--I remember being flabbergasted that my H didn't get it when I told him 'I know our life together won't survive if things don't change'; 'I know that one day I will just have to leave' and other variations of the same theme. I agree with Sweet Stanley and in fact just said the "nothing changes if nothing changes" slogan for my now ex-husband. It's so difficult but for me it was important to stay away from ultimatums until I really really without a doubt knew I was ready to follow through with them.

Wishing you lots of support--you are not alone Spider!

YF

angelenvy · Newbie

I just logged on tonight for the first time and your story really hits home, I am amazed to read these stories and how similar they are to mine. I have always felt alone and decided finally I needed to do something for myself. I hope I can learn from so many going before me. I wish you the best of luck, stay strong.

hopes314 · Senior Member

Here is something good that happened. My friend has been trying to stop drinking. He ended up getting the shot of naltrexone which has kept her sober. She wanted everyday to quit and hated everything she did and that she was going to lose her family and hated the DUI she got.
This has helped her get past to being sober because she needed more than herself to get her past the few days.
This disease is awful but when you see they are finally getting treatments that are working. The implants look like they help too.

It is a baffling disease.

jillybean1 · Senior Member

My mantra is "Don't be a waffle" because the A will just throw syrup on you.....you know all that sappy sugary stuff they say and promises that they won't keep. But I remember that while the syrup is GOOD, you really want and need that syrup. It is sooooo sticky that it traps you. STAY AWAY FROM THE SYRUP. Eat waffles don't be one. Boundaries are so hard to keep, but they are the only thing that work. They are for you.

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