The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Just wanted to ask what is the first step in dealing with folks in our lives that keep putting us down.
I have a problem of not answering back when someone is nasty to me. I don't like to confront any one on bad behavior. How do we know when is the time to be silent and when is the time to speak up.
I don't like to answer back, because I don't want to be alone. I bet that is not a new topic, but to me it is.
I think the answer varies for me regarding on situation.
What I have learnt in recovery is there is not point in talking to a drubk person, if it is not the alcoholic that is the person treating me unacceptably again there is no point in talking to an angrey person.
I am powerless over others, their attitudes, behaviours, feelings etc.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change.
However I have gained self love, respect and and learnt what I am responsible for thanks to Al anon.
If somebodies behaviour is unacceptable today I firstly remove myself from the situation and then I ring sponsor or al anon friend and talk it out. I may read literature and I pray for guidance. once I am clear on boundary and have checked my motives are good then I will go to the other person speak my truth quietly and set a boundary that I will stick too.
Courage to change the things I can
It has taken time to gain the wisdom to understand what I can and can not change I have had to work hard at recovery but the rewards are worth it. There are many al anon readings that talk about once we love and trust ourselves to care for our selves we do not neeed to fear things I am starting to feel this today.
I too wanted others to like love me. I was scared of being alone. However once I realised I would never be alone as I had Hp and al anon I got the courage to stand up for TRACY!!! and it feels good. Today I would rather spend time alone than with people who are sick and who hurt me, some people I love are sick but I spend less time with them today I have lots of lovely al anon family to be around who treat me the way I deserve.
keep coming back its really does work hugs tracy xxxxxx
I personally interpret that as a codependent question, yes.
I have gone from swallowing and believing all these put-downs, complaints and blame about me, to outright rejecting them, but I'm passing through angry retorts on the way to (hopefully) serenity! I think it was necessary for me, for whatever reason, to go the angry-retort route to get to a point where I can just let this stuff be his stuff, and not mine.
I have also learned that I'm good enough for my Higher Power, and that there are other ways not to be alone, were I to finally walk away from this person who complains and blames me practically every day. I'm not there yet but I'm getting closer each time.
You will find your own way with the help of Al anon's twelve steps.
Something I've been struggling with to lately. I will speak up now when I'm being treated wrongly, but need to walk away faster when the other person doesn't get it. I have to remember I'm speaking up for me, not for them because most likely, if they had it in them to be that nasty in the first place - They are not gonna change their views just because I spoke up. But if I would just state my boundary then walk away, odds are less that I will be drawn into the ongoing putdowns.
I'm also learning how to find a new balance in sticking up for myself.
At the moment things go best for me when I just state my case (i.e. if someone insults me I might say 'I'm offended by what you have said' and walk away. What I'm trying to achieve is a protection of my own self esteem without (a) going overboard and feeling guilty about it later or (b) insulting another person.
It is a strange, uncomfortable but also empowering and liberating learning curve
I start to try to decide whether I really want to put up with this behavior rather than be alone. Sometimes I would rather put up with the behavior, but more often these days I am starting to prefer being alone. I can always find others who won't be nasty to me.
Good question. You have received many excellent suggestions and I would just like to confirm that it is important to draw a boundary when this situation occurs.
In Al-Anon I saw that I reacted constantly to the world around me. Sometimes my reaction was to make myself invisible and not speak up or to become angry and strikeout and blame others. I never seemed to be able to speak my truth in a sane and responsible manner. Using Al-Anon tools I have learned to not react. I have listened with an open mind to whatever the person is saying, process it within my heart and then respond by validating myself. This validation in no way blames nor criticizes the other person, challenges what they have said, it merely states my truth and who I am and what I believe. For example if someone says you are mean and selfish. I would merely say I see myself as kind, generous, understanding and loving, I'm sorry that you see me differently. And then simply walk away. It is amazing how well this works. I am no longer invisible nor have I abandoned myself and that is very important.
Learning new healthy ways to communicate is what Al-Anon is all about. It truly is a process and will work when you work it.
Keep coming back
-- Edited by hotrod on Thursday 23rd of January 2014 11:23:49 AM
I always felt that I was "teaching" this person.... so I was really doing it FOR THEM. I had to realize that my motives had to be to do it for me, otherwise I was trying to be in control, in charge. I got really angry that they didn't get it. How come I was teaching them how to act? Why didn't they learn that while growing up? Oh yeah, they grew up in a crappy home. But that is not my problem. They have to be better than that.... but it is not my job to teach them. I have to defend ME by saying it once and not saying it mean..... or walking away. I have to take care of ME!
Lots of good program support you've received with strong e/s/h. I'm just going to send you some cyberspace hugs. This isn't easy stuff and sometimes just knowing we've got folks in our corner knowing how painful it can be to be us sometimes is a big help. (((Hugs))), encouragement and support as you accept what you can't change and find the courage to change what you can with the help of your HP and program tools and your MIP and Al-Anon family being sent your way.
Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean. I got to the point that holding things in was making me feel resentful so this slogan helped me lots. Sending you love and support!
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
I listen with grace and empathy and forgiveness and take the minds set that so often the person is not really trying to hurt me and is expressing a self concern...something that is important to their beliefs and perceptions and experiences and value. I listen and think of my response if I think I have one and want to use it and other times I decide to not respond at all...Turn away ...walk away. There are times I should do that and others which I believe are so important that I will respond with assertiveness and after responding don't ingage. Whether another person likes me or doesn't is their choice. I don't and won't act in that manner. Trusting me is a bonus and still that is their choice. When someone is nasty with me I ask myself the question..."what is it that I want to do with this"? and very often that isn't about me...it's about them coming to a different more appropriate behavior. I don't do nasty whether Its about my actions or the actions of others.
Gonna come back and read some more. Mahalo ((((hugs))))
Just wanted to ask what is the first step in dealing with folks in our lives that keep putting us down.I have a problem of not answering back when someone is nasty to me. I don't like to confront any one on bad behavior. How do we know when is the time to be silent and when is the time to speak up.
maryanne...good question.....what i do is first who said it??? what did they say??? then I THINK first b/c I do not want to react but respond......so i think, first...did they mean it??? or are they this way with everyone???? i have a sister or HAD a sister since i broke off all contact w/her b/c she put me down...her motives , i am sure, are b/c she hates me for dropping our father's name and doing a legal name change....she hates me for coming forward about my abuse in recovery.....so for HER...I used to say "if this putdowns continue, I will just exit the conversation and not respond....treat me with respect or you don't get to talk to me" .........the treatment continued.....so, I unfriended her off Facebook, blocked her nasty emails, blocked her phone...I cut her loose b/c my warnings of "repeat this and I will cut you off from me" did not work
some other folks, i can be around and one can put me down, say at a gathering and I will sometimes just ignore (after i consider options and scenario) OR I will sometimes "thank them for their share" and walk away OR I will say "gee, I like this dress i have on and what i like is most important to me, thank you for your share" and I walk on to chat w/others
a blatant put down where they use ugly language or menacing words, I just remove me, stay away from them.....NO second chances for stuff like that.....disconnect, walk away....stay away....an if they should apologize, yea, I might say thank you for your apology, but i do not let them back in my life to do it again.....because the real ugly stuff usually is a pattern of some sorts that I don't want to be the target on....
there are so many instances with program and practice you learn to apply the right response to the whatever was said or done against yhou
the big thing here is you are saying "NO" to what is going on...."NO' is a boundary to protect yourself and it is NOT to change the other, it is to set limits on you and what you will take....programmed teaches you how to take care of you....you cannot change another...an abusive person is just that....abusive.....my actions in saying "NO" are to usually just remove me from them and avoid them....if it is a "out of the blue" comment , not usual behaviour from a person you know and like, you might say "gee I am sorry you are having a bad day...I hope things get better " and if you really really have a nice relationship with them, you might say "if U want to talk, I will be glad to listen "
but there again, I can only scrape the tip of the ice on this one...........soo many scenarios and so many ways to say "NO" to abuse/put downs/bullying/threats, etc......
the operative word an action here is you are saying "NO" to bad treatment......the way you do it depends on a whole lot of situations but the bottom line is program teaches you how to protect yourself and saying "NO" is a big part in that
hope this helped a bit
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Part two............becuz put downs really really suck
I work at a company as their on site controller....receptionist was a B**** to me, big time...all b/c i refused to chat on FB w/her on company time...I work fridays...she was there full time...on a monday , an off day for me she wants to chat and i refused, saying that i did not want to do this while she was at work.....period
from that point on she was a nasty, snarky B**** to me....at first I ignored her....she just did not exist....that did not work.....so....plan B.....kill her wilth kindness.....I would come in....smile as usual and say "Good morning P" to her......and she would stick up her nose and i would just walk away w/my smile.....and when she got snarky with me, right in front of everyone I would say "gee i am sorry you are having a bad day, I hope things get better" and smile, walk away....i did it over and over...."gee I hope your day gets better, P" and walk away......i think i broke her down b/c the overt nastiness stopped....the "topper", before she just stopped and left me alone was when I had to fix her computer and shes putting me down as I was fixing her computer.........i just quietly got up and left the machine , unfixed, and walked away....boss comes in and he KNOWS whats been going on w/her....and he says "hey Rosie, whats up with the computer??" and i replied "well with all the noise and talking in my ear , I just cannot concentrate on this project and so perhaps you should call XXXX and they can maybe fix it remotely over the phone"...... next thing I know, she is away from her desk and i am invited to fix computer....when left to work in peace, i was able to get it back going....
work situations are really really hard b/c you are STUCK till either they leave...you leave...or it stops in another way....STILL, I say "NO" to abuse or impinging on my boundaries and limitations and b/c I know I am a good worker, I just take faith that they are not gonna fire me and go through the cost of finding another, just b/c I refused to take abuse and /or impinging on my boundaries....difficult people, i just try to tell myself that this is their problem, not mine, detach...stay away from them..keep it professional...no sharing personal info...no getting intimate w/them....no facebookking (lesson i learned with this gal) and just keep it professional...distant but nice....and I rarely attract abuse b/c I don't let anyone into my personal business...it can still happen and I know whats my job/what is not...don't mind helping another if it is not usary, but the boundaries are in place....
PS.......P left...much to the delight of most around here, including me....
-- Edited by neshema2 on Thursday 23rd of January 2014 01:22:23 PM
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
For me it really depends on the who, what and why.
My ex is just a mean and angry person. Nothing I say is going to make a difference - he will still continue to be mean and angry. Thankfully, I don't see or speak with him anymore. My ex-stepmother-inlaw just unleashed a crazy text tirade of nonsense on me last week and I tried to initially retort with the truth but all that did was unleash more. I finally told her if she was going to continue to be disrespectful, rude and abusive I would end all communication - and I have.
Then there are some people that are just being like that in the moment. They don't behave that way all the time and I will speak up if they hurt me and tell them so. Those are usually the folks that apologize - because they are reasonable, caring individuals.
Then there are some people I don't see or know well - social situations I'd say - and I will ignore it. No sense in getting into it with someone I don't know and won't see often. So long as it's not blatently abusive.
I do really like the way hotrod put it. I wish I had read that post prior to the exSIL nonsense last week. She is crazy. But then his whole family is...
I'm learning to have a voice to express my boundaries. For me, this is an important exercise in not taking on someone else's stuff. Also, there's something to be said for handing someone their "stuff" back.
In addition to what the other posts said, I also keep it brief and factual, and non-emotional as possible. "I'm not << insert stuff accused of>>, it doesn't apply to me/ reflect me, so I'm handing it back to you." Done. or "that's not true." Done. Many times it's easier for me to depersonalize it by saying "it" or "that", but sometimes I use "I". Their response or lack of response is not as important as me not collecting everyone's baggage. Also, this helps me not take the bait for an argument or defending myself.
I'm not sure why you term it a problem. Trying to reason with a drunk is like trying to nail Jello to a tree. Futile. One of the things we learn in Al-Anon is to set healthy boundaries. These are rules for me (not the A) One of my boundaries is I do not respond in conversation with people who do not speak to me in their "indoor" voice. If you want me to engage in conversation then you will speak to me in an acceptable tone. Boundaries are a reflection of my self-respect. I have every right to protect my serenity and disengage from situations that may disrupt it.
I do not have to JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend nor Explain) my positions. I am only responsible for my actions not your reaction. I too say what I mean, mean what I say & try not to say it mean. I must also learn to detach. Detachment is when I take a rational action rather than react with an emotional response.
The following is from the Al-Anon pamphlet on Detachment: Detachment is neither kind nor unkind. It does not imply judgement or condemnation of the person or situation from which we are
detaching. Separating ourselves from the adverse effects of another persons alcoholism can be a means of detaching: this does
not necessarily require physical separation. Detachment can help us look at our situations realistically and objectively.
Alcoholism is a family disease. Living with the effects of someone elses drinking is too devastating for most people to bear without help.
In Al-Anon we learn nothing we say or do can cause or stop someone elses drinking. We are not responsible for another persons
disease or recovery from it. Detachment allows us to let go of our obsession with anothers behavior and begin to lead happier and more manageable lives,
lives with dignity and rights, lives guided by a Power greater than ourselves. We can still love the person without liking the behavior.
IN AL-ANON WE LEARN:
Not to suffer because of the actions or
p>
reactions of other people
Not to allow ourselves to be used or
abused by others in the interest of
anothers recovery
Not to do for others what they can do
for themselves
Not to manipulate situations so others
will eat, go to bed, get up, pay bills, not
drink, or behave as we see fit
Not to cover up for anothers mistakes
or misdeeds
Not to create a crisis
Not to prevent a crisis if it is in the naturalcourse of events
DETACHMENT
By learning to focus on ourselves, our
>
attitudes and well-being improve. We allow
the alcoholics in our lives to experience the
consequences of their own actions.
-- Edited by Ifnotforgrace on Friday 24th of January 2014 12:50:08 AM
-- Edited by Ifnotforgrace on Friday 24th of January 2014 12:54:32 AM
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IF you can not be a good example; then you will just have to be a horrible warning
I think YOU GOt IT!!!!