Welcome to MIP. I don't know if he's manipulating you or if he's genuine. I do know that trusting my concerns is the best way to help me walk out of something that may not be in my best interest. To me, the first 3 months of dating somebody is like a honeymoon period when masks are on. As time passes, the real people begin to step forward and relate - or not.
If I saw in your bf what you are seeing, I'd go to Al-Anon meetings and learn what I can learn about this disease and how it affects us. I'd also trust that if the relationship no longer feels good to me and red flags are all over the place, my HP might be trying to get my attention.

I would very much like to speak to someone about it. I am a healthcare professional so know about the symptoms etc but he does not seem to be showing any which is obviously why I am in too minds to whether he is drinking or not. I know I there is not alot I can do about it if he is drinking and when I am at work and he is by himself he could very well go out and have a drink. I live within walking distance to a supermarket which he pretty much lives in so he could very well be buying alcohol when he goes there.
He has said that he is going to go into rehab and has been to a few lifeline meetings but not recently. He has letters from lifeline which is how I know he has gone. Lifeline are the ones who will give him a date for lifeline.
Would you wait any see what happens with regards to lifeline/rehab?

My experience with the A in my life is when it comes to drinking ..the disease lies it wants what it wants when it wants it. He will say anything to stay out of perceived trouble and big trouble. He will also imply I'm overreacting, I'm imaging things. If my gut is telling me something then you know what .. I need to listen. A story about him and myself .. he moved out I was cleaning the bathroom .. there are cabinets with space on top of them. Well I'm standing on my sink vanity to get up there thinking I'm dusting you can imagine my shock when I find empty pill bottles and tobacco cans (chew) lining this large area. He was still coming over at that point to help out. I asked him to remove the cans because I couldn't reach them .. his response was "I don't know how they got up there" I let him know I didn't ask how they got up there I just needed him to remove them. There were over 40 cans and pill bottles up there. He's 6'5" .. I don't chew, my 7 year old at the time, and 12 year old at the time don't chew .. we are talking about having to stand on a toilet and pitch the cans up .. lol. I had stopped a long time ago arguing with nonsense .. I saw the cans I knew what he was hiding .. and does it really matter? No .. I knew and know my own truth. 26 .. you are so young and kids are a lifetime commitment .. things to think about .. having children will not change his behavior .. it will probably make it worse. Outside love is not enough to change someone else. He wants to drink more than he wants to get better. Stay or leave that is your decision no one can make it for you .. I just hope you will get some clarity for yourself so whatever decision you make .. you do so with your eyes wide open to really and not based upon what under developed potential that may or may not come to pass. Alanon and the speakers are a really good place to start. Hugs

Whenever we enter into a relationship with a Alcoholic, recovering or not, we gamble with our life and sanity.

Not to say this will happen with you, but just be aware, you already seem to have doubts. I loved an alcoholic for 30 years. My experience, its a tough road, but I have no regrets., but I had Alanon along the way.

One thing for sure if you enter into the relationship you cannot go it alone, you need support which is Alanon. It would be good for you to start with a face to face meeting and gather as much reading material as you can. It's okay to love an alcoholic.

Nothing in this life is guaranteed even with a man who doesn't drink.
Bettina

Thank you for sharing your personal experience Jerry F! That is one of my main worries that he is lying to me for the sake of covering up his drinking, and like you have said there it is something that is quite commonly done. As my boyfriend says to me 'once an alcoholic always an alcoholic' and he has been battling this for years

He is not going to AA but lifeline which is what we have in our area for help with alcohol abuse. He has been going but I am concerned that he is going to these meetings but still drinking and then I am thinking what is the point? Yeah he might be going to them but does he actually want to stop?! Even when he says yes?!

I am hoping tht he fulfils his promise of rehab. He seems determined to go and start a new life!

My son was in rehab... was doing really well. Sent me emails as to his progress.....OH how much he has learn....he's finding his hp. I was so proud of him

4 days out of rehab....he was drinking.

It's NOT what they say......it's what they DO. Actions speak louder than words

Take care of you .....you are not alone.

I wanted to believe my ex so much when he claimed he wasn't drinking.  I know those excuses so well -- "That's an old bottle" -- "I don't know why you think you smell alcoholic, you're just paranoid" -- "Can't you have faith in me?" -- "Do you love me or not?"  The disease will say anything to keep itself going.

What I wish someone had told me is that most alcoholics do not ever achieve longterm sobriety.  The statistics are that something like 15-25% of those who enter recovery programs achieve sobriety longterm. Having been through the wringer with this, and with all the claims, promises and manipulations of the alcoholic, what I know now is that it's wisest to wait at minimum a year for a recovery alcoholic to get romantically involved with someone.  Early sobriety is too hard and too precarious.  Equally, we'd be wisest to wait until the A had at least a year in real recovery (not relapsing recovery), ideally 3 or 5 years.  Otherwise the danger is huge that relapse will happen and we will be too deep into the relationship to be able to detach and not get sucked into the worry, doubt, chaos, and insanity.

In my relationship I was always so eager to "know" what was going to happen.  Were we going to make it?  Was he going to stay sober?  But the truth is that there is time.  You could, for instance, dial back on your relationship and wait a year to see how his recovery is going.  If he's going to make it to longterm sobriety, that will be clear down the line.  There's no urgency to make a commitment before you've seen what the landscape holds.

I hope you'll read all you can on these boards and in the literature, find a good meeting, and take good care of yourself.

Sophie: There are all sorts of symptoms of his being an active A written in your story. Even health care professionals are affected by this disease and often don't even know it. Some of my former husband's best enablers were clergy, physicians, and psychologists. Instead of helping to use crisis to get him looking at treatment, they tended to minimize his symptoms and believe his charming bs. I'm not saying that what is happening in your case, but the fact that you've even posted here tells me that you are deeply concerned. As the former wife of an A/Addict and the mother of a son with this disease, that concern is valid and necessary for your well-being and that of your children. I've known affectionate alcoholics who weren't violent but they still drank themselves to death and caused untold suffering for their families on their way down.

Had I known what I know today about alcoholism, I would have walked away from the man I ended up marrying before we brought kids into the world. I would have continued in Alanon, too, since my whole family had been affected by alcoholism for generations and I didn't know it - nor did they. You have a chance to get help for yourself now. Al-Anon is that help.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 12th of January 2014 03:30:35 PM

Sophie: You said in a previous post that your biggest concern was his lying to you to cover up his drinking. In this most recent post, you're saying you're not buying into his bs and that you know too well when he is lying to you? I'm confused. I had the impression you weren't sure if he was lying until now.

I wish you the best with your friend and do hope you'll try Al-Anon. It can make all the difference in the world to you whether or not he continues to drink. Sending you lots of encouragement and support as you decide what you want for your life.

Yes. It sounds like the heart justifying what the mind knows better. It's Sophie's choice though (Sophie's choice...snicker...though I think the outcome will be the same as the movie...sad and depressing). At 2 months, someone is still proving themselves worthy of my trust and commitment, not getting 2nd chances.

 

 

Wow...one of the things I learned about drawing a person close to me rather than push them away was to think before I spoke and how I spoke.   That comes from "Say what I mean, mean what I say and don't say it mean"...I learned to stand in the other persons shoes and ask myself what would I think and how would I feel if I heard what I was about to say in the way I was about to say it. Saying that I don't mean to be mean isn't justification to act it out.   If you want to know how it comes off with the other person inventory their reaction...read their body language.   Often we acknowledge that we often act worse than our alcoholics...which is true.  For me doing it in the face of some one on this board who is getting it from an alcoholic also is a double wammy...no acceptable.

Al-Anon for me has never been an "In your face" program...AA lots of times and not Al-Anon.  There is a easier gentler way.  Its the way HP handles us.   When I got into recovery I was hurt and confused and doing the best I could with what I had...the program called that grace and margin and all newbies needed that without exception.  I did because the disease had brought me to my knees and drug me thru the mud for a long ways (didn't it to all of us)?

I will say this openly and honestly ...some of these shares sound exactly like the AAers who use to come on to me like they had the patent to serenity and sobriety while forgetting why and how they got here themselves and often that they were often newbies who had found  salvation without doing the work.

Don't ever forget where you came from...not ever and always remember...It's progress never perfection.  Inventory your own life and ask yourself the question...How well am I doing that I should want to lead?   Who am I really?  In support ((((hugs)))) 

And then for me the final question..."If I pull myself out of the equation and insert God would the situation come out differently"?

-- Edited by Jerry F on Monday 13th of January 2014 12:57:33 AM

-- Edited by Jerry F on Monday 13th of January 2014 12:59:14 AM

Sophie, I have read and watched.  Those of us that have lived and loved with alcoholics/addicts live with shame and do feel small when we see what we have chosen or settle for.  I worked in the healthcare field and in a mental health facility for many years.  When I dated men in my community, at times, I would ask the addiction counselors if they had ever heard of ______?  I thought I was being careful, as I did not want to get involved with an alcoholic.  Well, darn, didn't I go and marry, for the second time, an alcoholic???  I did so because I did not see my behaviors that kept me attached to men who abused substances.  I was a rescuer, a fixer, believed if I loved someone enough, gave them chances, they would change to be the men I wanted/needed them to be.   When I began to see the addictions and how destructive they were to me and my children, I went uh, oh, then I went into "seeing the positives" mode, minimized my needs, settled for little bits of comfort/attention and my soul dwindled away.  I dipped my toe into al anon and stopped because I knew if I were to really see what was happening, I was going to have to face me and take responsibility for my well being and the well being of my 4 children AND acknowledge, I had messed up, again.  Oh my pride, my poor wounded pride  Here I was, a healthcare professional, highly respected in my job and community and married, for the second time, a man that was unable to stop drinking.  On top of that he LIED and MANIPULATED.  I was in the business of not letting people con me, and I had a big con job going on in my own home.  How absurd was that?  I was living a big fat lie.

So, don't be so hard on you, sweetie.  Begin face to face al anon meetings (I don't recommend waiting so many years like me), check out the online meetings here and keep coming back so we may offer you the support you need to have a fabulous life.  Remember this, you are not needless or wantless...living with alcoholism shrinks our beliefs as to what those needs/wants are...we settle for crumbs.  Reach for the whole enchilada!  And we can love someone and not live with them.  (((hugs)))

-- Edited by PP on Monday 13th of January 2014 08:28:37 AM

Sophie: I am also a professional although in the helping professions. I attended tons of workshops, support groups, master level courses on pastoral care/counseling and read tons and tons of information that had to do with being present to people in a caring and professional way. I worked in the healthcare field, too, in various capacities.

One day, a recovering A talked about codependency and suggested I had codependent tendencies. I had all sorts of credits to my name, had done all sorts of work on myself, had more education that I probably even needed in various areas and even attended Al-Anon. She described a codependent to me and I just couldn't agree with her at the time. I also couldn't see the progressive alcoholism in my family of origin or the ways those of us who didn't drink contributed to the progression. It wasn't until my son presented with the disease that I could fully grasp the nature of the disease or how badly I had been allowing myself to be treated due to some underlying issues I still had and needed to work on.

Some of us may have come on too strong in this post? I don't know since I'm not you. I do have to say that if it hadn't been for the recovering A in my life I might never have realized that I really did have codependency issues that I needed to see and that I needed to find help to heal. Most of my co-workers and friends were also unaware of how they contributed to the progression of the disease and therefore we were all comfortable in our denial. It wasn't until much later that many of the same people I worked with or were close to began to have experiences of untreated alcoholics or addicts in their lives. Some, like me, are now in Al-Anon and working a program. Others still think its all about their A. This disease is truly baffling, cunning and powerful. It also isn't a respecter of our credentials, education, financial status, exercise programs or diet plans, or church membership. I thought it was, but it wasn't. I was hurt by this disease as were my children. It killed my husband. It is killing my son. It is killing some siblings of mine. It's killed friends. It's killing other friends.

The strong suggestion for Al-Anon really is to help you and not to make you feel small although I learned I am small and powerless over the affects of this disease without the help of this program. Please keep coming back. We do understand.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 13th of January 2014 08:26:50 PM

Hi Sophie,

Don't feel small! You have taken the first step towards your recovery, and that is a BIG DEAL!. Keep taking those steps! Growth can result in growing pains, but if you look at Breakingfree's sig, "Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional." Taking those steps will head off the suffering!

We have all done things that we later regret with our As, believe me. I was just writing on another post that I have bought wine for my A earlier this year. I regret so much having done that, I tell people all the time to help me to work through it.

But now that I am in Al Anon, I have learned to focus on the future. Not live in the past, but learn from it, and always improve ME, because nobody else is gonna do that!

Peace
Kenny

Jerry said Al-Anon for me has never been an "In your face" program...AA lots of times and not Al-Anon. There is a easier gentler way. Its the way HP handles us. When I got into recovery I was hurt and confused and doing the best I could with what I had...the program called that grace and margin and all newbies needed that without exception. I did because the disease had brought me to my knees and drug me thru the mud for a long ways (didn't it to all of us)?

I will say this openly and honestly ...some of these shares sound exactly like the AAers who use to come on to me like they had the patent to serenity and sobriety while forgetting why and how they got here themselves and often that they were often newbies who had found salvation without doing the work.

Don't ever forget where you came from...not ever and always remember...It's progress never perfection. Inventory your own life and ask yourself the question...How well am I doing that I should want to lead? Who am I really? In support ((((hugs)))) smile



^ May my higher power always keep me humble~ and this reminds me of the slogan... by the grace of god, there go I. A wonderful woman I know in the program, she has been in for at least twenty five years always says.. I can be a newbie again on any day..lol..about herself. It's important to remember this is a program of equals, and gently hold out our hand and open our ears. Thank you Jerry :)

I really appreciate everything you have told me there slogan_jim and I understand that you are looking out for me! I am a thankful that there is someone out there who can tell me straight either what a fool i am makin of myself or where I should go right. I have no one to tlk to about things like this, I can't really talk to my bf as he starts off cool and then ends up blowing up in my face. All I want to do is get him to tell me the truth! If only he told me the truth!

I have actually spoken with him about things, he told me to ask questions and he would answer them honestly. I started to ask him some personal questions and he was answering them quiet coolly to be honest. He actually said he to me 'no secrets, ask me questions and I will tell you the truth, no lies' he then got a bit angry. This is why I am reluctant to ask him which I have explained to him. I think it was when I actually said people who suffer from alcoholism say things to the people they love to get away with drinking that made him mad.

It is very hard to explain my feelings on here to people I dnt know but I am blessed to have people like you guys pointing me in the right direction!! I have leant a lot from everyone over the last few days and its opened my eyes.

Sophie, Getting Them Sober, by toby rice drew volume one... you can get it from Amazon.

It is hard to hear things when you two believe you are in love. Yes he can surely mean everything he says, even his lies. Their brains as an A can honestly believe what they are saying is true. that is the scarey part.

It is hard sometimes when we are a very seasoned Al Anoner to not say, "ARE YOU CRAZY! LEAVE NOW!" Lol but of course that does not help! Also we know everyone has to learn for themselves.

If he does go away to rehab, on his own, makes his own appointment, everything including transportation, he has a better chance of making himself a strong program than if you do anything. His disease is his own, none of our business. If he is drinking or not, none of our business. We either accept someone as is or we don't and we go.

Sadly even if one has a very strong recovery program, they are never cured. Relapse is always a part of being an addict. Does not mean they relapse but the fear and chance is always there.

Sometimes when we get on here we are misunderstood too. So don't feel hurt if we misunderstand something.

Wow you live in a beautiful place. Rehab that long is great. It honestly should be as long as the person needs it. Not like it is ok now its thirty days you are ready to leave!

Glad you came here, we do have meetings here too in the chat room. Jim is correct about many things. But again your guy really may want all the things he talks about with you. He may be manipulating and not even realize it, but again they are masters at it. You sound like you are being very careful, day at a time. please keep coming here, learning and sharing!  we care very much about you both, debilyn