The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I am not sure of the difference between advice and suggestions. I want to work on how I share my progress and I know that in order to keep it you must give it away. I am aware that sometimes my replys can be a bit reactionary, certain posts can trigger my emotions and I can become a bit panicky for the person and when I share it can be a bit demanding or a bit forceful. I can become too involved and I maybe controlling if Im honest. I want people to get the program because I know that it will help them and I want to be truthful and not shy away from saying what I mean but not mean and I don't want to be vague either.
Thank you for this topic. I come from a meeting tradition that does not correct or even comment on what other people say in the meeting.
I understood here, while it is not a meeting, we do not tell people what to do about their situation. It is sometimes SO CLEAR to me how someone could solve their serious problems if only they would do what I think.
I am seeing more and more people responding on the chat room (not meeting) by directly telling someone else what to do.
For me, it is profound to see or hear someone with a situation I have or had. It is easier to see what they should do - and then I get it. Oh that's going to help me, too, if I do what I think they should do. That's my own situation. Whoever decided we shouldn't react or tell what to do was sage.
Hearing experience, strength and hope is very different from hearing someone tell me what I should do. It's easier for me to accept. It removes my defensiveness. Someone else's ESH is what happened to them without guarantees it will work for me. But it might.
Hi, el cee: We have had discussions about this that you might want to read in our posts? Could be found under advice or sharing e/s/h? We've also had some discussions on crosstalk on the MIP board that is a forum and not a meeting. You may want to check out crosstalk headers, too? Just a suggestion here! Not advice. (Smile)
I do notice that sometimes advice is given here, CAL is not always mentioned, posters are challenged or questioned and crosstalk does happen. In formal Al-Anon meetings, some of what we do wouldn't be appropriate to the meetings. But, this is a forum and I think sometimes we get a little loose and don't always follow Al-Anon guidelines. Part of that, to me, is the fact that we are part of a forum, open to public view, sharing information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal basis(as the top of our board indicates). We are not in an Al-Anon meeting and we are not held strictly to Al-Anon meeting decorum. We are also not all Al-Anon members, so I don't think we'll ever avoid advice giving completely or any of the other things we're asked not to do in meetings.
I'm not of the opinion I should throw caution to the wind and totally ignore Al-Anon guides for members. I also don't clutch at my throat when someone gives advice or does other things that aren't usually allowed in meetings.
Given the nature of a forum and the indications of what this forum is meant to be for MIP members, I do think we do a really good job of sticking to Al-Anon principles even with all the variables involved. I don't expect everything to be the same here as in a meeting because it isn't.
I do think giving advice isn't a good thing when we aren't involved in somebody else's life and really don't know the whole story, but I also don't think it will always be avoided by any member of MIP or Al-Anon. We are all works in progress and we are at varying stages of healing and understanding of the Al-Anon program and its principles.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 8th of January 2014 06:06:08 PM
I am not sure of the difference between advice and suggestions. I want to work on how I share my progress and I know that in order to keep it you must give it away. I am aware that sometimes my replys can be a bit reactionary, certain posts can trigger my emotions and I can become a bit panicky for the person and when I share it can be a bit demanding or a bit forceful. I can become too involved and I maybe controlling if Im honest. I want people to get the program because I know that it will help them and I want to be truthful and not shy away from saying what I mean but not mean and I don't want to be vague either.
How do you give meaningful replys?
Hey el-cee, i think this is natural, we are "non" shrinks, just a bunch of recovering people and we see these horror stories and yea, we get concerned for the innocent..the vulnerable....to me?? if I keep the focus on MY experience.....MY what I did.....MY observations, then I am in knda safe territory.....suggestions imply that I am throwing out different options....advice is more focused on one action because it is a "tried and true" prospect...So no other options are viable........Alanon advises that we work it in its entirety because it is proven to be a sucessful program......Alanon also advises that one should be in program minimum 6 months before making serious decisions IF IT IS SAFE TO WAIT......a suggestion is more "open end" advice is kinda "proven to be true"........we "urge" people to get into meetings, steps, get sponsor, read literature, practice slogans because this is tried and true
suggestions would be like saying well why dont' you try the meetings or you can just talk to a friend about problem....it is more "options" more "open end" but we all know that to succeed in alanon, coda, aca, aa, na, oea, ea....the "advice" is to go to meets...have a sponsor..work the steps, do all the program parts if you want to prosper
now on a post of someone....a poster posts that they have a dilemma....it is not our right to tell them what to do....they have the right to do what they have to do whether we agree or not, however we can say "well I did this or saw that and this was what happened" es&h is giving our experience, strength and hope.....experience is the operative word...we base our posts on what WE experienced....now its a "no brainer" to say , if a poster is being beaten, threatened, is in physical danger, "please find a DV shelter in your area and see them ASAP" or to tell them to call 911....Some stuff calls for common sense...
I know i can come on pretty strong in my posts if i see a child endangered either physically, emotionally or mentally because the adults around her/him are in a mess of a relationship and the non drinking or non using spouse does nothing to spare that child from either witnessing or experiencing trauma....as a survivor of child abuse, I know first hand the damage done to me bcoz noone lifted a finger to remove me from that hell.......even my siblings who were not physically harmed, were damaged due to witnessing the chaos and drama...
When I see people who are wanting to help themselves, no worries..I will do what I can to give ES&H...if i see the same ole same ole with no hard work to help themselves, and it seems they only want pity or enabling or sympathy or rescue and they are not willing to do the hard work of the program and the sacrifices it requires for good results, and at least TRY to help themselves, I am gonna scroll on by , ..the ones who are hungry for change for the better and are reaching out, doing what they need to do to get to that point, meetings, sponsor, step work, slogan practice, reading literature, connecting w/a higher power of their understanding, I will give my support and es&h...The others?? God bless, but I am detaching more and more becoz i have my own stuff , my own life to deal with....
-- Edited by neshema2 on Wednesday 8th of January 2014 08:08:20 PM
-- Edited by neshema2 on Wednesday 8th of January 2014 08:13:21 PM
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I think, feel and do what Jill has mentioned because I was re-raised within the function of face to face meetings. I arrived at always doing what I was taught and not to continue reacting to or second guessing an invitation to support someone else. I don't give advise ever. I do give my esperiences as very truthfully as I can and without driving at self centered story telling. Keep in practice the 3Cees when sharing and I will most generally be satisfied with what I've shared. Great post. ((((hugs)))) Are you working a 12th right now?
I have given this topic a lot of thought and I acknowledge I have crossed over into giving advice, at times. Guidelines are clear cut in meetings but not so on the forum. I will be more mindful as to how I word my responses.
I have given this topic a lot of thought and I acknowledge I have crossed over into giving advice, at times. Guidelines are clear cut in meetings but not so on the forum. I will be more mindful as to how I word my responses.
I will keep the focus on me and my experiences, my take...and suggest giving alanon and its tools a shot....now i know most posters don't want to just hear "alanon suggests that one should go to meetings , find sponsor, get into steps, work slogans" and that is IT....how about I do that....AND add my es&h and then leave it...keep focus on me.....I, too have crossed lines...I get triggered or concerned and I do push that envelope....
I take responsibility for my actions and I will , too, be more mindful....the ones who are really working their program or the newbies who really want to work a program, this is a good response.....the ones who want enabling, sympathy, rescue, or to rehash the same ole war stories, and I see no progress or attempt to help themselves, this wont' apply so i need to: Detach....Let go....stay in my own corner.......work my program.......
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Hi everyone, thank you for your feedback. I wasn't doing a twelve step and I had to actually look that up because I thought step 12 was about getting a spiritual awakening but its about giving as well. Maybe this is 12 step work but it wasn't deliberate.
Anyway, the reason for my post is that there were 2 new comers at my meeting last night and I was thinking about my shares and feedback. I often get too involved on this forum, and I think my shares can be a bit arrogant and maybe more about me than the other person. I have felt that raw, uncensored reply's are useful and may have power to them, which they may but if I have made a commitment to follow the steps and traditions of this program and bring it into every aspect of my life then maybe I have a responsibility to be mindful of newcomers and make a conscious effort to only share my ESH. I mean its a lot to take in when you first come to Alanon and many newcomers have not surrendered yet so they dont get it at all. So how do we truly help them get it, by only sharing our ESH rather than sharing our emotions or our feelings on the subject? I am not blaming myself, I mean, Im learning, we all are and although I have 'came too' I am not all there in the head yet and I think Im where I need to be.x
A wise woman reminded me of how great we all are together when responding to people and I think we have enough evidence here to know that.
I was just thinking of my own motives. I want them to be better. It's all about me.lol.x
As a newcomer, I have caught myself reacting to posts. Typing like a mad woman a spirited response, only to read it back to myself and think, "dang... that sounds bossy and/or arrogant" and then I delete it all. Everyone learns/ grasps concepts at their own pace, and we don't always know what has been revealed of ones life story. We don't always know to what level any person is vested in a situation or relationship. I tend to share my personals in dribbles until I feel comfortable. I often don't feel qualified yet to reply on this forum. I'm not good at "small talk" and often I just don't reply. I do try to read all the posts to learn better how to listen. I am a bossy big mouth and I know that I am! lol hmm...Another defect to work on, my list is growing, thanks for bringing up this topic!
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Nothing has changed but my attitude, everything has changed.
I obviously haven't been around long enough to have much of an opinion about how to reply to posts. But I like what you have to say and how you say it, el-cee. I personally love when people share their own experiences re what I am experiencing. It reminds me that I'm not unique or crazy and there are other ways of dealing with and seeing myself and those around me. Plus it reminds me that there is light at the end of the tunnel and that others have walked this path before me and found growth and happiness.
When I do post I'm always trying to write from my heart without judgement. Sometimes it comes out wrong maybe but I pray that the person receiving my ESH will understand and take what they like and leave the rest. It's not easy because you will never know what others are thinking at the time.
Love, compassion, kindness, hope, courage and strength are what we can give.
I come on here daily and I see growth daily from members that came after me. It's a miracle and it gives me hope for a better future.
IT"S A WOW......Miracles in Progress
(((( hugs ))))
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
I like the way you post and always feel comfortable with your threads.
This topic has reminded me of when I first started to look for information. I was looking for answers and 'how to' lists (as if!!). I remember feeling frustrated that there was all this great info but no one telling me how to use it. 'Come on guys', I muttered, ' it could take years to figure this out, why don't you just cut to the chase and tell me what to do next?' Turned out that it was up to me to find the path I'm comfortable with, and I love that about our community.
Personally I like the input of different voices. When I come across something slightly controlling it can be a chance for me to practice my 'shall I/shan't I agree' choices. A little bit of toe stepping helps me to figure out and orienteer my path and practise stepping around holes. And a bit of 'kick arse plain talking' can really help as well once I've dusted myself down. Thank goodness for diversity I guess Sorry, you've got me thinking out loud and I'm enjoying my waffle! Hope it makes sense
I try to be careful and realize my ESH can help, I know have fallen short at times. I gained self esteem hearing healthier people in al-anon share ESH, than they gave me the respect to figure it out myself. If I had my own life all figured out I wouldn't be here and if I am still figuring it out for myself how can I advise anyone else how to live their life. Great post. Sending you all love and respect.
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
All I can share in any situation is my own experience and what I did to solve the problem for me . I have also learned that if I have not experienced something someone shares about I have learned to say so instead of saying I understand . In my area we often say ,we don't give advice but you may occasionally get some really really strong suggestions . Louise
I think Im actually doing really well, I am progressing and partly because of this forum, a big part.
I think Ive had my confidence shook a little because the newcomers at my home group are new and when I give them ESH, I can hear myself and I think I sound like I know it all. Ive been so used to being the newest member of my group and now I sound like one of the old timers and Im like 'listen to me as if I know it all' On top of that I have been asked to share next week at the top of the table and its because these new people will be able to relate to me apparently so Im feeling under pressure. I dont want to come accross like an old timer to real old timers. I think my craziness is resurfacing.lol.
I dont know if im making much sense to anyone or if this post is still even alive really but talking about this here is helping me get it straight in my head.x
You are.....stage fright. I get scared every time I just read out of the book chairing a meeting. For some reason I can't read anymore. Then to expand on a topic for the week really gets me going.
But you will OK just like I'm OK. It's practice not perfection
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
Your probably right Cathy, I cant even remember the topic I have to share on, nightmare!! Oh well, I will do my best but I know I will start ot obsess and worry a little despite my program.x
A third step before I do anything helps me get over stage fright. I do public speaking. I've done it for more than 27 years. There has never been a time I didn't get extremely nervous before speaking. I've learned that if I turn myself, the people in the room, what I think and what I say and the outcome into the hands of my HP, things turn out even better than if I had practiced for hours before I got there.
I've also facilitated our meetings and although I make sure to review everything before it comes time for the meeting so that I have the guides in the forefront of my mind, I am generally confronted with something that happens in the meeting that I never experienced or anticipated. Then, its as if what I read prior or what comes to my mind during the meeting is exactly what I need to say or do to deal with something happening in the meeting that is new.
We truly are trusted servants in the Al-Anon fellowship and our HP works through us if we supply the willingness. I see a willing servant in you, el-cee. You can be trusted to do and say what needs to be said and done in those meetings. See us all sitting with you and smiling at you! You sound good here. I don't see a reason why you'd sound any different as a speaker or chairing a meeting.
I might just do that Grateful, I am supposed to speak on something but I cant remember so I may just let HP guide me and I might learn something new about myself. I will try to think of you all, Cathy in her blanket wrapped round her head and you like a wee cat with a helmet, Neshema on her horse like a wee cowgirl, PP just looking so serene.lol.x
LOL! And now, you're going to be laughing the entire time. Good! Our groups can benefit from laughter. I noticed Cathy went back to her serene, more professional look? Too late, Cathy. The image of you that is now burned in all of our memories is you with - as el cee says - a blanket wrapped around your head!
-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 9th of January 2014 06:32:51 PM
I often still hear the same old voices before I share in a group...those that tell me I have nothing of importance to say, who cares, I am not going to make any sense, what will they think of me, they sound so wise and I sound so stupid...blah blah blah. I consciously surrender to God, like grateful, and just speak. Sometimes it flows out and sometimes it doesn't. And nobody cares and I know that is the truth. Perhaps these voices won't leave and perhaps they will, but they don't stop me anymore. You are awesome Ms el-cee.
Are you working a 12th right now? 
LOL! And now, you're going to be laughing the entire time. Good! Our groups can benefit from laughter. I noticed Cathy went back to her serene, more professional look? Too late, Cathy. The image of you that is now burned in all of our memories is you with - as el cee says - a blanket wrapped around your head!