The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
We had an agreement that while he took on the responsibility of my 5 year old to live with him an hour and a half away he would remain sober and actually begged me for the opportunity saying he needed this chance. So I per usual trust an A and go along with the agreement, but he was meeting with an AA sponsor and seemed to be heading into an actual program for the first time ever. So I have the girls for the last week because of break. I call him to let him know I am bringing my 5 year old back to him tomorrow and work out the details, only I hear it in his voice that he went out and I ask and he says yes, but only for awhile. So I get off the phone and send him an email reminding him about our agreement. I will copy it here for the most part blanking out my kids names, but tell me am I off the mark and just angry or was this a long time coming? I said things to him about his disease I never had said and am usually so good at staying out of his business. Bring on the ESH please. The email follows here......
If you want to white knuckle until the girls leave and go back to your old ways every time, fine so be it, but we made an agreement and for whatever reason you choose to work your program totally on your own which goes against the program and accountability system all together, that has proven to not work well, but you met with your AA sponsor and know there is AA and other options, but you aren't ready fine carry on in your insanity, keep heading wherever your headed. I am not an idiot and know you and heard the changes in your voice and knew when your disease was convincing you it needed to come back, I am no longer going to let your disease hurt me, I am done being emotionally attached to you yet again, my mistake and I own it. When you have the girls it is a different ball game and you will need to remain sober, even with just the little one. Do you remember we made an agreement about you having her and when and if I find out you can not abstain from alcohol while you have her changes will have to be made that I do not wish to make her transition any more than has to be, but you continually have to test my trust and boundaries with you, because that is what A's do. I am at a loss as to why you tell me you need and want this opportunity to get sober and get better, because in your words you are really doing badly and I hand you this opportunity for you to basically not be accountable to me when you did not keep your end of the bargain. If the deal is you will white knuckle it until any opportunity for you to have a night off and drink arises then change the deal I thought you made with me and at least be honest with me and most of all yourself of what is running your life. I know alcoholism is not going to make sense to me and I quit trying a long time ago to understand it, if that is how you want to go down that is your choice, but you will have to realize at some point you will have to do it alone without the girls having to bleed out while watching it up close and personal, I know she is only 5 but it affects her like the rest of us whether you can see that or not and she won't be 5 forever like our oldest at 15, now you have to start over and go back to not being able to enjoy life with her or play with her because you can barely function so you play video games and not take her anywhere or to any functions because God forbid you learn to live outside yourself!
__________________
Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
Sorry this is happening. You have just had a boundary trampled, one that involved your kids. Of all the non-negotiable boundaries, those are the most non-negotiable, and make us the most crazy!
But: I'm going to guess he stopped reading around "old ways". Then he read the whole thing and has twisted all the non-essential portions into something that he can use to yank your chain in some manner.
Besides, you have a black and white agreement, and black and white consequences. If you restate the agreement, and restate the consequences that were earned, that is all you need, and he can't twist it.
If I got more wordy with my AW, she would pull all the non-essential stuff out and use it against me to show how she hadn't even been drinking, or if she had it doesn't matter, or if it matters why it really doesn't matter, blah, blah, blah.
BF - it sounds to me like you just desperately wanted to some help coparenting ad you are entitled to it. It's not right or fair. It sounds like that is what sort of made you let down on your boundaries and expectations for him. Of course, in retrospect, it is a HUGE red flag for anyone to say something along the lines of "I need to have custody of our daughter to get my life together and stay sober." That is illogical and as far as the kids are concerned, it really needs to be "I have my life together so I am ready to be there for our daughter." No contingencies upon sobriety. Recovery first...all other things after. It has to be that way for us (the alcoholics) to stay sober anyhow.
I have not broken the promise I made to you to not drink while I have our youngest. I don't plan on this being a trend every time I don't have them but it is an area you need to stay away from. You don't have what it takes to be supportive when I'm doing well or what I need from you when I fail, so just leave it alone. I don't need you making me feel worse. How can someone who attends all the meetings you do be so clueless and insensitive about this stuff. She is doing great even without attending every function I'm sure you'd be dragging her to. I've been working very hard to give her my best and she has responded as I'm sure you can see but your not strong enough to give me even that credit. Its always about what I'm not doing right and that gets old, as usual.
I need to be quiet and just find my serenity again, I will no longer respond. Thanks for the ESH.
__________________
Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
It's a difficult situation and you have done the best you can with the information that you have at the present time. This is strictly my opinion take what you like and leave the rest .. I tend to agree with both Pink and Kenny, .. the less wordy the better. Once the A gets called into accountability I think they turn their hearing off (or reading in this case). He has shown you who he is, .. maybe you need to believe him. He can't remain sober, that's not to say he's not trying .. he just can't do it because he's not ready. Maybe he will be, .. maybe he won't be .. whatever it is .. that's not any persons plan for him .. it's his HP's plan if he chooses it.
I want my stbax to be able to co-parent .. ok .. stop laughing .. no I don't .. LOL .. I want him to be present when and if he ever takes the kids again .. the reality of that is completely off the marker from what I want. Those are the things I can't change and I am powerless over. Sometimes I have to make really difficult decisions when it comes to the kids such as my daughter testifying at court. He REALLY doesn't believe what I say .. he better believe the courts actions. As much as I think (the A doesn't think like I do) he should man up and accept his part in what happened in violating the OP .. he doesn't see it that way. He has a million and one ways to rationalize why he shouldn't be held accountable.
You made a very difficult decision trying to do what is best for your youngest with someone who is an active A. There is no logical pattern in following an A's train of thought anymore than there is mine when I start obsessing about a decision I made and now I'm not sure of. My thinking becomes distorted without knowing it and I think I can control situations that no .. I really can't. The thing is you can't make him be sober just because he's got your little girl .. he will or he won't .. the question really is are you willing to mean what you say .. say what you mean and let go and trust your HP to guide you.
I don't think you were mean .. maybe some unrealistic expectations that he's going to be sober just because he's got your youngest .. hon, if he can't be sober and they aren't there .. that screams he's not going to be sober while he has her.
Hugs sis, so sorry this is hard on you and the girls .. I so understand the inner battle, S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
My AW complains about me not having faith in her and making her feel like crap when I do talk to her about transgressions she has done in the past. And I can't blame her, nobody likes having their sins thrown back in their face, especially on being an A when so much of what they do maybe they start but after a while have no choice in either. So I vent at MIP and AlAnon: that excuse is gone for her, and I get to vent to people who understand and can sympathize rather than try to twist my words to their advantage.
Keep looking for your serenity, you will find it. Glad you came to MIP.
I don't hear unkindness from you and I agree with the others. You and the girls were betrayed and conned by an active alcoholic; I know it hurts and I am sorry. You made a healthy decision to not respond. We are here for you and your recovery.
I don't hear unkindness from you and I agree with the others. You and the girls were betrayed and conned by an active alcoholic; I know it hurts and I am sorry. You made a healthy decision to not respond. We are here for you and your recovery.
I agree with the others, BF....YOU got the bad end of the stick here.....he is saying , kind of, I'll be sober IF....such and such happens.
AA is a no bargaining propositions......recovery comes first so he can THEN be a dad and be responsible
also I don't think you were unkind at all...he, on the other hand was very defensive, still in denial, it seems and ya know??? i think you did well..stated your feelings and to get into a back and forth arguement with a drunk or active alcoholic, is like getting into a peeing contest w/a skunk....it just does not come out well......sorry this happened....you had the right to expect him to man up and help w/the little one, but sadly when we have any expectations of a NOT in recovery alcoholic, we get disappointed every time........your letter was NOT unkind......
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I dont think you were unkind, he has let you down again. He still thinks he has control, he is behaving like an alcoholic.
I wanted my ex to be a father too and he couldnt do it, ever really, even when we were together he couldnt take responsibility for our kids, i remember when my kids were really young, my youngest was a baby and I got a phone call at work from my daughter , she was only about 6 or 7, she said dads sleeping and wont wake up. Of course i rushed home and there he was passed out steaming drunk. Anything could have happened, no wonder we hate and build up resentment.
I also wanted my youngest to go to his dads for a while but he couldnt be trusted and he didnt want that anyway. Its really really unfair, your not asking for anything special or out the ordinary, just for a father to be a father, he wants to but he cant. He cant use your wee girl either thats not fair or honest really. Im sorry bf, I hope you can still continue on with your nursing, sending you my love.x
-- Edited by el-cee on Thursday 2nd of January 2014 05:00:21 PM
I agree with many other responses. We want so badly for the A to finally "get" it, get help, and stay sober that, I at least, will grab onto almost any change for the better as the much sought after, much prayed for salvation of our family. I did the same but had a slightly different take. I wrote up a 3 line "agreement" with a proviso that any deviation would invalidate it and had both of us sign it. "If you stay sober, you can see your child. If you drink, whether child is with you or not, you lose visitation. Visitation will resume upon completion of treatment program and proof of 3 months of sponsored sobriety (as in, signed meeting attendance schedule).
Well...being an alcoholic uninterested in getting sober and newly married to his 15 year old "wife," he disagreed totally. Believe it or not his child bride used to call me for help and advice! It was the child visitation version of the condensed 3 steps:
I cant,
He can,
I'll let him.
Keep it simple is the only way to insure an alcoholic cant wiggle out. Notice I say "cant" since every A on the planet will try to get around it! Good luck. For encouragement's sake, the end of this tale is that the A thanked me for raising his boy well and still wants to get back with me after 25 more years of a liter of boxed wine per day. He's a mean drunk and is witty, kind and loving to me when he's sober and...as long as I am 2000 miles away.
I can relate to much of what you described; have heard similar declarations from my soon to be ex AH who at this time is white knuckling again. It is disheartening to be sure. Your kids' safetly is on the line, you had an agreement, he broke it. It is too easy for our emotions to get in on the act but plain and simple this is what happened. I also agree w pinkchip that it is a red flag to have him 'need custody' in any way IN ORDER to stay sober? My A has done the same in smaller situations--making sure to take our oldest with him in situations when he would normally drink, leaning on that a bit instead of.......meetings, sponsor, working a program.
Strength to you--it ain't easy we all know that :)
The response from him sounds like typical "you don't praise me for when I act like a grown up" crap that I used to say and my ex A did too. And the insinuation that you go to Alanon to become "sensitive and caring" towards his active alcoholism is also typical self centered "all about me" alcoholic thinking.
Wow. If only my exAH would communicate at all...I imagine these are conversations that would be had. I didn't see anything mean in your post but - not sure how your exAH is - my exAH would have read a sentence, maybe.
You know what I love about e-mail? You can edit it before sending...I got very good (when he barely communicated) at making it short and to the point. His retort was interesting. You aren't his cheerleader - you are watching out for the safety and health of your 5 year old. They don't like that, do they? My ex didn't. So relate-able.
The response from him sounds like typical "you don't praise me for when I act like a grown up" crap that I used to say and my ex A did too. And the insinuation that you go to Alanon to become "sensitive and caring" towards his active alcoholism is also typical self centered "all about me" alcoholic thinking.
Oh yea, the "all about me" thinking....I don't miss this at all....I SO enjoy my peace, now...
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
