He says he'll moderate - Al-Anon Family Group

irukan · Member

He says he'll moderate

irukan · Member

An add on: I just told him about my worry that he has said he would moderate before, and that if the old pattern resumes, I will need to leave. I wanted to hear from him that this time is different. He said this time he means it, and that he will not say it again. He also got upset that I said I'd support him, and he said my doubts are not supportive. (My doubts have to do with the abundance of evidence that drinkers, including me, cannot moderate.) Wow, just writing and reading this makes me realize I am following a path of codependence many others before me have walked. If I keep depending on his actions for me to be happy, that is a powerless position to be in.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

In my experience, real alcoholics are unable to moderate. So yeah..If he is one...It will just be words because it's ongoing denial.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Just writing and posting gave you your answers and pinkchip validated them for you. Since you have been where he is, you know there is no moderation. Keep coming back, we are a supportive group.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

pinkchip wrote:
In my experience, real alcoholics are unable to moderate. So yeah..If he is one...It will just be words because it's ongoing denial.

agree....they CANT moderate....the body builds a tolerence, need for more, so its either AA/Sobriety or increased drining as time goes by.......I left my A's...that was my choice....everyone has to decide to go/stay on their own....working the program can help you take the best care of you....

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

((((Irukan))))...you're at part of my story a bit also. My change surprisingly came when my sponsor told me I had to "separate myself from all things alcohol" and amazingly I did that quick and easy. I separated myself from drinking family, friends, associates and my alcoholic/addict wife. I didn't even know at that time that I was also alcoholic. I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know...I was just clueless. One of the reasons I quit drinking was because my alcoholic/addict wife chased my drinking and always got drunker/sicker faster and the "fun" went away. Still as I learned in the rooms "there never ever was "fun" inside of the disease"...it was always sick. I stopped drinking...attended to the program as it was being taught me in the rooms of Al-Anon and then made my way into AA also while HP held up the lantern before my feet. I am fortunate to be alive and grateful to be here one more day. Keep coming back...do what you need to do to gain and maintain your sobriety and serenity. Keep your hand reaching out to your HP and the fellowship and never be afraid to ask, "can you help me"? In support.

(((((hugs))))) smile

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

It's good you were able to write this and see what you are doing to yourself. Maybe time to be proactive and not reactive to him?

If you set a boundary that you wont live under the same roof with *any* alcohol, and tell him that, he should have all the motivation he needs if he isn't an alcoholic. If he is an alcoholic, your separating from him, in whatever manner that is (leave for night, leave for week, leaving for good, whatever) might be they way his HP nudges him into treatment. And give you a break from the craziness!

The separation doesn't have to be for good. I have told my AW, now that she is in recovery, that she will go to sober up if she has any alcohol again. She will go to a halfway house associated with the rehab she just left, and we will talk to the counselors there (who are very good not enablers) about what to do next.

whatever time period you choose, have a plan all ready to go for if/when it occurs.

Lastly, you have to take care of your own recovery. If you slip because of this then you both will be in a bad spot!!

Hugs
Kenny

irukan · Member

Thank you all. He said he will absolutely not consider making our house alcohol-free. His main reasoning is for if we have guests. I know, it's possible to invite guests and ask them to bring and take away their own. But I really don't have an issue with moderate drinking. It's the heavy drinking. Oddly, I feel like I need to see this through. Is it because my parents divorced? Because my grandmother stayed with my alcoholic grandfather? Because until I quit drinking, our marriage never felt "too bad to stay," and I hope it can be reversed so it can be "too good to leave." I believe in solidifying my plan for if he can't follow through. Also to start really using the Al-Anon strategies for building up my own self-esteem and proactiveness. And most importantly maintaining this wondrous choice of my own sobriety!

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Keep going to those meetings, and keep making proactive decisions like you at making!

Keep coming back

Kenny

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Alcoholism is so insane. After all "guests" matter so much more than your marriage, health, your sobriety, his, your wishes... Guests to my home could give 2 craps if I have liquor for them or not.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

My home is alcohol free...no issues and no resentments or arguments from anyone. There are no inforcers at the door and since the neighborhood know that my wife and I don't drink or use it is expected that we won't. We use to read the AMA definition of alcoholism at our early Al-Anon meeting which read in part that "Alcoholism is a disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions...it is a compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body. It can never be cured; only arrested by total abstinence. It is progressive and that if the alcoholic were to stop for any period of time and then restart often it will be worse. There will be as if no time of sobriety existed. The alcoholic has but three choices, sobriety, insanity or death". It goes on to include us..."We are as affected as the alcoholic and worse in that we do not have the anesthesia of alcohol to block out reality. We also affect everyone we come into contact with as the alcoholic does and have much the same three choices; Serenity, insanity or death". I've been in program long enough to see all of this happen and I have also participated myself. I've reached insanity and I've nearly reached the death they speak of. I am beyond grateful to my Higher Power and the Program of the Al-Anon Family Groups that I am much farther away from the possibility of that happening now as a result of the steps, traditions, concepts, slogans, sponsorship and the other tools given to me since I found the doors of recovery. MIP is also one of my tools. I Pray you continue to follow the suggestions and keep coming back here also. Do not attempt to get into a discussion with this cunning, powerful and baffling disease. You will not arrive at sanity from trying to negotiate with the insane...won't happen...cannot get a loaf of bread from a hardware store.

Keep coming back (((((hugs))))) smile

Mimi3 · Senior Member

irukan~

As you know, this disease is Cunning, Baffling & powerful, there is NO such thing as moderation...

Keep coming back, it works if you work it!

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Um ok he says,"Honey I will moderate drinking this poison to my body." huh? Alcohol is poison for the A. Any excuse the A disease uses is manipulation.

I know it is hard but when we make a boundary like that, we must stick to it or we look so easily controlled by the A. I am not saying leave. We onlyo must be careful what we say.

No I see this as a boundary. I will not even consider an intimate relationship with an A. Friends yes, more, no.

There is NO moderation. no such thing when it comes to an A.

Keep coming and sharing. We are sooo happy you are venting with us!

hugz, debilyn

flinn66 · Senior Member

Only echoing the other shares. With an alcoholic it is all or nothing, I have heard so called experts talk about 'controlled drinking' - it is an illusion/delusion.

Whether you stay or leave the one thing I have learnt in this fellowship is that an A will use any lies/manipulations to convince themselves that they can control it, its part of the insanity - tragic but nothing I can do about it apart from use all the tools of this program to ensure my sanity and serenity and deal with the reality of this cunning disease

Hugs

ilovedogs · ~*Service Worker*~

My AH tried controlled drinking, that's when he started hiding the bottles. Once he knew that I only expected to see him drink 2 beers at night, he started hiding vodka in his desk drawer and would drink during the day, too.

As you know, they say alcoholism is cunning, baffling, and powerful and most alcoholics will do or say whatever it takes to keep the disease alive. Agreeing with everyone here. Also, you asked about your ultimatum/boundary about leaving. I agree with what Debilyn said, make sure you follow through or else they will see it as an empty threat and will test you. Get a plan B in place and if you really will leave, I suggest making that a plan and writing out how you will accomplish it, where you will go, set money aside, etc. I've been setting aside things for my plan B for 2 years now. Still hanging on in my marriage, but knowing that I am ready to leave if ever I don't feel safe again. Knowing that I am tired of accepting unacceptable behavior.

crazycatlady · Member

Hugs to you Irukan--I absolutely agree with the other posts that an A cannot "moderate" their drinking. There is a psychological and physiological change that is spurred by ingestion of alcohol that makes them want more and be unable to stop at moderate. BUT I do understand the importance for Your A and for YOU to see this through. An important part if the A'sjourney is setting limits for amount consumed/times/places for drinking, but not being able to stick with them. That is one of the ways they are able to come to terms with their own powerlessness. This is an important process for you too as you explore your own denial that perhaps your H is alcoholic. You may need to see his attempts to moderate,, and then likely be unable to do so. Patience is difficult and recovery is a process--not an event. Best to you! Crazy cat lady

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

pinkchip wrote:
Alcoholism is so insane. After all "guests" matter so much more than your marriage, health, your sobriety, his, your wishes... Guests to my home could give 2 craps if I have liquor for them or not.

yep, me too....Jerry noted about separating from anything alcohol, and I can relate......when people come to my home, they are there to see me....they could care what i have in my house....

Now I DO have this bottle of wine (3 ltres) given to me back , I think, b4 Thanksgiving and I have sipped a glass out of it maybe 3- times in 2 months going on??? lets say that it aint used much, but I am not addict to alcohol and i don't entertain alkies in my home.

I AM addicted to certain chocolates....organic milk chocolate bars, those bars you get at whole foods, and also M&M's, whole foods organic M&M's....not that junk in the stores...good thing WF closed up store near me becuz its now harder to get their candies....nestle milk choc. is the only non organic I will eat...........so....I don't have them in my house......plain and simple......i can't stop once i get into that candy, so I don't have it in the house.......

I can go to a friend's house and have a candy bar and i am FINE....buy it and bring it home??? I pig out so bad its terrible......comfort food, I guess....I got for Xmas a "pounder" nestle choc. bar from someone very sweet and i took it home....I ate 1/2 of it one night....next night i ate the other 1/2......now its gone.......and I am "cleansing" out so to speak and will feel better from all that sugar in another couple of days, i guess.....I sweeten my coffee with either molasses or pure, organic honey...neither to which i am addicted....

so an addiction is an addiction and needs to NOT be in my house if I cannot stop when I open it.....those candies, I just cannot go to WF and buy them......end of case....I know my weaknesses and I accept it and respond in kind....

JUST saying....please take what you can use and discard the rest....

sad_dog_mommy · Veteran Member

I know in his heart he thinks he can drink moderately. The problem is that in his disease there is no such thing as moderation. Alcohol to an alcoholic is like a person who is allergic to peanuts eating a peanut butter sandwich for lunch everyday. Their body cannot process the alcohol/allergen.

Do what you say, and say what you mean but do not say it in a mean way.

Only you know what is best for you. If you don't stand up for what you need, you might not get it. Prepare yourself for the fact me might try to manipulate you into staying. Alcoholics are really good at subtle manipulation. Just hold your head high and detach with love.

irukan · Member

I suppose it is denial on my part, and manipulation on his.

It all feels so negative and spirit-sapping on one hand, but so exuberantly hopeful on the other. I believe people have the power to change.

But at the same time, I am worried and fearful now that I am making a terrible mistake. I told him the day after we spoke that I had doubts about moderation. I know he can't moderate - I've seen it the whole time I've been with him. But he never had motivation like this before - that he might lose the love of his life over it. That's my hope. I love the closeness I've had with him and the love.

And great advice to write down my Plan B. Should I show the parts about how much I'm willing to tolerate from him? Details like - What I will do if he gets drunk. How many times I can bear him being drunk and me not being with him on a regular basis (that's the consequence - he's drunk, I'm doing something else). I know already he'll accuse me of being too rigid, lacking faith and love in him, etc. I suppose the worst that can happen there is that he'll call me on my statement - saying if I don't believe he can moderate I might as well leave. And then I would leave.

Why do I need to run one more trial period? Because I never said it so directly. Either he makes changes to help our relationship, or I leave him with his bottle. Perhaps if he finds he can't moderate, then he'll try being sober. But he says to me very clearly that sobriety is not something he is willing to take on in his life. Ever. For anyone. Why don't I want to listen to him?

sad_dog_mommy · Veteran Member

I think there are 2 kinds of Plan B.

One is where you outline what you are willing to accept and what you are not. You have to make sure that you are fair to yourself and what YOU need. It is not about what HE may or may not do; it is about how YOU will react and feel if he were to do the things that have put you in the frame of mind you are in now. This is where the idea of loving detachment comes into play. You are in the drivers seat of your life.

The other kind of Plan B is where you set aside money, make plans if you have to move quickly and if necessary; make arrangements for your children/pets. Gather a list of all the phone numbers you need (bank, doctor, credit cards) In this plan you decide if you will change your phone number and cut off all contact or just leave for a few days. You might even pack up a few things that are irreplaceable so that you know they are safe. It would be a plan for you to get out with all of your 'ducks in a row'. While it might seem dramatic, putting one together gave me peace of mind. I know that I will be OK if the time comes where I have to implement my plan.

Yes, people can change. But not until they are willing to do so. On their own and of their own accord. You know what I am taking about. The elusive 'rock bottom' that we keep hoping they have finally hit?

Al-anon teaches us how to help ourselves. We did not cause their disease, we cannot cure their disease and we cannot control their disease but in some ways we can contribute to it. The contribute part was hard for me but now I can admit that I am a world class enabler. I made my qualifier's life so easy he never hit bottom. And then I sat there wondering why he did not appreciate all MY efforts preventing him from hitting rock bottom! I was chasing my tail, constantly walking around on eggshells and doing whatever I could to keep the 'beast' quiet. When I say 'beast' I am referring to his disease. It was exhausting.

Please take time for yourself so that you can think clearly.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.