Helping the abuse victim that joins us... - Al-Anon Family Group

John · ~*Service Worker*~

Helping the abuse victim that joins us...

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi John, I think your right that these kind of tactics would not help anyone. I don't think anyone here would use these kind of tactics, like shame or guilt. I think some people here feel the pain of another a little too much and this can lead to strong replys that seem harsh but I think the comments come from a loving place that may be mixed with a bit of panic and fear for the person. I think this forum is a mix of different personalities but we should always talk Alanon, principles before personalities. Hopefully we can all help in our own way as long as we remember our program. Thanks John.x

rehprof · ~*Service Worker*~

I have a Ph.D. in Rehab, and STUDY this stuff...know all the supports, all the theory...

Yet I stayed through the abuse. For 28 years.

For me it was about the "devil I knew" -- and finances...but finally, he was no longer sober...I had to make him leave...and it was a dangerous time.

It's three years later...and it is only now I realize the depth of the illness...of my victimization...

For years EVERYONE told me to leave...and it just made me feel even more beaten down...like I was not only abused, but stupid too.

I think what is helpful is to share safety ideas for people...small things they can do to stay safe, no matter what their decisions...

Thank you for bringing this up John...reflecting on our responsibility as a community only makes us a better community.

best,

RP

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

So very well said John. Thank you for posting these thoughts.

I too believe that the MIP Family, like an Alanon Meeting, must be a safe place for anyone living with the dreadful disease of alcoholism.

Understanding,,Empathy, Compassion, Love, and HP are powerful tools that will help anyone living with this disease to regain their sense of self worth. With the return of "Self Esteem" the serenity, courage and wisdom of this program will seep in and they will learn how to navigate thru this overwhelmingly difficult disease.

I love that MIP offers each of us choices. If a member is not comfortable with responding to a member's post then they are free to not do so.

I love the quote from the Talmud THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

el-cee wrote:
Hi John, I think your right that these kind of tactics would not help anyone. I don't think anyone here would use these kind of tactics, like shame or guilt. I think some people here feel the pain of another a little too much and this can lead to strong replys that seem harsh but I think the comments come from a loving place that may be mixed with a bit of panic and fear for the person. I think this forum is a mix of different personalities but we should always talk Alanon, principles before personalities. Hopefully we can all help in our own way as long as we remember our program.
**********************************
THANK YOU, El-cee for reading , correctly, between the lines.....your post is spot on....thank you for seeing that mine and anothers posts were out of a loving place and just honest concern for the vulnerable......I need to detach, I said my feelings, yea, a bit strong, but they are said and were said out of truth...now it is time for me to work MY program and live and let live re: any others.....

Milehi-tlc · Member

Hi John
Thanks for posting this. My marriage of 30 years ended primarily because of verbal and emotional abuse. Drinking was the symptom and impetus for an abusive relationship. During the worst of it I honestly thought I was going insane.

I knew in my heart of hearts that it wasn't right but as others have mentioned, its part of the cycle to blame oneself and endure for years and years. People who know me well would be shocked to know what my marriage was like. I am not the profile of someone you would think would fall prey. I am a business woman, and I don't think I have low self-esteem. I respect myself and others and am willing to stand up for myself. I am not a doormat. And yet .........

In my case, no one could have told me to leave. That it was an abusive relationship. My eyes were finally opened when I recognized that my self esteem was suffering and the chaos was escalating. Finally, new threats of physical violence opened my eyes. I read numerous books and became aware. Still, I could not leave because of fear of the unknown and my own codependent behavior.

My marriage ended when I became healthier through Alanon and self education about abuse. My husband filed for the divorce when he realized he would no longer get the response he wanted from his abusive behavior. Thanks for bringing up such an important topic

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

I was able to put aside the physical abuse a long time ago. My SO had the sense enough to know I wouldn't put up with it and once in jail he knew better. Now the verbal and emotional abuse was a different story. But you know what? Over this last year that has even stopped because of Al-anon and what I have learn about my part in this relationship. It sometimes can be a two way street and I took responsibility of my part in it. I have tools that have help not only me but him with my actions to a situation. He thinks a whole lot more before he speaks and sees the change in me also. I have to admit things are better for us and we worked on it this weekend TOGETHER. There are many things we need to work on but with loving and kind respect for each other the problems can be worked out. If not I still have a choice for my life and what I want to do with it.

Choices are better made with respect and kindness.

Thank you John for MIP and thank you God for Al-anon

-- Edited by Cathyinaz on Monday 9th of December 2013 10:57:57 AM

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I lived in 3 abusive situations - home, marriage and then with my son. I could make moves only when I could make moves towards freedom. Nobody outside of me could decide the right time for me to make the move. I had to do that for myself. What would have been helpful to me would have been the knowledge that there was freedom on the other side of the abuse told me by a woman who had been in my situation. There were no women in my life who had been abused or would talk about being abused. There were no models for me to listen to and learn from. As PC has stated awhile ago, domestic violence is a separate issue from alcoholism. Although Al-Anon helped me grow in knowledge and understanding of the disease of addiction and alcoholism, it did not help me make the move I needed to make when I needed to make it. I removed myself from the violence prior to entry in the program because I saw a way to do it. That way didn't appear until it was time. As a survivor of multiple forms of abuse, the greatest asset I had was the knowledge that a power greater than myself cared about me and about my kids and didn't want me to stay trapped. And, it took me several years until that understanding of a HP's care for me because the culture outside of me did not support women standing up for themselves, divorcing themselves from the violence, or raising children alone. My experience in all three situations of abuse did not include people who had been there and gone through it. In all three cases, I was alone in my decision making and my HP helped me through it. There were no persons in my life who wanted to hear about the abuse, cared about the fact I was being abused, or did much but blame me for it. As a survivor of abuse, I know just how delicate a balance one has to strike to survive and to walk into freedom. I also know that there is an inner knowing that leads us out when its time. I wasn't in denial of the abuse. I was confused by the culture's messages to me as a woman living in a toxic situation. Leaving was no picnic either. The lack of support that existed for me as a woman being abused also existed for me as a woman who had left it. Al-Anon does need to be a safe place for people being abused. It also needs to be a place that recognizes that support for somebody living in an abusive situation needs to include a respect for the position that woman is in and a respect for her responsibility to make changes that are within her power to make at the time. Only she knows what she is facing. Nobody else does because no one else is in the situation but her. If we've been abused, sharing our experience, strength and hope in our own circumstances may be the best help we can give anybody living in a situation that is beyond difficult.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Neshema Im actually referring to myself. I have from time to time felt a little too much and wanted to just say it but I've been abused myself in the past and I know that I wouldn't listen to people until I was ready. I like John's advice and I think he's right. Principles over personality is my guide right now.x

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

I was a victim of neglect. it appears sometimes to be the lesser of three- sexual or violent abuse being much worse. Abuse and neglect drags people down, and far down. And far away sometimes. Going through the middle steps- people in the rooms are all going through severe suffering. This is both a terrible experience... ... but it also brings hope. It gives a sense of connection. That bond- sense of connection is a real life-line. aww David.

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

"Simply loved until they develop the ability to love themselves enough to take corrective actions" I like this, that someone can come here in pain (like I did) be allowed to get it out in whatever way they can (like I did), read how other people have made it through the rain and survived (like I did), experience acceptance, gain strength through others esh and eventually be able to pass it on to help others. We come in carrying enough of our own shame and guilt, what we need are answers and we find them here.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

I do get triggered when a child is in an unhealthy environment....I do bc I was there, suffered it and am in recovery bc of it......

I asked my favorite A brother "why do you drink??? YOU were treated good by these people????" and his answer was a doozey....he said "I drink bc I watched you get beaten down as a human being and I could not help you or stop it and also our mother, drinking herself to death bc the suffering she experienced at his hands was too much for her."

He was just a little boy...of course he could not "take on" the monster who was destroying me....this conversation was only a couple of months ago, so i am helping him release the guilt he feels, that little boy within him, blaming himself because he was too little to help his beloved "sissy"...

His bedroom was across from mine.....His nights were of terror and utter helplessness b/c he knew "bad things" were happening to me and he could not fight the offender off me....

I wasn't going to post this...I don't see it helping anything, but I guess i am writing this #1 to journal it out of ME and #2 in the hopes that my brothers angels read this and hold him tightly in their arms.......that little boy saw his mother get clobbered and saw his beloved sister get attacked, and to numb his pain, he began at 14 to drink and smoke pot, now he is an alcoholic.....I hope one day he can forgive that sweet little boy who was just too little to save his "sissy"......

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

neshema2 wrote:
I wasn't going to post this...
~ I discovered this topic, Nesh, when I opened the board this morning... swallowed a bit of air, and decided that this is not my issue, but it has become a group issue.
In a face to face group this might be a group issue- because sharing time is limited. But there is no limit here... ...some members might feel that there are boundary issues... and yes, for sure, they have a right to express this.
I have been in Alanon for 31 years- nothing I hear would shock or surprise me. It 'comes with the territory'. If it is going to give someone a bit of serenity then I am all for it. For me this share is right on topic. It helps me to understand the family dynamics in my world.
I think testing the forum boundaries is a good thing. I try to do it gently... and like you Rose I am an established member... other members can make informed judgements about this.
David.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Remember when we love a addict their disease will pull us down too. We may get so sick we don't believe anymore that we have any choices.

People stay becuz of so many reasons, they lose their home, their kids, their animals.

Or many who have abusive spouses lose all their supports so have no where to go. most are very sick themselves.

It is hard for anyone to walk away from something that is familiar. Just like horses who will run back into a burning building.

Many KNOW if they leave the abuser will find them and kill them, and or they families. Some believe and it may be true, they had no other way out.

Some people are just not strong enough. Some are very gentle people who don't think or feel that self survival thing and always depend on others!

I understand now after being thru it, and being here on MIP for so many years and seeing it, and being shared to.

thank you for your wonderful share! always,debilyn

ClearTheFog · Senior Member

Promotion by attraction!

After messing up a few times and alienating people by attempting to tell them what to do, I can see that approach doesn't work. I have started checking my EGO at the door whenever I feel an urgent twitch in my fingertips to hammer out some kind of adrenaline-fueled reply to someone. The tip-off to me is always the adrenaline rush. If I absolutely cannot wait to tell someone my opinion about their life, that's the sign to back off and not reply yet. The bigger the adrenaline rush, the higher percentage it is my EGO taking over, and less percentage of it is loving. Wait a few hours. Think about my reply. What good is it really going to do them for me to send them a great big wall of text, that by its lecturing, highlights how ignorant they must be not to have thought of that, themselves?

There is something to that whole thing of 'allowing them the dignity to make their own mistakes/decisions'.

Oh and plus...I'm not their HP.

I agree it is tricky when kids are involved, but we can't very well call CPS on them unless we live right close by, right? But that doesn't mean the only other alternative is a wall of ego-text or playing HP.

(Drawing off of my experiences recently in yelling via email to my sister overseas that she should eat something)

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

And to add a little to CTF's share: CPS has dysfunctions of its own as does the foster care system. We simply can't protect kids at all times from all things much as we would like to do that. Does that mean I'd keep quiet if a child was being physically harmed or molested and I knew it? No! But, I'd also seek the wisdom of my HP first in various situations because I really don't know the best way to proceed without the guidance of wisdom greater than mine. I have known children damaged by judges poor choices and parents' scared and maligned by overzealous, overworked CPS workers who were acting on knee jerk rather than in response to. The legal system is not the end all to people's issues nor are state agencies. There are sick people in those agencies just as much as their are sick people outside those agencies. I was reported once to CPS by a sitter I fired. She called to say that I was neglecting my children by leaving them home alone when I went to work. Fortunately, CPS called my home (strange) and my new sitter answered the phone. Had she chosen to show up at my door in a State marked vehicle, it could have put both me and my kids in a horrible position. CPS workers also have to deal with people who file reports to get even with somebody or to try to force them to do what they think a person should do in cases wherein there isn't abuse or neglect - just a nosy neighbor or relation who thinks they know "the way" to raise kids and believe everybody else should do it, too.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.