The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I live in NYC where there are many alanon meetings. I cannot speak for AA but in alanon all are welcome.
There is a reading in the C2C that reminds us that we cannot turn anyone away If a member feels as if they belong ---They belong The reason for that is that in families DENIAL of alcoholism goes on and on from generation to generation . Many my not even be aware of its existence.
Page 358 states a quote from alanon 12 and 12
" One of the signs I might have been affected by alcoholism is I think I know what everyone else should do.
As alanon 12 and 12 explains Tradition 3 speaks directly to us who mistakenly feel a new comer should be rejected when actually, he or she does meet the condition of membership."
Each must decide for themselves if they meet the requirements."
Page 331 also speaks to this subject.
In your situation, I do believe that the members could extend the meeting to include the other families without breaking the Traditions
Good Luck
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-- Edited by hotrod on Monday 25th of November 2013 09:38:17 PM
... how much tolerance does this forum have for family members of other addictions- ? that is apart from alcohol addiction.
I know we family members tip-toe around some topics- it is what we are used to back in the day!
we are in the USA in 2011 [and plan to be back next year....]. I did not get to Alanon meeting but went to two open AA meetings.
The New York one was straight up traditional AA... then I went to one on California, north of SF. The speakers there had anything but alcohol in their old world... it wasn't double addicted, but it seemed to be multiple addicted-
-neither meeting seemed to have any link to a family programme.
We are having this discussion with our local chapter on Alanon. The nearest Naranon is in Sydney, which is another country-
should we let the family members of drug addiction into our group?
my own nephew in our town died of a drug overdose. And of course I do have other qualifiers...
David, I live in a small community. In my alanon group there are people dealing with adult children on drugs, spouses with eating disorders, sex addiction .. we run the gammit. There are some AA meetings that welcome anyone with an addiction. There are tremendous crossover addictions. Most recovering alcoholics are understanding of that issue. The NA meetings are less popular than AA I don't know why. Of course it's going to depend on the meeting, there are meetings I choose not to attend because I know what I have to say isn't going to be well received. As far as alanon the meetings I attend welcome any families who has a loved one struggling with any kind of addiction. The situations may differ the core feelings are the same. Hopelessness, helplessness, codependency, self esteem and so on. Hugs s :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
In our groups we have several members who have drug addicted loved ones in their lives , if we focus on ourselves it is not a problem . Just my opinion If a member continually refers to drug abuse someone will take them aside and remind them that we do not talk about the alcoholic or addict in our meetings we talk about solutions for ourselves in dealing with someone elses disease. I was at a meeting yrs ago when a young woman came in totally whacked and shared that her husb was an addict , one member stood up and said we are here for alcoholism period , the young lady left crying , I went out to the parking lot to try and find her but she had already gone , I was mortified that someone would say something like that to a person who was obviously in pain and I vowed I would never do that to anyone . If Naranon is not available in their area , we are the only source of support , because drugs are against the law my only concern is that the person may not be getting the support they need , as there is always the fear of drug dealers etc . Louise
I haven't met anyone in any of my Al-Anon groups that don't qualify for membership. All they have to have is a friend or relative with the disease and there hasn't ever been anybody at our tables or in our rooms who don't have a friend or relative as their qualifier. We're there to keep the focus on ourselves and not on our friends or relatives, so we haven't had a problem unless a member wants to bring in an outside resource to include another 12 step group or doesn't want to pursue recovery for themselves. Thanks for the question, David.
so few people have access to more "formal' supports because of finances, lack of insurance, etc. and, frankly, those supports may not be as helpful to them as the supportive community of alanon. I happen to think addiction is addiction...and we have more in common than we have differences in terms of the behaviors we have to live with....and honestly, I have to wonder why people get chased off -- I always understood it like Betty described...if you find the meetings helpful..you belong. Why do people feel so strongly about "alcohol addiction only?" -- my heart aches for the woman who you described abbyal.....a travesty, IMO, to turn away someone in pain...
My ex was addicted to alcohol and drugs. I always went to Alanon because I felt, even with the crossover, that the message was still the same. Or at least damn close enough! If there are no other resources in the area I think it would be wonderful for your group to be accepting of anyone touched by addiction - not just alcohol. I know I needed those people and those rooms and those messages no matter what my exAH was using.
Thanks y'all for your support- I had a phone enquiry last week from someone who had a gambler in the family. I referred her on very reluctantly becaue at this time I know the group as a whole would not wear it. I have a brother and a sister who are gambling addicts, and bought their own families down through this, along with the wider family.
Very sadly I pulled away from a step one, just from me because of the gender thing. The phone call came at nine at night.
I asked the question here, because in my family home opinions weren't listened to, or honoured when they were...
My AF taught me right from wrong- that is he was right and I was wrong. My mum was one who felt- if you caint beat em, join em.
I am still waiting for that second glass of raspberry- offered through the window of the car. Shared carefully between five kids- so many sips each...
...sometimes we have to make a tough call- so great that we do no longer have to do this alone...
Hi David, Ive been giving your question some thought. My group don't accept any other addictions, they direct people to Naranon. I havent been a member long enough to actually know if this is right or wrong. I can see the relationship between alcohol and drugs and I have also heard AA members talk about drugs being a secondary addiction but alcohol is the main addiction. My group is made up of old timers so I am not sure whether they have not adjusted to the times we now live in regarding addictions but I was told that it comes from the traditions and principles. Someone did tell me that the UK is a bit stricter in terms of following the traditions but I haven't ever been to a meeting where there are people dealing with other addictions and I have only ever heard shares about alcohol. So, I couldn't give a balanced answer. I do know this forum works well with both drugs and alcohol and personally I think the journey we go on is very similar. I hope this helps.x
I have never lived directly with active alcoholism...but my life has most certainly been affected by it.
The nearest it ever came to me in my own family tree was in my grandparents' generation. My grandparents themselves were not alcoholic, but some of their siblings were. Likewise, my ex-wife grew up with active alcoholism, and although I never met her father (he died before we were married), my life was most certainly affected by his drinking through her raging and abusive behavior.
There is a well known "laundry list" of the characteristics of an adult child of an alcoholic. I personally can tick off nearly every checkbox on that list, although as mentioned above, neither my parents nor my grandparents were alcoholic. I need no further proof that it is called a "family disease" for a reason - it crosses generations and family lines, so that my life has been affected by the disease that was expressed in people I never even met. In fact, it is my personal belief that dysfunction is the real family disease, and that alcoholism and other addictions of compulsion are merely symptoms of the underlying disease. Agree or disagree (take what you like and leave the rest), the fact remains that this family disease, however we view it, is indeed cunning, baffling, and powerful, to the extent that only a Power greater than myself could ever help me through it.
Many people enter the rooms of Al-Anon at the end of their rope, having tried to force solutions to the active alcoholism with which they have been living. I personally entered the rooms because I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, and realizing that if I kept doing what I kept doing, I'd keep getting what I was getting in my relationships, and that I would not learn a better way alone. I am so very grateful for this program and the changes it is bringing to my life. My home Step study group is an eclectic mix of adult children, double winners, parents of addicts of all types, and yes, even spouses of alcoholics.
I am appalled that someone who was hurting and in need of what Al-Anon has to offer was "run off" from a meeting. I would say that that group needs to perform a group inventory (but then I'd be taking their inventory, lol). In any case, Al-Anon already has an unfair reputation as a "wives of alcoholic men club," which can be an impediment to outreach and attraction as spoken of in the Traditions. Personally, I want other hurting people to find the serenity and relationship with a Higher Power that I was able to find in the rooms.
"The only requirement for membership is that there be a problem of alcoholism in a relative or friend." One does not have to look too far to find a qualifier...even one they never met.
1911A1 That was amAZIng and THANK YOU so much for being a person who can SHINE in the example of true understanding for what's going on in our world.
This isn't just about addiction and alcoholism... in fact... some times I wonder - when we look back on this in a thousand years, will people laugh at how silly we were for hiding from the world? Will this hiding in 'dark rooms' separated from each other in our not-at-all different pains and fears underneath all the different manifestations of shame and fear... actually be a hindrance to the growth that all of humanity is riddled with and deserves to heal from?
At some point - hopefully - we will heal as a world, not just as a segregated bunch of people who end up with the really bad symptoms that allow us to find the 12 step program. Why can't these things be taught in schools and on TV and in parenting books? I imagine a future where our principles and will be common knowledge. The majority will be 'on the inside' instead of the outside. Silly that we have to fix the problem AFTER the fact - instead of being more open and proactive from the start of a precious life.
Maybe I'm off base here, but this is a program for living. That means since my entire human family is living today - we should all be included. We talk so much about our specific 'problems' and 'symptoms' and that is great for identifying with other people - but at some point hopefully (I'm sure not in my lifetime) people will identify with the root causes of ALL the symptoms out there - over eating, drinking, smoking, sex addiction, relationship addition, control issues etc etc. We will be able to openly talk about our hurting heart, our fears, our shame, our broken down soul... and all identify as the equals we are, in this life together - as a united front to a better life and a better world.
I have spoken to many people who live with computer-game addicts, who have been "laughed out of" alanon/naranon meetings. It's sad. When you see someone playing 18+ hours per day, peeing in empty cans and sleeping in their own filth, letting their jobs, health and relationships go; neglecting their children to the point of death in some cases, it's clear that it's an addiction like any other and families go through the same range of emotions and issues yet I spoke to one woman was told "come back when your husband has a REAL addiction".
Of course it's up to the group and I understand that people aren't comfortable with a 'come one come all" sort of approach but the contempt and ridicule I have heard described is really sad.
Those people will most likely never reach out for group support again.
The problem, in my estimation, is not the drug of choice. Bill W had a ton of isms if you read his history. He could at least function in life with the 12 steps and with the isms that never went away. If Lois had chosen to ignore the help offered her with the 12 steps because he not only drank, he did other things that were compulsive, there wouldn't be an Al-Anon group for us to attend. If the 12 steps help a suffering codependent, I'm for letting it be. Refusing to deny them space at a recovery table because they don't first present with a problem drinker in their lives is allowing someone the dignity to make their own choice and decide whether or not Alanon is right for them. Deciding whether or not to let somebody join our group because they don't first come with alcoholism on their mind feels like playing god to me. We attend Alanon and stay in it because WE are having a problem coping with a disease that is killing them and in many cases, killing us. I couldn't in good conscience tell somebody they "don't belong." That's not my job. It's theirs.
Remember we are all trying to recover from the affects of this horrid disease. I believe the problem begins in the interpretation of the Traditions.
Tradition 10 states" Alanon has no opinion on outside issues hence our name cannot be drawn into public controversially. For some " Other addictions "are considered outside issues.
Tradition 3 states the only requirement for membership is that alcoholism is in a relative or friend.
One of the many isms I exhibit is that that I like rules and definite guidelines in order to feel safe. The traditions provide this for myself and the groups.
The Courage to Change provides insight into the Traditions but many go by the letter of the law and insist that the Group must abide by the traditions in order to survive .
The Courage to Change provides insight into the Traditions but many go by the letter of the law and insist that the Group must abide by the traditions in order to survive .
Yes... thanks Betty...
there was a back story to my raising this issue. Last week i raised an issue about someone talking about a book which was not CAL. Tried to raise the issue gently...
.... and this week I raised this issue, to test the water... ...as i would... and the responses are warm... some are varied... but they are all valued.
In my world groups are tiny- sometime with only 2 or three members. Struggling. Sometimes i wonder about Alanon as a whole- about whether it will survive.
I have to be careful here because this might be about MY family. And the old fears surfacing...
...when I started with Alanon drug use was just surfacing- and all over the drug of choice was always alcohol. Drug use was always illegal which pushed it into a different framework.
Some drinkers were really scathing about drug users- as if druggies were really very very different.
There is no way the family of drug users could start Naronon, since we are already struggling with Alanon. And as we often say as people begin to open up and share their ESH most will identify drinking in the framework of their family. The disease is cunning and baffling
I want Alanon to stand by its basic principles. I want to see groups which sort out their issues and affairs with love and compassion.
As an extra, I said recently that I had reduced the likelihood of the disease hitting our children and grand-kids. This conversation happened here in NZ. I was questioned on this- I did not say 'cure' or 'eliminate'. I can compare our own family along with my brothers, sister and cousins... and I can see a difference.
My intention came to be that I needed a break! Of course. But it has rubbed off onto those I am responsible for...
... how much tolerance does this forum have for family members of other addictions- ? that is apart from alcohol addiction.
1911A1 That was amAZIng and THANK YOU so much for being a person who can SHINE in the example of true understanding for what's going on in our world.