Is Sarcasm Really a Shortcoming? - Al-Anon Family Group

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Is Sarcasm Really a Shortcoming?

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

I am sarcastic....I have a sometimes sardonic sense of humour...i guess w/all my pain and hardship, i had to "make fun" of life or be defeated by it

and i am sarcastic to others, but now, with recovery I am selective and careful not to harm one i care about...

now i still have the "back at ya" thingy where if a person takes a "jab" at me, they do so at their own peril, only now i am not loud, angry, out of control, its more of a controlled...better "return jab"

i wont' stay in this, however, and if i see the relationship is "too much" of this, I am gone.....

sarcasm is negative only if the sender means to harm, hurt, belittle, demean, dismiss another..

it is not negative if motives are just to make folks laugh and NOT at anothers expense

it boils down to motive to me.....and who/what it is directed at.....

not bragging but i am real good at sarcasm and also trading "barbs" so i detach from folks who bring this out in me....it just isn't good for my karma, and i do confess it feels good , still, to "let someone have it" in a cool, quiet, soft spoken, normal voice if they deserve it.....

now, its more fun to kill an adversary w/kindness and politness.....they have NO recourse....NO defense against it......that is what i did to the former "butt rash" at work.....

it is the motive of the sender that depends on how i respond......i can be very nice, trading fun stuff w/folks who mean no harm to me......people who know me know that my tongue can be as sharp as a well oiled , new bic razor blade.........I call it a telent b/c it takes a fast thinker and a sharp whit , one thing the offender had, but HE used it to squash.....I use it in fun, however, if i am attacked, i can be as effective as he was.....

i really want to live and let live....peace and goodwill, but people know not to start anything w/me bc I will finish it.....

i dont' call sarcasm a defect.....UNLESS one uses it to control or hurt or do damage of sorts to another.....then its time for steps 4,5,6,7,8,9

I notice that i must be "growing up" however, bc my former sister got en email thrugh to me, with some sarcasm and i did not respond....i thought how "amateur" her attempts were in her efforts to put me down....the best punishment for her is to shun, ignore, she does not exist.....i hear she is very frustrated in that i will not respond to her in any way, shape for form......

i would rather be sarcastic and funny in a nice, positive way, however i don't think my "talents" have been dimmed as i recover....I just dont' attract those kind of people who would bring out the worst in me......if i see myself resorting that kind of behaviour, i examine what triggered me, work on it, but also re-eval the relationship that wold bring out the dark side of me.....

-- Edited by neshema2 on Sunday 17th of November 2013 06:47:08 PM

Green Eyes · ~*Service Worker*~

So I was talking to one of my long-timer Al-Anon friends yesterday and she informed me that I use sarcasm too much and that it's really a defense mechanism that many of us in Al-Anon use due to being around the alcoholics in our lives. She suggested that I look up the word, "sarcasm," in the Al-Anon daily readers and to be more conscious of my using sarcasm - that it might be my, "ism."

I was really taken aback by this. I can sometimes be a sarcastic person, but usually I use it when referring to myself in a humorous way. Since my qualifiers are no longer currently in my life, I don't use it with them, although I can remember when I sometimes would. I looked up "sarcasm" in both ODAT and C2C. Both mention that sarcasm comes from the Greek word, to "tear the flesh." Ouch!

When I started thinking about it, all of my siblings, and my mom all are, at times, very sarcastic, but I love that about our family. We went back and forth with sarcastic texts yesterday when I shared with them that I was told that I use sarcasm as a defense mechanism. And when I asked some of my friends about this, they told me that that's one of things they love about me.

I've come to two conclusions about this:

I can take what I like, and leave the rest- I don't have to agree with what this person said. And, "What other people think about me is really none of my business." She can have an opinion about me, but I don't have to react to it or agree with it.

Do you tend to be sarcastic and can sarcasm be seen okay when not used in a hurtful or defensive way? Is this one of our "wrongs" that we who live, or have lived, around alcoholism are guilty of? Is it your "ism," or should I say, "asm?"

Your insight on this would be much appreciated.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I like this Green eyes, I can be very sarcastic, in fact I was quite proud of how quick I could be with sarcastic comments. I thought I was funny.I think I did use it as a defense mechanism to protect myself from being put down and as a way to keep people away. 'To tear flesh' is such a powerful metaphor and today I try not to be sarcastic and when working my program well I am not sarcastic but if I let it go its one of the first shortcomings that comes back. I think sarcasm is usually a put down even when used in a jokey way. In Scotland we call making fun of each other as banter. I think you and your family may have good banter but I am unsure if it is harmful even in that setting. Thought provoking stuff. Thanks for sharing.x

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

It's hard to distinguish between fun jokiness and stinging jokiness without examples. So of course it will be hard for us to provide ESH that might be truly relevant.

I had someone once tell me something similar. She said I was harsh in my joking about myself and my job. I would say maybe something like, "I worked all day and then what did I do? Did I take it to the department head's desk? No! That would have been too smart! That couldn't happen! I left it on my desk and I completely forgot to turn it in! Is my head screwed on? Do I have my brain in place? Am I a total imbecile? What is my problem!"

I thought it was just funny (I hope) self-deprecating humor and venting. My friend said that it couldn't help but make her think, "If she's so harsh to herself, what does she think about me when I screw up? How does she talk about my mistakes to other people?"

I hadn't thought of it like that. I definitely didn't want to make her uncomfortable, even by accident. So I've tried to keep it briefer and light-hearted.

I don't know your situation, of course. I know I've done socially awkward things at many times in my life -- I can guess because people don't always have the reaction I want! But it's really rare that someone is honest and straightforward about what blunder I made. Usually I'm just casting around in the dark guessing, which gives you a kind of paranoid feeling -- "I suspect I'm doing something wrong -- is it this? Or that? Or maybe I'm too much this way? Or maybe that other thing? Or maybe all of them!" Anyway, in a painful way I find it a kind of relief when someone gives me feedback -- I can think, "Oh, is that all it is! Okay, useful to know! Okay, I'll temper that a bit." It sounds as if you're seriously examining whether/how much this might apply and that is all we could ask of anyone. It takes courage and lack of arrogance. Whether your sarcasm is cutting or winning and funny (or maybe both at the same time), a willingness to think about the impact of your actions is so admirable. (If we're back to the subject of A's, that's the one thing we most wish for them, isn't it?) So you are a model for all of us.

oldergal · Senior Member

Is it sarcasm (hurtful), bander (playfull), or is it wittyness that is to the point with humor, but some people are not ready to hear.

Is this person trying to be helpful to you or is she being sarcastic!!!

Is there someone in her life that uses sarcasm and she is very familiar with it, or is she taking your inventory?

I have a friend who uses sarcasm all the time, but directs it to herself and turns out to be pretty humorous.

It doesnt matter what this person thinks of you, but I know one thing you are not so "stuck" that you ignored it, you are questioning yourself and asking others that is a good thing you know you can always use some improvement if appropriate. in support og

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

When I find myself saying something sarcastic to someone it is usually a clue that I am angry or am feeling the need to be self protective. Sometimes the sarcasm without it being directed at someone is funny to me....I will watch even more closely to see when it shows up....the tearing of the flesh is an "ouch".

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

I believe that the ODAT and the C2C are both correct and that a Sarcasm is definitely a "Tearing of the flesh. In my FOO, Sarcasm was a prized form of communication and I honed that survival weapon to a master tool.

I thought I was extremely cleaver and funny others did not . I did have someone tell me that" I loved to rub salt into the wounds". That brought me up short and I remembered but did not stop

When I worked my 4th through 7th Step i finally accepted that sarcasm was an unacceptable form of communication and I asked HP to lift it. It has been lifted and replaced with a true sense of humor that is filled with kindness,compassion and empathy . I no longer need to feel cleaver or get attention in a negative manner

Jill · ~*Service Worker*~

In my un-knowingness, I was sarcastic too. It saddens me, that earlier self. I see the sarcastic me as disrespectful. Now if I think I need to address my own or someone else's attributes, I ask for the humility to Live and Let Live. That has lightened me so much. I also have deliberately injected respect into my thoughts, and that has cancelled so many zinger-opportunities. Ouch. I used to think of them as opportunities to be clever. The steps are priceless.

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

When I looked at my use of sarcasm, and when I use it today, I have a feeling in the back of my mind that the person that the sarcasm is directed toward is stupid. That is just me. It was my way of defending myself...by subconsciously calling someone else stupid in the way that I worded my conversation. With some best friends that you have known forever you can talk to like this without having them get hurt feelings. I was on a cruise with my hubby's sponsor and his wife and he used sarcasm with his wife so much that I had to ask him to stop. I couldn't take his putting his wife down constantly. I didn't want to hear any more of it. I hope I said it in a really, really nice way, but we are still friends. We are going on a cruise with them in a couple of weeks so I will see if it happens again.

Tasha · Senior Member

Be kind... you're listening to you.

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

I have read on this before and also have been told I am dry, witty and sarcastic and some of my friends love it about me and one does not. I curb it around my friend that takes it personally and a few of my friends of mine zing each other and we laugh all day, because we are not taking it personally and have talked it out and we are never underhanded or brutal with our zingers, but we do really crack each other up. We are kind to each other and I do sometimes wonder if it isn't sarcasm just dry witty humor, but either way I think if you talk it out with your friends and are respectful towards them and aren't putting them down to build yourself up and you are on the same page, to each their own. I am never trying to tear anyones flesh with my words and trust me I can have verbal venom as a defense mechanism. It took me a very long time to learn to say what I mean, mean what I say and not say it mean, but I love the new straightforward me that can say things that I feel needs to be said and maybe I now can be blunt, but anyone that knows me, knows I am never trying to cut anyone down. I care for my friends and am a good friend. Great post, sending you love and support on your journey!

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

I can see how certain kinds of sarcasm can be like tearing of flesh, my ex's mean comments that he claimed were just jokes, hurt. I don't use it towards anyone I don't know or I know can't take it. I think it can also be used to tear a wall down, let people know you have a sense of humor and don't take yourself or life too seriously. Being able to accept sarcasm is like opening up your own flesh to the barbs of others if you deem them able to handle you with care and you trust them NOT to abuse your trust. I enjoy sarcastic banter with those who are, like me, just having fun doing it with no harm meant, and I won't do it with someone I think is using it to hurt me. I am often sarcastic, mostly involving myself, to make others laugh with me - somewhere along my journey of life I found it much more preferable to get people to laugh with me rather than thinking they were laughing at me. Most of the successful friend relationships I have are with people who can take it and dish it out - these are people I really enjoy running into to share a laugh, and, people I would trust MORE in a crisis because they've gained my trust. As I write this the thought occurs to me that maybe I trust them because I open myself to them and they don't take advantage of my vulnerability. I have been subjected to caustic sarcasm and I don't want those types of people in my life - maybe sarcasm can be classified as mean sarcasm, friendly sarcasm, silly, gentle, etc.

Melly1248 · ~*Service Worker*~

Wow, never really thought about this as a short-coming?
My siblings and I all communicate almost entirely through sarcasm and teasing but I consider us very close... and it is only ever done with the intent of making the other person laugh... I don't speak to anyone else like that because we don't share that closeness and understanding but as long as it is understood amongst family or friends, I don't see a problem? I can say with complete sincerity that I have no problem speaking to any of my siblings on any topic and always feel loved and validated; their sarcasm doesn't hurt; it makes me giggle and feel happy that we have our own little "family language" I guess?

-- Edited by Melly1248 on Monday 18th of November 2013 08:54:05 AM

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I have to say that I don't like sarcasm - even with folks I'm close to - because I tend to take people seriously and don't know if they're meaning what they're saying or if they truly are just trying to be funny. It (sarcasm unless used about an issue outside a relationship) to me is unsettling for that reason. I don't like to use it for that reason. too. I want folks to know where they truly stand with me. I want to know where people truly stand in relationship to me. There are folks who use sarcasm in relationship to me and I have asked if they mean what they say. "Can't you take a joke! Geez!!!!" is their response to which I usually say, "No. Not that kind of joke." The eye rolling on their part when I say what is true for me usually reveals that their sarcasm was intended to wound me. That's why I don't like it. I'd rather somebody just say what's on their mind like "It is irritating to me when you are so serious," rather than using sarcasm that puts a wall between us.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 18th of November 2013 09:26:57 AM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 18th of November 2013 09:32:08 AM

tiredtonite · Veteran Member

It was one of my shortcomings when I used it as a weapon and took a premeditated jab at someone to retaliate and be malicious. This came from pent up resentment and no alanon at the time. my motive was to be mean and when I was successful, I was happy. But of course the satisfaction didn't last long because inwardly I really felt stuck and miserable. I acquired where I grew up which was a place where people tended to enjoy this kind of ribbing with one another as a way of testing one another. But really you needed to be a little tough to survive in the old neighborhood and in our families and that kind of one upping was just one way we learned to thickin up a thin skin. Thankfully, it's not part of who I am today.

I can have the playful kind of bantering that you described with your family with my closest friends. There is a trust between us and we feel safe with one another. Our motive is nothing more than sillyness. We're adults who are good with who we are today. My sponsor and I joke this way and my bf and I too.

So I guess the answer for me concerning whether it's a shortcoming would be .... it is when I misuse it; when I use it with intent to hurt another person. I think it's ok when it's keep between people I'm closest to who understand it to be just poking fun and part of our humor and love for each other.

Thanks for sharing. It's an interesting topic. TT

slogan_jim · Senior Member

For me, sarcasm was a way to hide pain. I always thought I was just 'a funny guy'. I still am but I don't need to put anyone down to make myself feel good. Sarcasm was a mask.

Eventually it got so bad for me that one day I was at a party. Someone had commented on a time their wife got upset in public and the entire room of about 12 people stopped and looked at me with smirks almost as though they were expecting me to say something condescending and derogatory. I said nothing and the moment passed but that moment I decided I was not going to be 'that guy'. The angry, bitter, approval seeker looking for laughs by putting people down.

I no longer associate with them as I can't be me around people that encourage me to be something I am not.

Green Eyes · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks for all of your ESH regarding this topic. It's very interesting to hear all of the different opinions. I followed up this past weekend with a phone call to my Al-Anon friend. I shared with her that I understand that in certain relationships or situations, sarcasm can be hurtful or not funny. I like to use "dry witty humor" or banter with people I know well and trust, and whom I know will receive it in a humorous, not negative, way. She responded well to my share with her and told me that she was glad to hear that I had done a personal inventory on this topic so that I could come to a conclusion that made me more aware of how I might not want to use sarcasm with everyone and to be sensitive to those (like her) who might not respond positively to it.

Take what you like and leave the rest

GE

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