"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"

slogan_jim · Senior Member

Is the serenity prayer over-rated?

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi, SJ. No, I don't think we should be holding hands reciting the Serenity Prayer and singing Kumbaya no matter what. I also think that anger is a healthy indication that we are alive and something is out of balance for us. Since you shouted "who cares if you come home?" which is a little different than what I read that you had done in relationship to your Dad's demands this week, I guess that if your sponsor sees a need for you to let go of the anger and forgive your dad, maybe this is your HP's guidance for you? Although my sponsor has never told me what I should do or not do, she has made suggestions when I've asked or told stories that helped me hear the wisdom I needed to hear. I was always free to take what I liked and leave the rest. There have been times when I have hung on to negative feelings and thoughts longer than helpful to me. She helped me hear what I needed to hear although I didn't always like what I heard.

It is one thing to feel angry and say "no" to a plan that is not in your best interest in relationship to your Dad. It is another to say that no with a shouted "who cares if you come home?" We can say "no" without being disrespectful, discourteous or nasty even if we do feel angry or sense somebody is trying to manipulate us, use us or abuse themselves or us in some way. If we are disrespectful, discourteous or nasty because we feel angry - we can try to justify that behavior but honesty will reveal that we're using another person to justify our own inappropriate behavior - the very same thing we often say about the As in our lives who want a drink and justify that drinking by blaming us.

Although you've already acted out your anger in this way, its done. And I agree with your sponsor that there are other ways to say what we mean, mean what we say without saying it mean. Until I could accept that my husband and my son truly were affected by a disease, my anger - especially towards my husband - carried a lot of self-righteousness within it. I saw myself as being superior to him and sometimes treated him that way. Just made my life more difficult because underneath all that self-righteous anger was a person who really didn't like herself much when she acted out in those ways. Sunk me deeper into guilt and shame. I'm not saying this is true for you. It was true for me.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 18th of October 2013 06:11:52 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 18th of October 2013 06:13:30 PM

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Jim ,

I must agree with Tom NO the serenity prayer is not over rated. I think just reciting the WORDS without meaning them, is a waste .Whenever I truly want my own peace, and freedom from the destructive pull of anger and resentment, the Serenity Prayer never fails.

My sponsor has always stressed feeling my feelings, expressing them in a constructive manner and then releasing the pent up anger by asking HP to lift the anger.

We have all exploded at this disease and the "isms" that consume the alcoholic. Learning how to detach from that madness and respond in a healthy constructive manner is a true gift of this program . It is not necessary to scream and shout to say what I mean , mean what I say without saying it mean.

-- Edited by hotrod on Friday 18th of October 2013 11:04:16 PM

DavidG · ~*Service Worker*~

aww I'm listening... yes... aww

canadianguy · ~*Service Worker*~

Trying desperately not to judge here, but I am struggling with your sponsor telling/suggesting what you "should" do or how you "should" feel.

I had an amazing sponsor, who encouraged me to:

check my motives (always);

focus on the whats and not the whys (the whys eat us up inside - we need to ask ourselves the question "if I knew the answer to the question that I am stressing about, would it REALLY change anything"?)

be the person I wanted myself to be, and act in a way that I could proudly look at myself in the mirror.

Continuing to punish your father over past transgressions is probably unhealthy in the long run, but perhaps that is what you need to do, just for today, in order to get yourself into a healthier place.

But I digress....

Your post started with "is the serenity prayer overrated?", to which I would humbly suggest "no, if anything it is underrated". Wiser words have seldom been uttered.

Just my two cents

Tom

slogan_jim · Senior Member

Tom,

it's not about punishing him, but about him taking responsibility for his actions, finally. HE got his second dui, meaning he didn't learn from the first. He expects everyone to drop their lives in order to cater to HIS because afterall 'they did this to me'. Me, my sister, my aunts, we've all had enough of him.

Your profile says you live in campbell river bc. It would be like you driving to qualicum beach and back every Friday after work for a month and then again on Sunday. Imagine that with Toronto traffic. You'd be mad to.

grateful,

All I yelled was 'who cares!' after he threatened a 'stern talking to' about helping him out more. He added the '....if I don't come home' part.

Bettina · ~*Service Worker*~

I believe sometimes we need to take a look at ourselves and at the situation and ask ourselves, "will I have regrets"about my decision. To forgive or not to forgive is not about them.

You are the one that decides, nobody can tell you to just forgive.

by the same token we cannot live with anger being the state we live in all the time. It seeps into everything we think and do. The answer lies in your anger and how we strike a balance.

This is your's to figure out. Nobody can tell you to forgive. Father or not , we have to stay away from whats not good for us, but put it in its proper perspective.

The serenity prayer is about that You can't change who your Father is, so as always in Alanon , Acceptance is where your problem may be.

Hugs, Bettina

Tasha · Senior Member

Try replacing all of those thoughts of being mad at him with "the disease".

The disease threatened -

The disease put him through another DUI -

After all The Disease has put everyone through, The Disease has continued to sicken him into acting like an arrogant, juvenile, self-entitled, manipulative 'xxxx'.

Please remember your father did not ask for this disease. No one would ever chose to have this life threatening disease.

I have been so mad at the disease of alcoholism, that I have literally screamed profanities into my backyard (luckily I live in the country).

Then I felt better somehow - I guess because I released the anger into the universe and not at a person who was sick. It took me a while to grasp that I could be mad at the disease, and still love the person. I have done what you have done too. Acoa helps me deal with having an alcoholic father and I have learned how to love myself enough to love him though he is not in recovery.

Xxxxxx - Live and learn.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't know your sponsor's exact wording or what he meant, of course. My take on anger is that I remember the saying, "Anger is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die." We stop feeling angry and forgive them not for their sake, but for our own. By "forgive" I don't mean saying their behavior was okay, or saying that we're up for more of it. It's more moving on from it.

But that said, moving on is one of the hardest things to do. In a way it's the end of the journey, not the beginning. In the beginning, the anger protects us. It's only when it becomes too big and starts devouring us that it's a danger. As things begin to change (because we're changing), the anger should start to fade. That's the way I've understood it.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

We get it, SJ. This disease tears us all up in one way or another. All we can really do is be there with and for one another and try to honestly offer our experience/strength/hope. If I were you, I'd be angry that I had to deal with such a sick Dad.

My Dad wasn't an alcoholic, but he is sick in a lot of ways. In some ways, it doesn't seem right that my Dad has become who he is now because of a disease that he didn't choose either especially when there are other Dads his age or older who just don't suffer from Alzheimer's Disease and stroke residuals. Underneath all his behaviors now, is a man who remembers to some degree who he used to be and aches because he can no longer drive a car, or look after himself, or even remember the last time he shaved and often doesn't even care. I am powerless over the ways the disease is robbing him of mobility, strength, wisdom, athletic prowess, memory and various abilities. He is, too. There are times he forgets I'm driving to see him from 2.5 hour distance even though I've called multiple times before getting there. Sometimes, he's left with another sibling he failed to tell me was driving in to see him to take him out to lunch, too. And when reminded about it by a nurse that I was coming and was there, complains that I should have called him again even though I've made multiple calls from my cellphone on the way to his Assisted Living Facility. There will come a time when he won't know my name or remember who I am to him. I will probably become a stranger to him even though I have been in his life since he was 20 years old. There have been times I have felt angry and wondered if he was playing me - which he may have been on different occasions. There have even been times when I have felt angry and said so about something. But - I've also realized what you did. My Dad isn't going to be with me for ever. I love him. For all his faults, failings, flaws and together with all his strengths, wisdom and sacrifices for my Mom, my siblings and me - I love him. He's the only Dad I have. He's the only Dad I'll ever have. I just don't want to spend what little time we have together being angry with him because he's sick or because he's failed me on several occasions or because he favors some of my siblings over me.

I do hope, SJ, that you know just how good it is to see you and your shares at the board. I look forward to reading whatever you post. I don't know why. I just do. Your Dad had a hand in bringing you here. I'm grateful to him. I'm grateful to you. I don't think I'm the only one here who feels that way about you either.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I support you jim. I probably would have done a reality check on him myself. Being a counselor in a rehab, I would like to know when clients are manipulating and scamming their family members into enabling their addiction which is pretty clearly what he was doing. It is a treatment issue . Not sure if your dad has signed a release for you to talk to his therapist but these behaviors of his are keeping him sick and rehab is the place to be called out on them. For you...I only worry about the disruption to your serenity. "Who cares if you come home" is neither good nor bad but it skirts the issue which is that his guilting behavior and exceptionally poor reasoning doesn't need to be tolerated. Also there is a MAJOR disconnect when he is bitching about needing to get back to the "real world" after 6 days in rehab. He has not been living in the real world for decades. So..for his sake he is better off staying put and going through some humbling and ego deflation. Too bad you couldn't get it across that way but again, you are his son and not his therapist or his taxi service. Where I work it would be considered practically malpractice to turn out a chronically relapsing alcoholic client into the community after 6 days. Leaving at that point would be considered "against medical advice" and staff would ideally try to get you on the phone to warn you not to cave to him. I can see how it's hard to cite these "real" reasons while being bullied on the phone by him.

Mari1978 · Senior Member

Jim

I only get angry because I actually care. How odd. I highly doubt I would find that same anger if I could remove myself emotionally from the situation. We all need to find what works for us in the program. I have noticed that I need to set boundaries for when that anger starts to resinate within. Sometimes I may catch it sometimes I may need to make amends for it. Anger is a feeling and if I dont allow myself the time to work through it when it exposes itself, well it just resurfaces with a stronger force. One day at a time right? One of the best defenses I have for myself when I feel like I may not be able to control my rage is walking away and finding something to work it out whether its a walk or exercise of some sort. My A likes to chop wood, cut trees down. Thankfully we have tons of wooded area around us.

YOu are not alone

Thanks for sharing

In support

M

-- Edited by Mari1978 on Saturday 19th of October 2013 07:42:59 AM

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Jim...I get it that you're angry...just pissed and it spilled over. Part of what Tasha said is what I finally had to come to understand...the truth of the situation was my wife was sick and I was pissed honestly at the disease and not at her. She had a compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body just like your dad...I had to think of what that would be like for me...to drink when I didn't have to and to have consequences I didn't desire. A compulsion of the mind and when I drank my mind didn't work anymore. I get that you're pissed at the situation and would rather not have it in your life at all or any more and then comes the Serenity Prayer that we ask for the serenity to accept what we would rather not have in our life because we are powerless over it all. Praying for the courage to change my perspective and my attitude and my reaction to the people, places and things which come along with the disease had, for me, to come with willingness to do it. The lashing out that I did to hurt my alcoholic because I was hurt never ever brought permanent peace...it was temporary only until the justifications wore away and I found shame and guilt attached to my spirit. Did she deserve what I said and what I did to her? What she was I talking about...my wife or my alcoholic/addict? I learned how to say "I am angry" period and not point a finger at her when I did it..."I don't understand...and I am angry" and then was grateful that I had just changed from saying the "you" pronoun. She had a disease she would not rather have and I had it also. There is a book a CAL book which came out of one of our world conferences in Canada. Mine has a light blue cover and it is entitled "Came to understand". It is filled with the sharings of Al-Anon members the world over about how the program changed their visions, attitudes, beliefs and behaviors and brought them to serenity...whether their alcoholic was still drinking or not. Some days I sit and read and read and read from that piece of literature just so that I can listen to others who are different than I and who have reached understandings and levels of serenity I only hope to attain...whether the alcoholic or addict is still drinking or using or not. Just for me, from my own experiences, I said these things to return hurt and return pain until I came to understand I could change.

Sad that you feel that toxic anger. Happy when you won't need it any longer. In support (((((hugs))))) smile

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

At the height of my anger days with my ex I felt it was important for me to let myself feel the anger, express it - oh how I ranted and raved while driving alone in my car, letting all the poison out instead of keeping it inside where it was hurting me. Through my ranting, I came to understand that there was NO way I could express things to HIM that would get through to him.

There is a scene in Liar Liar with Jim Carey - he can't lie and says "I'm such a sh.." and experiences true dismay when he realizes its the truth, he IS such a sh... Oh how I wished for that light bulb moment to happen to my ex.

When I was a kid my siblings would pick on me relentlessly and when I got angry, I got punished - how twisted was that eh? But for a very long time I swallowed my anger instead of letting it out - as an adult I worked through a LOT of "stuff"; read a lot of self-help, co-dependent type books and did a lot of soul searching self-therapy to heal the wounds and put it all behind me. I know that swallowing the anger is bad for me, blasting the anger at the person causing it doesn't do any good, but getting it out has to happen. Ranting in my car gets the pain out and helps me figure out what to do next. It clears my head, gets the emotions out of the way so that rational thought can lead me to take the next best step towards what is best for me.

I tried to remain on friendly terms with my ex, but he would constantly try to use my civility efforts to his gain, causing more anger and the wheel kept going around. I eventually completely detached from his life, having no more contact with him to free myself from that which was causing me such pain and anger. If he came to me to admit he had been such a sh..., I would forgive him, provided I had evidence that he was TRULY reformed and not just faking it to get something to his own benefit. For my own serenity I choose the term "release" over forgiveness, releasing both myself and him from the expectation of apology and reconciliation.

-- Edited by likemyheart on Saturday 19th of October 2013 11:12:39 AM

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Jim, I so get where you are coming from, I still feel anger, resentment and I still hold grudges for my ex AH. I know this is different, in some ways its easier, acceptable to walk away from a husband, but a Father or son, well thats different.

These feelings are not good for us, never mind the A, they dont really care that much. But these feelings hurt us and keep the A having power over us. If we refuse to let these defects go the A still has control and power over us. Thats the bit that annoys me. My feelings towards my ex are strong, he is still affecting my life and I dont even see or speak to him. I have decided recently to work on these negative feelings because they are holding me back in my recovery, they are keeping my mind and my heart closed and I am allowing this person to have power in my life.

To me this program holds the key to my freedom from this hatred. We have tools and choices. Until we choose to let go of these defects they will continue to fester and grow and effect our lives. Come on Jim, we can do this, trust your program, what else do you have?

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

We sure can be angry and embrace it sometimes. I get myself in trouble with my words when I am angry. I usually fail miserably with a little phrase I concocted which is "find love first, then speak"...maybe one day it will be the rule and not the exception smile I know that feeling you speak of.....letting it out and feeling great. After seeking counsel and working my program, I do what I believe is in my best interest. You will eventually see the wisdom in this experience that your HP wants you to see. I believe letting go and forgiving is a process we each work in our own time.....turn it over and follow the counsel of your HP.

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

You can not make someone be accountable for there actions, until they are ready and choose to come to you on their own. The serenity prayer saved my sanity and this program works when you work it! I have never made any great progress when I was holding onto the past, but that is me. Sending you love and support!

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

Now, as human beings are we not allowed to be angry?
----------------------------------------
When I got angry I reminded myself that even Jesus got angry. I felt very guilty when angry.

The hard part is what we do when we are angry. Our slogan, "Say what you mean. Mean what you say. Don't say it mean". Do you think you were mean? If not, then you are golden.

I personally don't think you were mean, but maybe that is where your sponsor is coming from.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"