The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Alcoholism is a progressive disease that has three possible outcomes: abstinence, insanity, or death. AA, like Alanon, is about progress, not perfection and there may be slips (especially in the beginning) along the way.
Ultimatums (my interpretation of trying to "scare some sense" into some one) rarely work. The slogan, "say what you mean and mean what you say" comes to mind. I understand you want her to know that you're carrying through with your word; she may be in denial about her drinking and your logic may or may not apply. Are you ready to accept the unknown outcome if you do tell her? How can you best achieve having sanity and keeping the children safe?- have a plan that does not rely on your wife, who is not thinking clearly.
Please create and enforce firm boundaries and a safety plan with back up plans to keep your children safe. Sober transportation is necessary. What arrangements can be made to keep her from getting behind a wheel while under the influence? What arrangements can be made with other parents, a sitter, etc? Your lawyer can advise regarding legal options. It may become necessary to involve the law for help.
In support.
-- Edited by bud on Tuesday 15th of October 2013 05:01:35 PM
I know Alanon is not about telling people what to do. We are all diff. and our experiences are all unique, etc. My wife has battled alcohol addiction for many years. She has been to out patient, in-patient, IOP and will stay sober for a while but in time always returns to old habits and quits working whatever plan she is on. I have three small children and she is the homemaker. Until a few months ago, I had never suspected that she has driven with our children, but finally it happened. I made her move out for a couple of weeks and she renewed her efforts and all was quiet for a while. She relapsed (not drove) and then for the last 3-4 weeks has been attending AA and going to a therapist and has a sponsor (all good things). Bad news, on Sat. I suspected she had been drinking with kids, she said she wasn't, I found a small bottle of unopened vodka in her purse, blow up fight ensued and the kids saw a bad verbal fight. I told her previously if I ever suspected her of drinking and driving with a child I would visit a lawyer, which I did yesterday.
My question is now, should I sit her down and tell her that I did visit a lawyer and the consequences are now I will file with the court if it happens again or since I have already stated it once, it's not my responsibility to let her know I followed through?
Net: I want to stay married, I want a sober wife, I am willing to be supportive, etc. but I also want her to know I don't make hollow promises. My lawyer also mentioned it isn't so easy to also simply say "I know she was drinking and found vodka." So...for those with experience, I appreciate you sharing what has been effective. I checked my motives, and yes, the intent is to scare some sense into her, but I also feel I am doing a disservice to myself and her if I don't make it known that I have followed through. Next step should I suspect driving with kid is the courthouse.
Nobody likes change. It's hard on you. It's hard on her. It's hard on the kids. And it is the right thing to do to protect the kids and other innocent drivers or pedestrians on the road. In my family, love was associated with only seeing the best in my Mom, but to some degree that seeing the best only was unhealthy. My Mom (and you and me and your wife and all others) had very healthy thoughts, feelings and behaviors. She also had some that weren't so healthy. No one, when I was a kid, stepped up to the plate to tell her that some of her thoughts, feelings and behaviors were death dealing to our spirits and if allowed to go too far - to our bodies, too. My Mom wasn't a bad person. She was a good person with flaws that needed work and we needed protection from those flaws. We didn't get the protection. She wasn't a drinker, but she was an untreated ACOA. Yes, we can see that our Mum hung the moon as kids, but that view won't stay that way as we grow older and have to deal with some of the wounds inflicted.
Al-Anon will help you stay calm and reasonable but not enabling(assisting) of bad behavior. Your kids aren't going to understand everything you do or don't do. They can't. They're kids. Your wife won't either. She can't. She has an awful disease. You see it. You're doing what you know to do to keep the kids safe. You are also getting help for yourself. To me - that's love.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 15th of October 2013 11:06:23 PM
My heart is with you! I went through this countless times...and I never did get what I wanted, which was a sober husband. I waited for 28 years...and finally I had to accept that I was holding on for some image of a relationship that did not exist in reality....and probably never would.
I wish I had not hung on so long...hoping for happiness...instead of being happy. I finally had to follow through on the threats to leave (after 3 rehabs)...and I told him he could not come home while he was in detox the last time...I figured that way he had counselors around him to work through the news...he of course turned it around and said "what kind of B&$##** tells someone to leave while they are in the hospital?" oy.
I wish I had not hung my life around him and his sobriety, because for me, it was a waste of time....and I lost myself in the process -- focusing on his behavior all the time...was he drinking? did I smell something? looking for bottles in the woods...hypervigilant...you know the drill. I wanted him to CHANGE. like NOW. and despite my increasing efforts and "right fighting" and calling him on his lies...it got me nowhere but stressed.
I wish I had used alanon tools earlier...but I am working them now...and realize I truly am powerless over someone else's behavior and choices.
you are in the right place to help sort through all the stuff you have to slog through...this is a great community...and remember, you can take what you can use / what makes sense to you...and leave the rest...
The slogan, "say what you mean and mean what you say" comes to mind...I will add one, but don't say it mean. I guess I am at the point where I don't want a knock down drag out, nor want it hostile at all, but I feel as though I need to inform her of the "I mean what I say." Ego perhaps? I want my children safe. Always safe, but how can you enforce that over time when someone is attending "help" but that 1% of the time comes this "danger". It's a helpless feeling. Even going the court route doesn't guarantee that without a DWI they don't say, your word vs. hers. Fact is, I don't want to go to court, never have, but at some point the madness gets too much and my children's safety is too important to me.
I really will file a motion if it happens again. It isn't smoke. So isn't that a clear boundary to set? I will also do anything to support her recovery process. This isn't just a do it and your gone as much as this is the red line I won't allow you to cross without consequences.
I don't think I'd wait until it happens again. If filing a motion will work to keep my kids out of a car with a drunk wife, I'd do it. I wouldn't file a motion in hopes my spouse will get sober and save our marriage. I'd file it to protect my kids and to save myself. That's me. Others will weigh in on this. Much encouragement and support. There are no easy answers or solutions to these situations, but Al-Anon does help us clean up our side of the street and do what we can do to take care of ourselves and our children. The spouse gets to do the same if they choose.
Thank you, ntxalanon- I didn't finish the slogan intentionally because I understand where you're coming from and didn't want to suggest that you were being mean.
I agree with your comments. The disease wants to keep us feeling helpless and victimized and grows when we feed it by being reactive. Alanon can help regain sanity.
Gathering your facts, further exploring options, and resources will give you a good foundation for decisions. When my daughter was young, I went through the legal system in an attempt to keep her safe. I alerted the schools, but he was well respected in the community and the schools were unresponsive (until they read about his arrest in the newspaper). I called the police as my only option when her safety was in question. It wasn't ideal and, without my knowledge, it still did happen where she was in his car while he was intoxicated and she's witnessed many of his accidents from the back seat... it stopped when she felt empowered to have a voice without guilt (many conversations so she felt OK to speak up when uncomfortable, etc). She is now a young lady. She hasn't gotten into a car with him behind the wheel in many years and is unlikely to consider it as an option as he is still active in his disease.
Praying for all good things for you and your family.
The slogan first thing first comes to mind. For me that's the safety of your children. Their lives are at risk if she drives drunk with them in the car. I think you should do whatever it takes to prevent this. The consequences should be hers and not your kids. Follow through or she won't stop as actions speak louder than words. I know a family who lost their 2 children due to the husband drink driving. It does happen. Im sorry you are in this situation. I hope your wife gets what she needs.x
I hope you have some meetings to go to also -- we need all the experience and support we can get to navigate these shoals.
I think it is perfectly reasonable to make it clear that you have followed through with what you said you would. But remember that Step 1 is realizing that we are powerless over alcohol/the alcoholic, which means that we can't expect that they will change their actions. It is so hard to keep one's expectations realistic around alcoholics, because we want so much for things to go the way they should. But with alcoholism, the alcoholics make insane choices.
It is also predictable that when alcoholics see things changing, in a way that might call them on their problems, they go into big-time defensive mode. Denying, blaming, lying, more lying, even more lying. Anything to get things back the way they used to be. Sometimes they deny they were drinking at all. Sometimes they get tearful and promise they'll stop, and say they have.
What I wish someone had told me early on was that only around 15%-25% of people who seek recovery or alcohol treatment manage to stay sober longterm. I just kept thinking my A would turn the corner and then we'd be okay again. He denied, he promised, he went into programs, he went into court-ordered rehab, he stopped and relapsed uncountable times. It is now years later and he is still drinking. Most people do notstay sober.
I say that not to be depressing but to say that you can't stake the safety of your little ones on your wife's sobriety. Even if she does enter and stay in a program, it takes a year or so before she would be steady and you'd be a little safer in relaxing. So you've done a very prudent thing in taking action to keep her from driving your children.
It feels infuriating to have to take care of your children full-time, as if there were no other adult involved, when there's another adult right there. I've been there and done it too. But however much A's swear they're fine and dandy, we know they're not. I finally left my A when he endangered the life of our toddler while he was too drunk to know what he was doing.
Take care of those precious kids. I hope you'll keep coming back.
Thanks Mattie. I think it comes down to honesty and but firm boundaries. As you said, I can only control what I do and how I react and what makes me feel comfortable about the safety of my children. I went to a counselor that told me you don't have decide today the rest of your life, and for today, I choose to not travel and leave my kids at home with my wife and at night I don't want her driving them on "errands." The statistics are bad and I have known this for so long. I love my wife, and hope she can stay sober, but I will have to take steps for myself and my kids in the interim.
Hard stuff when loving an A. So many decisions we need to make that almost feel as if we are going against our own nature - and in some ways we are - we do. Keep coming back. Sending lots of encouragement and support.
Just a thought. My husband was ordered to install the ignition lock system on his car and even when the court mandated time is up, he can have it left on and said that he will. The car won't start unless he is 0% BAC and it even makes him test randomly while he is driving so that he can't drink while he's driving after the car is started. Ingenious!!!! Someone understands the alcoholic mind don't they? Just wondering if you could have one put on a car without a court order. It has (so far) been a life saver for my husband and many innocent people on the road.
__________________
"Just being there for someone can sometimes bring hope when all seems hopeless." - Dave G. Llewellyn
I spoke to her and was honest. Laid out my concern for the kids and that I did speak to an attorney about legal remedies if she drives again. Right or wrong, I can't feel like I am hiding something from my wife even though when it comes to alcohol she doesn't always feel that way. I feel extremely depressed about the whole situation. My beautiful children think their mom hung the moon and like all of us is imperfect and unfortunately is an addict. I will continue to support her and I hope this doesn't forever change our relationship. I have to be willing to follow through if I am going to be able to live with myself and objectively an alcoholic driving my child with a small bottle of vodka isn't ok and isn't safe. She is pretty upset and rightly so, it's upsetting. I need to hit a face to face meeting this week and need to be mature about this and be loving but not let my love blind common sense. Thanks for your support.
My suggestion ...for now... is to do what she has done recently...meetings, literature, work the program with a sponsor (yourself). You sound like you're trying to maintain control in the face of the 1st step and in the face of the 1st step that will only cause (from my experinece) more self confusion, anxiety and anger. We didn't cause it, we cannot control it, we will not cure it. The safety of the children is a just reason to take her out from behind the wheel of the car...all judges will do the same thing if and when she is caught and then she has been caught...take her keys away and/or disable the car. She can call a taxi or have a sober person do the driving. I never won a long term confrontation with the disease. I always walked away looking back over my shoulder. Keep coming back (((((hugs)))))
I did the same thing with my AH, told him I talked to a lawyer about his behavior(this was just after I started Al Anon and was hopeful that I could still change things or fix it myself) and his driving our son around either after drinking or actually drinking while he was driving (he'd have a nice plastic red cup and drive our son around, ugh). Anyway, that didn't change anything for us. Eventually, he did get a DUI, luckily no one else was in the car and no one was injured. He was nearly 3 times the legal limit and wound up doing time in jail and getting 18 months of an ignition interlock (breathalyzer) on his car. Yet, that, too didn't stop him from driving on a suspended license(he had a 30 day hard suspension first) nor did it stop him from trying to start his car after drinking. He got 2 violations on his interlock device and they slapped him with another 6 months of the device because he blew a .15 each time, so now we'll be paying for it until next August!
My AH is a good man, but he is sick. He is mentally, spiritually, and physically ill because of mental health issues and the alcoholism, too. It creates one heck of a toxic environment and yet my AH still doesn't see that there's a problem. Again, that's part of the illness. I stopped trying to control him, I have put boundaries in place and they are very clear and my son will NOT ride in the car with him if he knows dad has been drinking. For now, the interlock helps prevent that but eventually we'll have to deal with it. Also, luckily, my son will be driving in a year so hopefully he can offer to drive if he thinks dad has been drinking, too. I don't know the age of your children but kids who are 9 and up can be given a plan if they don't feel safe. Also, depending on how open your wife is to an interlock device, she can get one put on her car without court orders. We pay $90 a month for it but it's cheaper than someone losing a life.
You say you will do anything to support her recovery. Doe s that include leaving her alone if she doesn't want to recover? If you can't tolerate a wife not in real recovery, then don't. Clear boundaries annd not coercive. Boundaries for you and the kids...not to change her.
