The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Hi. Welcome to MIP. You haven't broken any board rules. This is the place for folks just like you. I read that you don't think you're ready for meetings. That's the advice we give. Attending meetings, reading the literature, finding a sponsor, Al-Anon membership are the ways we've learned best to help ourselves deal with what is a fatal disease without treatment. We know that we are powerless over this disease and over the person who has it. We also know that without the help that Al-Anon offers to us, our lives not only are unmanageable, they stay unmanageable.
Perhaps you're concerned that somebody will see you at a meeting? If so, please keep in mind that everyone in the meetings are dealing with the same disease in a loved one or friend. The meetings are completely anonymous. We are asked not to reveal who we see there, what we hear there. I've been in Al-Anon since 1979. No one has ever broken my anonymity and the towns I have lived in are not big cities.
Others will respond to you at the board. We also have on-line meetings twice a day. Information about the meetings are at the top of this board. Please keep coming back. I can't stress enough the importance of attending meetings. Without them, we flounder. With them, we learn how to take better care of ourselves and enjoy life for ourselves, whether the person with a drinking problem continues to drink or not. Keep coming back. You're in the right place. Glad you're here.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 26th of September 2013 10:10:25 PM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 26th of September 2013 10:11:00 PM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 26th of September 2013 10:12:18 PM
I am new to this board, so I hope it's ok if I just jump in. My husband is currently passed out in our bed. He phoned me after work and asked me to come and meet him downtown... I did, and he was sitting at a bus stop, pretty drunk, and looking so sad it broke my heart. I managed to drag him home (the most mortifying 30 minute walk ever - we both work downtown and this is not a big city). Anyway, as far as I knew, things were actually pretty good lately. And that's what kills me - that every time I think things are going good and he's not drinking and things are awesome, it turns out that in fact he has been drinking, just hiding it from me. And lying about it. Always with the lying. I am terrified to leave him alone tomorrow (he has the day off, I do not) but pretty much no one else knows about the extent of his drinking, which he has been struggling with for probably 4-5 years now. Anyway, he does not believe the 'disease' perspective touted by AA - and there is of course literature out there that supports the theory that in fact AA-disease type approaches are not effective and can even be harmful in some cases. I myself am not sure what I believe and remain open minded. We are also both atheists, and the 'god focused' (I know they say 'higher power' now but where we live, it's 'god focused' in the Christian sense) aspect of it just does not compute with him. For him, there is literally no higher power for him to surrender himself to, so where does that leave him with all of the 'steps'... anyway. I know these boards are for the non drinkers but since it's my first time posting I thought some context might be a good thing.
I guess what I want to know is, when people on these boards talk about not being able to control an A and how I should just not concern myself with him but just take care of myself - does that mean I should be leaving him? Otherwise, how do I manage to take care of myself, when his behaviour ends up dominating everything? I do love him, and he is never violent or mean when he's drinking. We have been married for 4 years now, together for 8. I don't even know HOW to get a divorce or what that looks like financially (we just bought our first house and have an enormous mortgage and LOC). I make good money and could support myself, but it's just so overwhelming. I guess what I am looking for are some suggestions for how I leave him to his devices and take care of myself that are short of divorce. His safety matters to me, I can't just walk away. I know this sounds so cliche but he honestly is a really good person. I don't think I am really ready to give up yet.
Anyway... any advice you can offer is appreciated. I don't think I am ready to go to meetings. I also have tried counselling but I don't know what I'm supposed to get out of it (other than crying to a stranger for an hour)... not sure if that makes sense. I've always been very a very private person and it seems weird to me that I have these problems that I can't think my way out of. His behaviour is just so foreign to me, his thinking is a mystery. I guess, and it sounds silly, but I guess I just am not sure what taking care of myself looks like. What kinds of things constitute progress? What are some goalposts I should be aiming for?
Okay, I should stop rambling. I'm sorry this is all over the map. It does feel better to put this all out there and hopefully even that much amounts to some progress. Apologies if I have broken any 'board rules' without realising it.
Oh hon, I know how you are feeling. I went to my first al-anon meeting in May and it was one of the hardest things I have ever done in my life. We also live in a smallish city and my fear was that I would meet someone I knew there and it would be embarrassing and hurtful. I think I went to at least five meetings and never got out of the car. But finally I mustered the strength to go in. It was one of the best things I have ever done for me and interestingly for my husband and son also. I also just do not believe in the God of the bible any more. But I do believe that we come from pure energy and are always striving to return to that purity. And that ideal is my HP.
I was ready to leave my husband when I went as there was just too much pain even though he, like your husband, was fundamentally a good man. They gently advised me to wait, to learn, to understand and to take care of me before I made any decisions. And they have helped me so much in conjunction with a counselor to understand that I can still love the man even if I despise the disease. It's weird but, with some of the ideas and techniques presented, my relationship with both my husband and son has improved. I stopped trying to monitor, I stopped snooping, I stopped the controlling behavior that was killing me and really having no effect on them. I am at peace now mostly. I know that I will be ok if I stay or if I feel it is time to leave. I am slowly learning not only to set boundaries but also to maintain them.
Once my husband raised an objection to my going to the meeting -that I was telling strangers my private business- and I replied that, had it not been for the meetings and what I have learned, I would have left months before so maybe he should be giving thanks that I had found an understanding group.
Thank you both for your quick replies, I'm so grateful for your compassion and honesty.
I guess it does come down to being afraid of the meetings - maybe not so much afraid of seeing someone I know, although that is certainly a possibility... but of all of the unknowns about it. I'm a bit of an (ok, a whole lot of an) overfunctioner perfectionist type. If I go to a meeting but I can't finish the process, I am afraid of letting myself down, and of letting the group members down or having them know that I have failed. I didn't even realise al-anon had a concept of sponsors... that actually puts additional pressure on, to be honest.
But I hear what you are both saying and I think I just need to suck it up and be brave and try. Maybe I too will go and sit outside in my car a few times before I make it through the door, but eventually I hope I can do it. It might even be good to show my husband that I am taking steps, and maybe it will put some things into perspective for him. But, I know that I need to do it for me and not for him. If I am not going to leave, then I need to figure out a way to stay that doesn't end up with any one of a few worst-case scenarios I can think of.
Dont be afraid to go to an Al-Anon meeting, people are gentle and want to help especially a newcomer. Go with the attitude that you are curious about what it is all about. Go with an open mind. Don't feel pressured to talk, you don't have to, you can just listen. Don't feel committed, take your time. If they have literature there take some, if they have books, buy one and take it home and read. Go to more than one meeting, if this is not for you, you will know, don't feel obligated. Keep an open mind. Keep coming back to this web site it is very helpful and you can express yourself without being ridiculed. Read the 12 Steps, there is much wisdom in them, take what you want/need and leave the rest. Good Luck and welcome. ...In support, oldergal
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Don't Worry About Growing Old, It Is A Privilege For Some Of Us.....
Big city---small city----whomever you would run into at a meet, trust me, they are , if they are working on recovery, so into their own program, nobodys gonna go "tsk tsk I saw so and so at the meet" they are just not like that.......
and no worries about the religion thingy...I was christian and I still believe that there is a God and Christ, however my life experiences were such that I came to believe that they are not involved in my life, so I am sort of agnostic re: any hp being involved in my life......sooo the PROGRAM became my higher power....or nature.....or the beauty of a sunset/ sunrise..... or LOVE is my higher power......Peace and love........so don't worry about being the odd ball on that one either.....Some people just de-convert or never did believe b/c of their being hit w/too much of the sad side of life, which was my issue
I do hope you give program and the meetings, step work, slogan practice a try, peferably with a good sponsor to guide you.......focus on your recovery and don't make any big decisions until at least a year of hard recovery work.......
Just my take, please take what you can use and leave the rest
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I can so relate to how confused and worried you are feeling, and the person you describe yourself to be.
I actually have never been to a Face to Face meeting--even though I know it would be beneficial. I work and at the end of the work day I just want to go home, fix dinner, walk my dog, then have a little down time. I don't want to go anywhere. That is why I have started participating in the 9 pm meetings here (look at the top of this page, see the words "Chat Room Entrance"? At 9 pm EST, click on that and it will take you to a page where you have to create a screen name for yourself. After you do, you can enter the meeting. I have learned so much and have gotten answers to the kinds of questions you pose in your post.
Keep coming back!
I can so relate to how confused and worried you are feeling, and the person you describe yourself to be. I actually have never been to a Face to Face meeting--even though I know it would be beneficial. I work and at the end of the work day I just want to go home, fix dinner, walk my dog, then have a little down time. I don't want to go anywhere. That is why I have started participating in the 9 pm meetings here (look at the top of this page, see the words "Chat Room Entrance"? At 9 pm EST, click on that and it will take you to a page where you have to create a screen name for yourself. After you do, you can enter the meeting. I have learned so much and have gotten answers to the kinds of questions you pose in your post. Keep coming back!
Oh yea, I have gone to this meeting..........A sweet lady named Overcome hosts it, I think, GREAT meet......thanks Ignutah for the reminder.......
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
lgnutah that definitely is a part of my reluctance on face to face meetings - it sometimes feels like going to work full time, coming home, running a house, walking the dog, all of that stuff is just what I have to do to maintain any small sense of normalcy. Adding going to a meeting just seems like so much more effort that I wonder if I have the energy to give. All that said though, I had a really good talk with my MIL today about husband's drinking and felt like I finally was able to open up about it to someone who understands (her father was also an A). I think what that tells me is that I might be getting to the point where talking about it with people will start to make me feel better. Online meetings sound like something I would definitely try and I will for sure look into that - there are not many options for meetings in my city and a lot of them are during the work day... so online might just be the place to start.
I wanted to say that I can relate very much to not being ready for meetings, for me it was helpful to do a lot of online meetings. That was a little bridge for me to get to meetings, which are always helpful. Living w an A and active alcoholism is too much for most people. It is helpful for me to be reminded of that, and it sounds like you are feeling that too.
You will receive lots of support here. The best thing is to start taking care of yourself...there is nothing you can do about whether the A is drinking or not. I also heard from a counselor two things that were, pardon the pun, sobering: 'why are you shocked at alcoholic drinking? he is doing what alcoholics do' and 'you know and alcoholic/addict is lying when....their lips are moving'
keep coming back and I would highly suggest the online mtgs and literature to start if the face to face meetings are too overwhelming at first.
Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Even if someone is all like 'I praise the lord for blah blah blah" listen for the part of the message that applies to you. Just cuz someone believe in God doesn't make them ignorant or not worthy of listening to. I used to be so agnostic that I tuned out whenever I perceived someone as devout. Turns out they do have good things to say and faith is not a bad thing. I needed to develop my own system of faith cuz looking for meaning and inspiration from another drunk or a bottle was not working for me.
Hey Newbie friend
When I first went to meets, I felt just like this...if it had anything to do w/ god or religion, I too, tossed the baby w/the bathwater.......now, I take what I like and leave the rest........my beloved cousin is a devout christian......I listen to her....i take what works and i toss the rest, but I am still best friends w/her......she understands my agnostic views not on existence of any creator, but that it is not involved in my life...that is where I am agnostic....however, I can listen to the christians and other religious folks talk and some have a lot of good stuff to offer.....my cousin for one.......she knows I practice metaphysics as my philosophy (good energy out...goon energy in, basically) and she respects my native american approach re: referring to creator as the source or great spirit......and how we already have the tools to work out our own lives.....I don't buy into any outside diety in a grey beard up in the sky is going to come "work my life" for me.......I gotta work it.........I have to work my options and take care of me...........however I listen to others.....i just exercise the freedom to take what I like and leave the rest..........Like this poster above me....I had to work out my OWN slant on my OWN higher power as I UNDERSTAND IT.....good ole step 2 does not put me off anymore.......step 3, the surrender step does not put me off any more.......to me , I just "toss it off me" (that which I am powerless over) I walk away.......detach.........that is step 3.....just taking my hands off and letting it go...........whatever forces of the universe want to work on it??? they are welcome....if noone wants to work on it??? well...it is off me......sometimes just releasing is enough........i don't worry about "where it goes" when I detach from something.......so yea, I had to just work out what works for me, but now I open my ears to anyone's statements.......i just take what I want.........
I had horrible luck w/face to face meets here in my area....u would think a city this big would have alanon meets, and forget acoa meets which i really would love............so....i go on line.....chat in chat rooms afterwards for follow up if needed............it works for me..........
then I have recovery mates I talk on phone with............and talk about a mixed bag.....1 is a Jew....1 is a Christian......the other is a sort of agnostic/metaphysician like me with a dash of native american spirituality w/her.......she is soo like me,,,,,,,,,but I get good info out of ALL my recovery mates...........you got good esh here....I sure hope you give it a chance
this program survives by our healthy INTER dependence on each other....not DE pendent, but INTER dependent....big difference.......we need each other.....even folks like me who in personal , non recovery milieu I am very reserved, distant till I know I am safe.....but we ALL need other humans.....to share....to care....to learn and to teach.....to share our caring, love, experience, strength and our hope......the one who shared above me said it spot on..............
-- Edited by neshema2 on Saturday 28th of September 2013 06:28:59 PM
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I used to think working a recovery program would "impinge on" things that were so meaningful (cooking dinner, playing with pets) - but the reality was my life sucked, I was spiritually empty. I felt hopeless and didn't see any way out. So....that being said, I could make time (an hour) and go to a meeting. Dinner and the dog are waiting at home. Furthermore, what happened was I found friends, coping skills, a new way of living and hope. That was WAY WAY WAY more important. I wasn't even enjoying homelife before anyhow. The program allowed me to appreciate and enjoy my life outside the rooms even more. I began looking forward to meetings so as to see my friends and to stay focused and on track.
When your life partner is an alcoholic, it often seems your world (along with theirs) gets smaller and smaller and smaller....They dominate everything. Everything is tainted by disease (yes it is a disease - not sure why people even argue that after the AMA has even endorsed that - if you look in places you will find people poopooing non-AA aproaches - poopooing atheisms, and poopooing "god" as well. There are always nay-sayers for every darn thing). Anyhow - people do need each other. When around other people, sharing, caring, looking for peace - solutions - that BECOMES a higher power right there. Despite what anyone says about their idea of a higher power and if it is traditional/"god" or not, that higher power of community, unity, caring, and support is what I believe really holds alanon together and it alone is quite spiritual so don't necessarily balk just cuz someone says "god." Besides, if you've never been to one of the meetings, how do you know everyone is all about a traditiona "god" type higher power?
Just like your husband, the tendency would be to allow alcoholism to take over and grow insideously stronger. Finding reasons to avoid meetings is not uncommon.....even more so for the alcoholic. Most alcoholics have what we call a concept of "terminal uniqueness" and this is somewhat true of newcomers in alanon too. They think that nobody on earth can have the same problems and have all the reasons in the world why AA/alanon will not work for them. Often times it takes becoming so freaking miserable that you don't care enough about your "atheism" or whatever is making you so unique that you can't seek the solution right there - that is when people start really surrendering and working a program of recovery.
Your husband may or may not be willing to surrender. It sounds like you are pretty close though. There is a seat waiting for him in AA when he stops listening to the disease which is telling him he's so different than your garden variety drunk and that he can't possibly go to "those AA meetings with those God people." Alcoholism is so sneaking, cunning, and baffling a disease that it literally causes the person to reject and push away anything that threatens it. Meanwhile, it cause the person to twist, cling, and become dependent on anyone and anything that supports it. Hence, that is where enabling comes in.
Alanon will help you build a life that is more abundant and not dominated by your husband. You do not have to leave him if you aren't ready or don't want to. You will be healthier and happier with some tools and a place to go where you can focus on you and not have alcoholism in your face and dominating everything. You deserve your own hobbies, friends, things to do apart from him. Alanon helps you to look out for yourself like that instead of focusing so much on the relationship with a sick person and expecting all your life meaning to come from that relationship with a very sick person. He may be able to still meet some of your needs for intimacy and companionship but he's impaired and sick so a full life will mean you growing as a person and letting other people and things in. Hope this makes sense.
Going to meetings will also be good for him even though your real intent should be to go for you. It does model recovery and actually doing something solution based rather than the "poor me" "terminal unique" "I'm a victim" mentality that pretty much all active alcoholics have. Also, without some form of recovery, alcoholics generally get worse, never better. The tendency would be for you to grow more and more into a caretaker and less and less of a wife. Sounds like some of this is already going on. Personally, if my partner got so drunk he coulnd't find his way home, I guess he'd have to get a cab or lay out in the street. I'm not walking him home like a lost puppy and I'm not feeling sorry for him either. I have better things to do than participate in his self sabotage if that's what he wants to do. I still love him but I didn't sign up for that. That's a boundary that took a while to have. I didn't have those boundaries or thinking prior to AA/alanon.
Best of luck for you! Just try and keep an open mind. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Even if someone is all like 'I praise the lord for blah blah blah" listen for the part of the message that applies to you. Just cuz someone believe in God doesn't make them ignorant or not worthy of listening to. I used to be so agnostic that I tuned out whenever I perceived someone as devout. Turns out they do have good things to say and faith is not a bad thing. I needed to develop my own system of faith cuz looking for meaning and inspiration from another drunk or a bottle was not working for me.
