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Does anybody out there have a consolidated list of examples showing the difference between boundaries and walls in relationship to adult children in active stages of alcoholism they can post for us parents? And anybody else who'd like the same info? Thanks, family.
I wish I had something. I don't want to put up walls because that will not help anyone and hurt me more I think. I want healthy boundaries...not walls.
I'm going to look into this myself
((( hugs )))
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
There is a difference. It is critical to our well being in how we relate to our ourselves, family units, occupations and society.
One of things we try to teach our children over the years is the concept of boundaries, that it is not okay for someone to violate theirs, nor is it okay for them to violate others. We do this to protect them, and learn respect for themselves and others. Without boundaries, the world, our homes and social interactions for the individual becomes a frightening place, one where no one is safe, and paranoia is the rule rather than the exception. Boundaries are healthy, vital parts of our psyche as human beings.
Boundaries, on a personal level, are formed through life experiences, both negative and positive, that have taught us what is a comfortable or uncomfortable behavior, action or reaction. A boundary is created by those when in control of their environment and person, and they have made a decision regarding a behavior, action or reaction.
The walls that we build in life are formed in much the same way. They too, are formed through life experiences. Unlike boundaries, walls are never derived from a positive experience. Their root is always a reaction to a life experience, one in which they lacked control of their person or environment that created it. The person attempts to reestablish control by creating the wall with the goal of not having to deal with or encounter the stimulus that created it again. Walls are formed a great many times by reactions to fear and anger turned inward (resentments). Walls are not the product of a thought out decision, but are an instinctive response to a behavior, action or reaction.
Having a well defined sense of boundaries means the person is free to communicate with their environment (themselves, family units, occupations and society) of what it is that makes them uncomfortable. It allows a dialogue between themselves and the situation that they are encountering, permitting the stimulus that caused it a choice to respect the persons boundary. If the boundary is not respected, the person that created the boundary remains in control of the situation and is free to take further steps in which to protect their boundary.
If the person has built a wall in response to a given behavior, action or reaction means that the person will have a great deal of difficulty communicating with the stimulus that has caused their wall to be breached. There is no dialogue only a shutdown or inappropriate reaction by the person who created the wall. The stimulus that caused the breach has no way to make a choice to cease what has caused the violation because it is unaware or uninformed of the result of the wall being breached. The person with the wall remains not in control of their person or environment because their reactions are being controlled by the stimulus that caused the breach, even though the people that caused the breach are probably unaware of this.
The more boundaries a person has, the more well defined they are as a person. The more walls a person has deepens their isolation, mistrust, and paralyzes them in situations where their wall is breached depriving them of choices due to their lack of control.
In essence if we were to boil it down to a simple phrase one could say: "Walls Suffocate while Boundaries Communicate".
The result of a person having many walls is where the similarities between a wall and a boundary end. Those with boundaries, form healthy relationships with themselves, family units, occupations and society. Those that build walls, find that those relationships suffer. A relationship cannot function if both sides do not give and receive from the relationship. Those with walls are prevented from giving or receiving anything. Trust suffers in these relationships because there is a lack of honesty on the part of the one who has built the wall.
So how does one who has identified that they are a "wall builder" come out from behind the wall? First, it is not an overnight process. The thinking of the individual is skewed by the walls that exist. Because many times they have existed for years, and their top priority is making sure that the wall is never breached, all interactions our governed by this priority. What appears to be a rational decision by the wall creator is in fact not such. Rarely can a person identify this and accomplish recovery on their own. Usually some sort of counseling or interaction with a human being is required to assist them. Those that have walls MUST make this realization and be willing to take that step to help themselves, having had enough of their loneliness and isolation. It will not be successfully imposed by others over the long term.
So in closing I say again: "Walls Suffocate while Boundaries Communicate". So I ask you, who is in control of you today? If it is in fact your walls, contact someone, anyone including myself and begin the process of dealing with it. Dont stay in your prison any longer.
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
I can share my own experience relating to a reading in courage to change (no idea where, may even be hope for today)
Boundaries can change and are flexible while walls are rigid and stiff .. Walls keep others Out and keep Us in .. like when we get mad at someone and refuse to talk to the person again for hours, days, weeks, etc.. Boundaries are used for us and not meant to try to change others, control or cure them. Even though we teach others how to treat us and boundaries do help, the motive behind them is really to use them to keep 'ourselves mentally and emotionally sane as in to help us set lines for us according to what We think We can live with in any given moment, etc.. boundaries allow others to come close to us but keep diseased or unhealthy behaviors distant in order to prevent us from suffering even more of the effects on our own thinking, behaviors etc..
I have a friend in my life for example who has recovery but is grieving. She ended up behaving in a way that normally could have harmed as in damaged our relationship, but because I was able to set boundaries, it turned out ok ... I saw when I set them, I had put limits in how much time I would spend with this person but also later saw that my real motive was to try to Teach her a lesson and therefore the boundaries were set in place for the wrong reason. After thinking about the situation and seeing the first motive, I realized I wasn't truly that upset with her, and I understand what she is going through. What I decided to do instead was to watch for next time. While we need limits, if I am feeling ok, I don't need to draw that line. If, on the other hand, the verbal begins and she is tired and wanting me to carry her resentments, I can separate as needed on the spur of the moment. I can also detach with love in that I can hug her goodbye, tell her I love her and ask her to give me a call when she's feeling better.
I was thinking of this the other night and while I thought I grew up with no boundaries, I knew how far I could go and I didn't trample over others. The sad thing is, I realized with many that what I thought were boundaries were really walls. When they got mad, they refused to talk to me. It hurt because they were keeping me out. On the other hand, they hurt too because they were keeping themselves isolated. hope that helps without reading confused.
WOW....that was great, Cathy....Thanks for researching and sharing....I got a lot out of it...I used to do the wall thingy......I used to have an analogy for walls vs boundaries
I would put up walls........high....impenetrable.......so high I can't see out and noone can see in....like big stone structures that were as cold as my heart was......or maybe I wasn't cold....just curled up in so much pain, I didn't want to be touched or messed with in anyway....I isolated behind my stone walls.....nobody saw me and I didnt' see anyone......I was safe but I was also locked up......like putting in in a stone wall prison to "keep me safe".....but I was still in my prison........I locked out the good as well as the bad.....shunning any one who might attempt to love me and honour me.....I gave noone any chance.......I would go to work.....go home to my little cottage that I had "bartered" my way into when I left AH #2 and I would curl up in my bed and fantasize.......all by myself......I kinda was a recluse.....I didn't want anymore to do, at least socially, with humans......
NOW, with 11 years recovery I am still wary of humans.....I am very slow to give my trust and it comes in pieces....
my walls are torn down, and instead I have a high chain link fence around me.......I can see out....they can see in, however on the gate there is a lock......the people and I can talk back and forth through my fence.....they on one side , me on the other.....as we get to know each other, I can , when I feel safe enough , unlock the gate and let them inside, in my yard.....not in the house, but in the yard......if they continue to be safe, I allow them closer to my house.....and finally if the relationship grows to one of mutual trust and closeness, then I can welcome them into my house....
others in varying "circles" of my life may be permitted in the yard but not the house.....still others are out side the fence where we can "chit chat" superflous topics and I am safe.....
I am not in a prison anymore....just have the fence up and gate locked until I know it is safe to admit a person......I can see all what is around me and they can see me, but I control how close one gets to me.....at anytime in the relationship, if the other betrays me or does other harm to me, I can usher them out of my yard, out side of the fence and I can lock my gate......folks who betray or abuse me or otherwise violate my hard won trust, usually I dont give them another chance....I can forgive, but I don't let them close to me anymore
trust comes with no refill....once emptied or drained out, it is done....yes, I can forgive and even talk to the person, but I keep my distance....it just is never the same again.....trust is a gift....an honor....a sacrosanct gift that I take very seriously......its odd.....I am the reserved one....the "keeps her distance" person until I am safe, and eveyone who comes into contact w/me all trust me.....I can't tell you all how many people have told me, they feel so safe with me.....
maybe it is b/c I am what I am and thats the way I am (Popeye) What you see is what you get....I have no time for lies and BS and don't want to be around it..........ask me a ??? I don't want to answer and I will tell you I don't want to answer.....U won't get a lie.....Maybe I am this way b/c there was no ability to trust growing up....no structure....nobody kept their word.....ones promises were like confetti in the wind...absolutely useless.......i didn't know what a boundary was.....had no clue that I had rights and that I could say "no"...........I think back then I began to build those walls quite young.....i just didn't notice until way later when I would be lonely, but too afraid to reach out for fear that the pain they would give me would be worse than the lonliness....I was in a vice..........to afraid to reach out........craving hugs and warmth and to be treated like a human being....a life that was precious......My walls that I built robbed me of the safe folks as well as protecting me from the bad ones...
I know now there is a lot of evil in this world....always was....but I also know that there is a lot of good in this world.....always was.....I am learning to trust in my instincts and my program knowledge......if they don't "smell or feel" right??? back off....pay attention to my inner voice.......and like the rungs of a ladder.....make friends stepping on one rung at a time.....and at any time, my inner child knows that we can slide back down that ladder and walk away...
the feared step 4, I couldn't wait to get to it b/c I really wanted honesty.....i really wanted to know all about me, good, bad, and in between.......i saw a lot about me I didn't like, but I understood why i had to develop those "survival skills"......I saw stuff that was really really good about me.....
I guess that is why I love this program and adore the steps.....because here, one has to be brutally honest with self...others.....HP in order to progress.......
I always tell folks I wold rather get hurt w/the truth than caressed with a lie.....I hate dishonesty as much as I do predators.....
OK, sorry, I hijacked Grateful's post......got WAAAAAY off topic....
thanks for letting me ramble on......
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I didn't read many of the posts before I posted but read wow Cathy .. lol so .. I went above and read your post .. that was truly an awesome reply .. Sitting here I realized though why I Still feel lonely .. I still have walls that are in the process of coming down but the hope is I can see them today .. Rigidity is a wall that's been built but the more I gain trust, the more relaxed I am working toward becoming .. Thanks for sharing this !!
For me this can be a struggle - when Im on the ball my boundaries are about me rather than my children so for example if my son is abusive I detach so I might say ' i wont listen to verbal abuse so i am leaving the room if you want to talk later i am here to listen,' thus protecting myself from abuse, sending a message that i wont tolerate unacceptable behaviour but leaving a door open for conversation acknowledging his feelings. I try so hard to avoid the you conversations - ie you did this or that you are.... This can cause harm and damage and set your relationship back. These are walls to me. Its all about motives in my experience so if you put a stop to something as long as it is about you and not them then the motives are pure so in other words I might say no you cant live with me - my motives are that I want to protect my serenity, the harmony of my home, my younger sons peace and safety, my motives are pure but if i said or thought no you cant live with me because you have got to learn ... or you need to be taught a lesson ... then my motives are about walls not boundaries. Hope this makes sense.x
Walls, walled me in. They Kept me from experiencing life which included the pain and the joy. The wall also kept me frozen in time and non teachable I thought I knew everything and was always right.
Boundaries are flexible conditions that I place on myself that keep me safe but let life in and gives me room to grow and experience the give and take of life.
A boundary for me would be: I do not engage with drunk people.If you are drunk I will hang up and talk when you are sober that boundary is for me to take to protect myself. No expectations to change anyone else or have them react differently.
A wall is: I will never talk to you again because you are a drunk
I am a wall builder second to none! Exactually what was described earlier on here. Not on purpose but it sure happened. My wall was/is the den. I pretty much live in the den. Just shut the door and I am by myself. Pretty content actually. If I was anywhere with the AH I would be ignored. He is either reading sports, watching sports, listening to sports or sports talk shows. Or if we would be out he would be talking to someone about, you guessed it.
I see how it happened...I got hurt so many times from being neglected ect, that I went behind my wall where he couldn't ignore me. Every time he went through my boundries a little piece of my self esteem, ect got taken away. And the wall started to grow. Till it turned into an actual room. I also hava a portable wall mobile that I hop in whenever I need to go thorugh the rest of the house.
The master bedroon is another room where I reside alone. I had put up with his snoring ( caused by the drinking) till I was loosing my mind. So I got him out of there a couple of years ago. Ahh, peace at last. There was nothing going on in there, so again I continually felt rejected, unloved, all of it. So now I'm alone, but not being ignored..so it's better
I see that these walls are built out of mad and hurt, and heart break, dissapointment. I am working hard to get rid of the mad
I have been hurt, and have had my heart broken, and been living with dissapointment. BUT>>BUT>>BUT I CAN CHOOSE TO NOT LIVE IN A STATE OF MAD!!!!!!! I've been really mad for a really long time. I have gotten rid of a lot of the mad and am replacing it with a vision of the future.
Excellent shares! Walls and boundaries is a topic with as many perspectives as there are those who have used them. I was in an affected family member's group where we did some art therapy which can be very intense stuff. in the beginning of my recovery i lived in a cell with no doors, no windows just me in an impenetrable room like the safe rooms they build now in cities. then i was taught that i could create a window in the room, then i cracked the window. then i created a door. didnt open at all at first. then i learned that if someone knocked on the door i could choose to open or not or i could talk with them through the door whatever felt safe. Walls got created to keep me safe because i had been so violated i had to retreat into a box so complete no one could reach my core. i progressed and eventually reached a place where i peeked out of the door. when i did, unfortunately, i discovered there was a stone prison cell around the box. in the art exercise i drew the stone prison cell had a wooden door with a grill in it. i sat across from the door curled in a defeated posture. then someone pointed out something that was on the floor i didnt even see in my drawing. it was a key. then i got brave enough to unlock the door and peeked out to see if there was anybody in the corridor. no guards nothing at all just open sky at the end of the hall. i discovered that there were other rooms in the building that i could look into and decide whether i felt safe enough to open. then finally i took off running and flung myself into the open sky, knowing that god would either give me wings or hold me in hir hand. This was my experience in figuring out walls.
Then i learned that there are 3 steps to developing good boundaries. first i had to learn what my boundaries were. second, i had to set the boundary with others, and third the hardest of all, enforcing my boundaries. i then learned how to set and enforce boundaries by using the following words;
when someone tried to get me to say and do something that felt squirmy i would say, "how would it help you to know that?" or if someone said something totally inappropriate, i can say, "Oh! Why do you ask?"
then if someone contiues to request something from i can say, "i choose not to do that; or i choose not to share that or to discuss it." the 1st time i set a boundary with my mother when she started poking around in my business and i set this boundary, she acted like i had stabbed her through the heart and said "i would never speak to my mother that Way! and i said, "i know mom. i need to leave now." I walked out of my parents house, pulled out of the driveway, opened the car door and threw up in the street!
how i learned to set a boundary was to use "I" statements like this:
I feel (name emotion)
when (name event, not other person's words or actions)
Because o(name basis for my feeling)
For instance, "i feel scared when a door is slammed behind me because it startles me so badly."
boundaries are very powerful stuff. With my angry hurting son when he was little he would glom onto my leg and i would have to haul him around with me. this felt very violating physically, so after earning my orange belt in taekwondo and getting very strong, when he violated my boundary by grabbing onto my leg with both his legs and arms, how i had to enforce it was to simply lift my 7 year old up by the front of his shirt off my leg, gently, not choking or anything, just held him away from me and said calmly and without threat "back off" The way i set the boundary with him was. "i feel trapped when i'm confined because y space is violated. [he was a very smart little boy] so i need you not to cling to me that way. with children we always have to have clearly described our boundary before any consequence occurs.
With my teenager this didnt work so i had to think of new ways to set and enforce boundaries. such as "i do not choose to talk to you when you are this angry, or abusive, or use such language. you need to stay in your room until you can treat me with respect. then we can discuss this."
But last and worst by far was when my young adult son would hide drugs in the house or use on my property. i had to tell him i will not allow you to stay in my house if you bring drugs into it." Then he left for a couple of years when he came back to my home when he was 23 he became physically threatening to me because of his drug use. i had to leave the house immediately. i retreated, cried for an hour then went home. he apologized profusely. i told him i would not permit him around me if i felt physically threatened and he honored that boundary. As a result of my learning and setting boundaries throughout his childhood, my son and i were able to have a close, loving relationship up until his death. he died clean and sober.
Thanks for the shares everybody. I'm offering a silent prayer most especially for those of you whose children have died. I've lost children through miscarriage many years ago and I can say I understand experientially only a small portion of the grief you've had to experience and learn to live with in your lifetime. Thank you for being here and being you. Your experience, your strength and your hope is a blessing to us all.
Oh islandtime me too! As long as I can't see him, he "isn't ignoring me" LOL! Is that why I kicked him out of the master bedroom and created a separate living space for my daughter and I? I even started using a separate entrance to and from the house so that I wouldn't have to walk past him and "be ignored". I never thought of it like this before but it's exactly right! And I'm laughed so hard at the "portable wall mobile", I have one too!
I love the way that you write. You make me smile even though we are both going through hard times.
Sorry G2B obviously not my area of expertise but thanks for bringing the idea of "walls" to my attention, I'd never really considered it before.
