The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Since no one else has replied, I will do my best. I only have a short time in recovery, three years and was just recently explained some of this stuff myself. Alcoholism is a family disease, it gets passed down from generation to generation and its not just drinking. It's behaviors, unless someone is working a program and in recovery..if they are just abstaining from alcohol, they are not sane because they still have all the old behaviors...they are just not drinking..Like in my family, my grandma was codependent and my grandfather a alcoholic, my mom was then a codependent and my dad a alchoholic, my brother,sister and myself all codependents, my brothers daughter a alcoholic, it's my understanding that most if not all alcoholics are codependent to some degree. My partner is dry, his son is dry and has never drank, his sons mom a full blown A, and I myself am just dry because I have a lot of behaviors of codependency and alcoholism. I am working on changing though, the only way is through working a program and willingness to change yourself. If any one with more experience than me cares to answer this a little better? Ps there are a lot of old articles on here if your key in dry drunk in the search bar at the top of the page. They should help enlighten you.
-- Edited by karma13 on Saturday 7th of September 2013 04:32:58 PM
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I needed these behaviors in my past they helped me survive I'm finding new and better ways to not just survive but thrive
I am somewhat new to al-anon. I have been married to an alcoholic for 10+ years, but I was in denial. I know there are still "alcoholic behaviors" that I want to look out for. In my CoDependency meetings they have a long list of characteristics that may help you identify yourself. Can any of you list for me the characteristics of the alcoholic. I also ask this because Neither my AH or myself have drinkers in our family, but someone in one of my al-anon meetings asked me if someone in my family was a "Dry" alcoholic. I had never considered that concept before that day. I think that thinking about that idea of "dry alcoholic" may shed some light into my/ our family situations. Would any of you have any reference material on that?
A " dry" drunk refers to one not working a program or not working it well. Dry may also decribe someone very early in recovery because they know so very little but often act like they know a lot. A dry drunk is irritable, moody, bossy, egotistical, controling, edgy, inflexible, and emotionally immature. This is my experience from being an alcoholic and knowing what I turn into without a strong recovery program and observing it in others.
Pinkchip named many of the characteristics. One other I have seen often is lying. Mine would lie when the truth was just as easy. Once a neighbor asked him if he wanted to go fishing in the morning. He told him he could not because he had some yards to mow. I asked him what yards he had to mow and he said he didn't have any. He just had not bought a fishing license yet. To ME the lie made no sense at al. But to him it made perfect sense to make up a lie.
Egotistical...controlling....moody....totally agree. Many also self centered. The world revolves around them..
But to be Dry means they aer not drinking but never did anything to change their personality traits.
A dry alcoholic could also be in a 12 step program just not working the steps .. just because the alcohol is removed doesn't mean the behaviors go away. The drinking is merely a symptom of much larger issues .. I like to think of it as the tip of an iceberg .. you see drinking however what's happening under it all is a whole other thing .. I've had RA friends say that it's a thinking disease as well.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I was struck by the post here about lying. I am not an A but group up in an alcoholic family and married an A. Until getting into alanon I lied little white lies just like the fishing license lie, illogical lies that were not important, and made no sense. I would hear myself telling such less and never understood why I felt the need to do such a thing. Now I see that it was all about my upbringing. In my family we never told the truth, for fear of reprisal, fear of shame, fear of humiliation. So I learned that a lie was always safer than the truth, even when the truth was harmless and benign. It is so interesting that I can now start to see how sick I have been all these years. It really is a family disease.
Oh, I truly believe it is a thinking disease that manifests itself with drinking which makes the thinking worse which makes the drinking worse....... and on it goes. And when the drinking stops, then the thinking is still there but magnified with the years of drinking. Their brain is changed. And the only way to get back to the beginning is with diving into the steps of AA (or something similar). Just stopping drinking doesn't help their brain change back. It just prevents more damage from being done. Pinkchip describes the many characteristics perfectly. I always heard it is "an egomaniac with an inferiority complex."
A dry drunk is irritable, moody, bossy, egotistical, controlling, edgy, inflexible, and emotionally immature. My hubby is all of those when he doesn't have enough meetings, or when he is with family for too long, or when he is hungry, angry, lonely or tired....or other things that I don't recognize. Sometimes he can be that way for months. Sometimes he gets to a meeting and can get out of it faster.
I have used the AlAnon program to QTIP. It is not my problem that he feels that way. I can have fun with the kids, laugh, play and stay on my side of the street. He can stay angry and I can walk away. It is too bad the grandkids call him "grumpy grandpa" and the kids don't count on him for anything. But it is his problem. To the outside world he can control his emotions and emotional outbursts. At his AA meetings the others would be surprised to hear me say any of this. But if you want to know the quality of anyone's recovery, ask their family.
A "Dry" drunk is a drunk...person or behavior without the presence of the chemical. They will slaunter, stumble, slur, loose concentration and the rest of it just as if they had consumed the chemical. Dry drunk is part of the cunning, powerful and baffling nature of alcohol. Each event "trains" the alcoholic (progressive) mind, body, spirit and emotions. I use to ask "has she been drinking" and was sure "no she hasn't" because I've been with here since she woke up. Dry drunk is the disease acting out. I can do the drunk routine on purpose...infact in humor did so yesterday morning when I got to work tired from a lack of sleep. I told some of the employees who were in our group "I still know how to do it" and we laughed. I was conscious while a dry drunk even is sub-conscious. Under the influence is Under the influence ...We will always be "under the influence". Every meeting I am at, every recovery event or practice I do; I know is because of the influence of alcoholism and drug addiction in my life. I will never not be under the influence. ((((hugs))))
In my experience my husband is a dry drunk when he behaves like an alcoholic but has not been drinking. What does an alcoholic behave like? Well everyone is different but I like Pinkchip's description. In my experience an alcoholic seems totally self centred and controlling (who wouldn't be when blotting out the rest of the world and loosing grip I guess ).
It seems to me to be awfully cruel to have 'dry drunk' happening to AH when he is trying to do the right thing. I hope that one day the rest of the world will be more interesting to him than self pity and the next drink. My best coping mechanism is to shrug it off and not to take anything personally. That said, my AH has been drinking for twelve years and we have been together for thirty years. There are lots of off-kilter behaviours that I can identify from earlier days, before drink had any influence. His grandfather was an alcoholic. The drink just seemed to amplify the odd bits and to kill his enjoyment of the good things in life.
I like the idea of looking at characteristics to see what fits and what doesn't, but it is easy to recognise things that are just my own reaction to extraordinary circumstances and it can be tempting to start wearing that particular trait as an identity badge - so I try to use the codependency lists as pointers more than definitions.
I count myself lucky to have read a marriage guidance article that discussed the positive values that' codependent' behaviour can contribute to a strong and healthy marriage - if I think about people I know with lovely marriages I can see that they care healthily and show concern about each other. It is not a crime to care for each other. Perhaps the danger is when I forget to care for myself and only give my own needs second place. So again, I take everything in moderation and try to look for balance.
My most successful trick when I'm trying to figure out who I am (as I climb out from under a pile of debris denial and years of non-reaction) is to try and remember myself as a young teenager - who was that girl, what did she want and like and what energised her? Is she still stirring in my soul? (You bet!) What would she like to do now? A lot less worrying is currently top of my list!!!
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