Am I manipulating? - Al-Anon Family Group

Bettina · ~*Service Worker*~

Am I manipulating?

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Golly. Your question seems to be an opportunity for you to check your motives for both personal ways of dealing with him while drinking and when he isn't. I have to say I felt very drawn to your honest response to his question. It was so simple and humble. "I don't know. I'm sorry."

On the question with regard to detachment, I have learned that one of the best tools for help in learning the meaning of detachment is the publication we receive in our newcomer packets on Detachment. When I'm in doubt, I pull that old, old heavy piece of paper from the front of my C2C reader and use it as a resource tool.

One of the paragraphs written on it: "Detachment is neither kind nor unkind. It does not imply judgment
or condemnation of the person or situation from which we are detaching. It is simply a means that allows us to separate ourselves from the adverse effects that another person's alcoholism can have upon our lives," is a good definition of detachment.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 22nd of August 2013 06:47:20 PM

hisimage · Veteran Member

Or wait, was I manipulating? I'm not sure now.

As I've said many times blah blah blah.. I am pretty new to this all. (the support detach part, not the AH) So I''m sorta trying to figure out how this all works.

When my AH is drinking, I am very cool, aloof to him but not rude. I just pull away from any attention that I give him. Listening half way , one worded answers.

On the days that he does not drink, I will engage. Bring up conversation and so forth. It can be hard not to, we run a business with many employees together.

In the back of my mind I am thinking to myself, geeze, does he not notice the difference in how I am when he is drinking? It triggered me because just this moment he said he was going to the market for fruit (non drinking day, I guess) I said something smug and he asked : "why are you being mean to me?" I thought for a second and was honest and said: "I don't know, I'm sorry."

Am I manipulating or trying to manipulate by "rewarding" him with my presence? LOL The question is serious tho. Is this the detachment people talk about?

Melly1248 · ~*Service Worker*~

I've grown kind of tired of changing personalities between his drinking and non-drinking days. That's just reacting to him. If I'm kind and lovely when he takes a sober day (usually when he has no money to drink) it's like I'm assuming that he has no control or understanding of his drunk behaviour at all. He's not a toddler. He spends a week stumbling around the house and screaming at me, then he's sober for 2 days and I'm supposed to pretend everything is great?
"Why are you being so mean to me?"
"Because your drunken behaviour has exhausted and saddened me and I've run out of kind words".

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

I remember my ex would say things like that and I think he said them to try to get me to feel bad so I would be nicer to him (so who was being manipulative?). In the beginning, if he accused me of being mean I would be sorry and do all the nice things that he liked to prove to him I wasn't being mean or wasn't mad at him. At the end I became matter-of-fact, saying things like, well, what did you expect when you..... The accusations stopped working to control my behavior with him.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

hisimage wrote:

In the back of my mind I am thinking to myself, geeze, does he not notice the difference in how I am when he is drinking? It triggered me because just this moment he said he was going to the market for fruit (non drinking day, I guess) I said something smug and he asked : "why are you being mean to me?" I thought for a second and was honest and said: "I don't know, I'm sorry."

Hi...there is a post that John wrote somewhere here.....it is a good one......also when I am really in detachment ala alanon, I am not even thinking or caring what the other "notices" or 'thinks" I am doing it for me, about me, to take care of me, to change MY situations.....just saying!!!

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

I made a goal, I wanted to love my husband drunk, sober, whatever. He has a disease, not his choice. The disease caused him to crave alcohol, so of course he drinks.

I looked at it as he is a very sick man and I love him so much. HP helped me to turn completely around, and even hold hands with him when he was drunk. I have shared this a lot. I knew that he was getting worse and worse, I wanted every moment I could have. If he got too much for me, I made our home so I had a sanctuary.

HE never took it personal or knew i was going to read or go outside to the horses or whatever to get away from his disease. I just lived my life. If he was being unreasonable, I would call him on it carefully, ME!? you are the one who pulled the extension cord and got me tangle in it you turkey! Al Anon taught me to keep it light.

To look at him with compassion. Now i look at all addicts with compassion. We all deserve to be loved just how we are. I was blessed to learn how to do that and not blame him for his disease.

sadly he has been my ex ah for many years. I do not remember how it felt to love him or he love me. sigh

hisimage · Veteran Member

Thank you all, for your wonderful and heartfelt answers. You have most definitely given me something to think about. sign...

The word has never been in my vocabulary until recently. My DD is in counseling and through her sessions has discovered that her "crush" is a master manipulator. she is pretty spot on and has called me on my stuff lately. She has great bitterness because of our A. So when she sees me tip toing it p*zzez her off. Off topic, because she is in counseling , she has been driven to research manipulators, and all other types of personalities. She is going to JR. college which is huge. Hates school. But, decided she wants to be a mentor to young women and young teens. She wants to keep them from feeling they need a boyfriend, relationship to be somebody. Just graduated last May... any howwwwww

John, to your questions: My question(s) to you would be how does "being like that" make YOU feel? What is YOUR payoff? Do YOU like being like that, does it make YOU feel empowered somehow? And one you already asked..."does your being present and available, or withdrawing yourself equal a "punishment and reward system"? How well is it working for YOU?

It doesn't work for me, it isn't even how I want to be... I want to scream at the top of my lungs, loud enough for the block to hear: "I'M SO EFFIN TIRED OF EVERY.SINGLE.MOMENT wondering what is going to happen. Get you're stuff together before I flip my biscuit, that is really not something you want to see!!" But, I don't. Because I don't want to him to know that he's got my emotions so tangled. That is another story about me. I've got a challenge when it comes to people know that they've angered me. It's about me thinking it gives them power.

So, the good thing is: I'm doing "homework" on step 1 and I'm learning quite a bit about myself. Much more than I'd like to know at my age of, errr 48.

So maybe I am manipulating. But I think I'm manipulating my very own self.

-- Edited by hisimage on Friday 23rd of August 2013 11:19:22 AM

-- Edited by hisimage on Friday 23rd of August 2013 11:20:57 AM

John · ~*Service Worker*~

I got a kick out of Melly stating she was tired of "changing personalities based on whether her A was drinking or not". In the 80's and early 90's this was called.. "Multiple Personality Disorder" now it's called Dissociative Disorder. LMAO! One minute the true, core personality is there, the next it's gone.. inside, hiding, judging, scared, being pissed off, making plans to carry out some form of retaliation against someone.

I missed many good moments with my A because of my own behavior and attitudes, until I learned what detachment really meant and how to apply it in my daily life, for my benefit as well as for the benefit of the alcoholic. It really has nothing at all to do with the alcoholic, and everything to do with me and my well being.

When I have to ask if I am being manipulative, the answer is always YES. We tend to know when we are being true to ourselves and/or others. My asking about it, was usually my way of trying to get someone to validate some ill thought or behavior I was engaging in, in order to justify it.

You stated, "When my AH is drinking, I am very cool, aloof to him but not rude. I just pull away from any attention that I give him. Listening half way , one worded answers."

My question(s) to you would be how does "being like that" make YOU feel? What is YOUR payoff? Do YOU like being like that, does it make YOU feel empowered somehow? And one you already asked..."does your being present and available, or withdrawing yourself equal a "punishment and reward system"? How well is it working for YOU?

I spent a life time changing hats, being someone I wasn't, so I could adapt to a wide variety of people and situations. Today, thanks to this program, I get to be who I am 24/7. I don't have to disguise my true self to appease any one else, nor do I have to do it to obtain the attention of any one else. And being me is comfortable, doesn't take nearly as much work, and not having to vacillate back and forth with all my hats, doesn't make me feel exhausted, drained all the time any more.

It sounds to me like you are actually manufacturing your own misery, discontent, and there isn't much of a payoff for it. The alcoholic goes on about his/her business for the rest of the day, and you get stuck with you for the rest of the day. For me, most times, that really sucked!

As others have already mentioned, I recently wrote a post regarding "Detachment With Love". I too would suggest you read it.

And on a funny note... If someone with multiple personality disorder attempts to commit suicide should they be charged with attempted murder for jeopardising, and putting everyone on the inside in fear for their lives too? smile

John

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

When I had a hard time figuring out if it was me or him, I would guage it according to if it was "inappropriate behavior". That way it had nothing to do with my anger about drinking and drunkenness but everything about the way I was being treated.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.