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Hi there, this is going to be a long first post...Hang in there!
AH is finally in AA (30 days sober on Monday!) I went to my first face to face alanon meeting last Tues, and am going to try another this Thurs.
I have codependency issues from far before meeting my DH. I detached about 6 months ago from him, ultimately, I think, leading to his seeking recovery.
My biggest issues right now are detatching from my 18yo daughter. She's not A. She is extremely manipulative. I recently let her move back home.
She's been in and out of our home several times in the last 2 years, spending most of the last 6 years at her dad's. In Feb. she graduated early, and was living with dad, had a good job, college plans, etc. Then she got arrested for shoplifting and lost her job due to the charges. Came to live here in April. We helped her find another job, drove her to and from the job until she saved some $, then helped buy a car and get insurance.
Within a week of getting the car, she pitched a fit (I don't even remember what it was about) moved out of my house to live with 'friends'. Within 2 months, she lost her job, quit her PTI course (pretrial intervention to wipe the shoplifting from her record) sold her car, lost her cellphone and later the friends lost their apartment, so she had nowhere to go. (her father won't answer phone calls or texts anymore. He just wiped his hands when she turned 18.)
When she came home she was wearing three silver rings she took from my jewelry box.
She's been here 9 days. Within three days, there was a major blowout over her getting mad at 6yo brother and throwing a shoe at his head while I was outside talking to AH.
Yesterday, she told me "I deleted my facebook...No, really I just blocked you because I posted some stuff I didn't want you to see"I have two FB accounts. Her profile is public. Inappropriate photos of her in my house in her stepdad's camo jacket.
Today it was showering in my bathroom, using my toiletries, and wearing my clothes after I've asked her to respect my privacy, and stay out of my bedroom/bathroom.
Tonight AH and I went out for the first time sober. She and 16yo son babysat 6yo for us. She didn't answer any calls or texts while we were gone. I was worried crazy.
-I feel I need to put a lock on my bedroom door. I hate that I have to do this in MY home.
-She wants me to go to her trial with her on Aug 14th for the shoplifting. I really don't want to. I will, but I don't feel like I should have to.
-She wants me to take her to look for a job, and take her back and forth again. I don't really have time for this, or the extra $ for gas, either.
-When she's around, it seems she's got money to get her nails done, pay a cell phone bill, etc., while we struggle with the extra electric, food, gas and time it takes for her to be here.
It's 4:21AM, and I'm up, thinking about this. I need to sleep. I need peace in my home (we run a business from our home, so I don't even have work as an 'escape', because she's here).
I am struggling bad with this. She is very good at bringing up ugly things from the past, and it cuts like a dull salty knife every time.
What if I have to kick her out? More than likely, eventually it will come to this unless she gets help/changes her attitude/quits stepping on boundries. I'm behind on work, behind on housework, behind on homeschooling 6yo, I'm stressed out, and ready to pull my hair out, and it hasn't even been two weeks!
Any tips on detaching from an adult child who is living with you, while there are other children at home, and dealing with a newly sober AH?
Hope you get more Alanon meetings under your belt, since you have only been to a few.
This type of behavior from your daughter warrants boundaries, which were never put into place I fear when she was growing up.
I agree with Grateful, there may more be going on than you realize, (like drugs).
If she were my daughter, there would be a time limit for her to get a job and move out. Within that time limit if she hasn't gotten a job or arranged for other living space, she still needs to move. Also, there would be no coming back, Letting her know that she is responsible for her actions. she is a thief and not to be trusted. She is not a good example for your other children.
You need to find your sanity and serenity and practice the tools of Alanon. With boundaries put in place with hope and HP , your daughter will learn to respect you. You have a lot on your plate, and Alanon is the medicine you need. Best and hugs Bettina
-- Edited by Bettina on Sunday 4th of August 2013 02:07:56 PM
-- Edited by Bettina on Sunday 4th of August 2013 02:09:04 PM
I have experience with this to some degree but my loved one was using drugs/alcohol. Considering all the acting out this young adult is doing, I can't help but wonder if there is an underlying drug use if not alcohol use. I couldn't live with this. I asked my loved one to seek treatment in NA/AA or leave my house. Left my house with some help on my part.
I've also been a volunteer in shelters. Age group - 17 to 30. There were house rules that guests were made aware of before it was agreed for them to live at the shelter. Consequences were known, too. If broken, the person was asked to move out. They were also allowed to move back in to try again. Some tried the same behaviors you are describing the first time they lived with us and were asked to leave. Others stayed and worked on their lives. They had to be looking and proving they were looking for work. Drugs and alcohol were an immediate out consequence. Refusing to follow house rules were an immediate out consequence. Missing curfew was an immediate out consequence. Violence and disrespect towards houseparents and other guests was also an immediate out consequence.
Unless working or sick, guests were expected to be at meals, to talk about their days with house parents, clean up after themselves, and do chores posted on the refrigerator in the morning by a scheduled time each day. No excuses were made for behavior even though we knew some of their lives had been difficult. It didn't help them. House parents saw that expecting the house guests to do what they needed to do was in their best interest. That including schooling and a job. Guests also had to turn in most of their wages to save towards their apartment which was given to them when they left the house. The rest of their money was given to them to spend on themselves. Housing, food, laundry and staff care was free. The rest was expected of the guest to do. If they did what was in their power to do, their stay at the shelter could be increased. If not, two weeks stay max.
I do hope you are in Al-Anon? Others will post about it. I just wanted to share my experience with you. Quite a challenge you have on your hands.
Al-Anon applied will be a big help to you.
Thanks so much for your reply grateful!
I went to my first Al-Anon meeting last Tuesday, and will be going to at least one this week on Thursday. There are only two face-to-face meetings close enough to get a sitter and go while working around my husband's AA meetings. Last weekend, I checked out the only book I could find at our library on alcoholic families..."Codependent No More", and the first 100 pages sound like a biography of my life. I got the Al-Anon works book from the meeting last week, and have been reading a lot.
Welcome to MIP! Glad you have found us and found your way into these rooms!
This is NOT ADVISE, just a brief "been there, done that, outgrew the T shirt" kind of thing.
Our daughter is a full blown alcoholic and has just recently "moved out" of our house at our request/threat, whatever you want to call it. She has been bouncing back and forth for 12 years, but I did not have Al Anon in my life until three years ago. I was still rather new to Al Anon when we invited her and her son back again to our home last year. BIG MISTAKE!!! Got herself fired from 2 jobs, a new Dui and arrest for assault. No money for her son's sneakers but she has an I Phone, I Pad and constantly got her nails and hair done, and not on the cheap, either. Never did a thing around the house except complain. For 12 years, my husband and I have slept with our bedroom locked and never leave the house without locking the bedroom. Checkbook and credit cards under lock and key. I can identify with the attitude of entitlement your daughter has as we lived with it for years. NOTHING in our home was "off limits" if she needed it or wanted it for any reason, she took it. Money for gas, insurance, excuses galore. Anyway, we had it with her after the final boundary was crossed. We are in the process of moving to another state (not because of her, but because of taxes and weather). But if she was still with us, we could not do a move like this.
As you will find in Al Anon, change has to begin with you and nothing will change if nothing changes. You will learn that you will drive yourself nuts trying to "make over" the other person. Can't happen. You have your hands really full with your spouse in recovery and with a home business and a little one. For me, Al Anon has given me back my sanity. I still wobble a bit, but I am getting stronger every day. Believe me, you are not alone in this.
Thank you, LB. It does help to know I'm not alone.
I can *NOT* do another week of this, let alone another year or twelve.
I know that I am powerless over her life and decisions. I'm trying to sort out now where my lines should be with her. Grateful's post helped a lot with minimums and where the tough love needs to start.
As I went on and on with my son and not doing anything but enabling him I finally set some boundaries. Boundaries that he abides by or there would be consequences. In the most part he did what I wanted until recently. He crossed the boundaries big time and now he has to understand I ( his MOM ) will not let it go anymore. He will take the pain for his actions towards me.
Say what you mean, mean what you say but don't say it mean.
Set them and keep them...that is the only way for them to understand you mean business.
Keep coming back my friend because you are not alone here.
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
few more meetings , more reading more implementing and you will be on your way to a much saner life.
sorry there was such confusion bringing your daughter up, I know how that goes. I have lots of friends who were single Mothers, One of the challenges of today. My brother went thru it with his son, even though he wasnt an addict, he was starting to go down the wrong path and the Mother let him do whatever he wanted, more or less to get back at my brother for divorcing her.
He took the bull by the horns and though he never went to an alanon meeting, he got real tough with his son, since the Mother was not parenting. Today he is a son to be proud of. I understand Dr. Phil has a new book out. "LIfe Code", my brother was telling me about. I don't listen to everything Dr.Phil has to say, I know he is a TV Doctor, but I do agree with him when it comes to the kids . Especially if your daughter is not doing drugs or drinking, she is just acting out.
Keep coming back Justme, there is hope. Glad you have gained the confidence to carry on. This program works.
Hugs, Bettina
-- Edited by Bettina on Sunday 4th of August 2013 08:54:19 PM
Thanks for the feedback. When you get to Al-Anon meetings, you will be made aware of Conference Approved Literature that you can purchase there. There is also free literature that will be extremely helpful to you. The Merry-Go-Round named denial has been a life saver to me at various times throughout my experience with my son in the early stages of realizing his disease and its manifestations. To my knowledge, I am the only person in a family affected by alcoholism who is and has been in recovery. Al-Anon is a major help to us whether or loved ones seek sobriety or not. Outside folks tend to buy into the notion that the best help you can give your loved one is the help we'd offer someone who isn't affected by this disease. Alcoholism affects everyone. Learning more and applying what you're learning helps to arrest, but not cure this disease. Glad you're going to the meetings. They will be a big help to you with your husband, your daughter and the rest of your family. Most importantly, they will help YOU. We forget sometimes that we count, too.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 5th of August 2013 08:13:49 AM
@Cathy- Just knowing I'm not alone in this means so, so much to me.
@Bettina, Any boundaries that may have been put in place when she was young were thrown out the window during the ages of 12-16 when she lived with her dad and step-mom and all contact with me was cut off by them. Any boundaries I've tried to put in place since then have been met with a flounce full of drama, hence the back and forth.
Tomorrow she is going for a job interview. I'm hoping to have my thoughts together enough to put a plan of boundaries together and approach her with the "Mean what you say. Say what you mean. Don't say it mean." mentality.
Detaching is very hard with her. She knows were my buttons are, and it usually ends up in - for lack of a better term - a shitstorm.
I'm looking forward to this Thursday's Al-Anon meeting.
I'm continuing to read the Al-Anon book.
I'll be checking into some online meetings in the meantime.
This thread has helped me build the courage and strength to move forward with strong, tough love. Also, it's given me some direction on where to begin with my work on myself.
Just typing the first post lifted a tremendous weight by getting it all out, and being able to re-read exactly where we are with everything.
When you start having a good program in place for you, the fear and anger will fade in time. Read as many post you can read on here because it also helps so much to read others stories.
This is a we group of people helping each other cope and learn how to take care of us.
Detaching in time comes easier as time passes. 10 months ago I couldn't keep a boundary if you paid me a million dollars.
(((( hugs )))) and keep coming back
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Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth
Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.
Welcome Just me and you're doing the right stuff for you as your husband is doing for himself. Getting there is a learning process...stick with the learning and practice, practice, practice what you learn. You won't ever do it perfect...some times it will seem better than and some times less than and always it will be different than what was done to get you into trouble. When I was growing up in program I took the direction from my sponsor(ship) to "just do it"...no matter if I was confused or angry or depressed or whatever...feel the feeling and do the work anyway and I did with both my alcoholic/addict wife and son. It was different with either somewhat and mostly the same so I practiced, practiced, practiced and fine tuned in meetings and with face to face sponsor meetings. The program isn't the normal way of living it is the way of living when you live and love and are affected by someone affected by compulsive addiction. Do it any way because doing it my way didn't work.
When I did it anyway with my son and I relate to your experience I made an appointment with him to "talk" and I knew that he knew and then didn't know everything about what I was going to talk about. He knew as I knew that he was drinking, using and screwing up rather than be responsible. So he kept the appointment and at the end of a simple talk about what "I" was going to do for me he was face with what he was going to have to do for him because I wasn't going to fill that gap. He was 19 and the door was open to his world and future without any projection on how successful he might be. That was years ago and he stopped drinking and using and has not stopped making bad decisions for himself. He isn't clean or sober as I know it. I hang with lots of clean and sober people...I am a "double" a member of both programs. His house is a wreck, his life is a wreck, his family has split to the four geographical directions and it is as it should be...the consequence of his choices and his wife's choices. Watching their relationship and the movement in their family is like watching a shark attack frenzy and no one takes responsibility for their own consequences. My current wife and I didn't cause this, we cannot control it and we will not cure it or attempt any of that. We have a personal "In-Basket" with God which we don't try to overload; however we do use it as necessary.
You're in a good place, a safe place, a place of major support and ESH. You have already had great feedback...stuff I personally have solid confidence in myself. Please keep coming back. (((((hugs)))))
You guys are awesome. I believe I have found my Al-Anon home on the web, here. I sat in on the chat meeting here tonight, read some more both here in the forums and in print.
Today has been a good day, full of promise for a better future for not just me, but our family.
-I feel I need to put a lock on my bedroom door. I hate that I have to do this in MY home.
-She wants me to go to her trial with her on Aug 14th for the shoplifting. I really don't want to. I will, but I don't feel like I should have to.
-She wants me to take her to look for a job, and take her back and forth again. I don't really have time for this, or the extra $ for gas, either.
-When she's around, it seems she's got money to get her nails done, pay a cell phone bill, etc., while we struggle with the extra electric, food, gas and time it takes for her to be here.
It's 4:21AM, and I'm up, thinking about this. I need to sleep. I need peace in my home (we run a business from our home, so I don't even have work as an 'escape', because she's here).
I am struggling bad with this. She is very good at bringing up ugly things from the past, and it cuts like a dull salty knife every time.
What if I have to kick her out? More than likely, eventually it will come to this unless she gets help/changes her attitude/quits stepping on boundries. I'm behind on work, behind on housework, behind on homeschooling 6yo, I'm stressed out, and ready to pull my hair out, and it hasn't even been two weeks!
Any tips on detaching from an adult child who is living with you, while there are other children at home, and dealing with a newly sober AH?
Hye Just..
I have a manipulative daughter too...no law troubles, but she hurts me ea. time I would put myself in her way.....passive aggressive stuff
I have detached from her....distanced myself
Why go to her trial?? if you don't want to??? why go???? guilt??? SHE is the one who did the crime, not you....
as to $$ for her cell and nails and not for you???? why let it continue??? I know...as a mom you think you owe her the world.....NOT.....you don't owe her....you gave her life, you raised her up, did your best, as far as i can see you are loving mom, but where does being a loving mom mean you gotta be her victim???? and victimization can happen but if it is the same victimization, we become volunteers rather than victims
I dont' let my younger daughter use me hurt me or manipulate me anymroe....yea, I love her, but I am not her victim....she only wants me when she needs me so I respond at MY convenience, not hers, give if I want to, don't give if I don't want to.............she could care less about me.....I love her but I will not be her victim...b/c if I continue letting her use me than I am a volunteer
nothing changes if nothing changes......I would get her out.....let her make her own way, get a job, her own place, THEN she will learn the lessons she needs to learn.............boundaries are internal, we have to set boundaries for ourselves, not expecting them to change, but the boundar is for us to change us and OUR lot in life....my boundary w/younger daughter was to just tell her that if she didn't treat me better, I would back off, distance myself.....behaviour didn't change, so I backed off and distanced myself.....really I am happier and less stressed w/out her.....I am calmer and more peaceful not being around her
its sad, but its the way it is and I just decided to accept it and move on.......as long as you let her stay and use you, she will never ever learn her lessons and grow up......in a way you are robbing her of learning the hard lesson of life which one of them is....give and take.......and what we give to life , we get out of life.........as long as you let this go on, she will think she has no problems b/c you are absorbing all HER stuff............NOT your problem.....also throwing the past at you is another form of guilting you and manipulating you.....
JUST saying.............I do hope you continue to work your program and focus on you and your happiness.....get the steps and a sponsor to work them w/you and get into as many meetings as you can......I would make myself focus on ME and my happiness and limit or eliminate that which separates me from my serenity..............Good luck.......I know its hard, but if she is to ever grow up, mama is gonna have to "push her out of the nest" and its funny....you will watch her learn to fly b/c she will have no choice BUT to learn to fly............
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Thanks so much for your reply grateful! I went to my first Al-Anon meeting last Tuesday, and will be going to at least one this week on Thursday. There are only two face-to-face meetings close enough to get a sitter and go while working around my husband's AA meetings. Last weekend, I checked out the only book I could find at our library on alcoholic families..."Codependent No More", and the first 100 pages sound like a biography of my life. I got the Al-Anon works book from the meeting last week, and have been reading a lot.
Yes, it's huge change. :/
sounds like U got a good start on recovering you...codependency has to be worked on one day at a time.....I think it is a life time thing, but we can arrest it in recovery.......and yes, Melodie BEattie put out some great books...they really helped me when I was working the steps.....GOOD job....U can do this........with the husband and the daughter it is quite a load, but the bottom line is you need to let them go...let them learn their own lessons, walk their own path as you walk yours....if they all are compatible??? great....if not??? it will be OK b/c you will be stronger in you.........great work
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
"Detaching is very hard with her. She knows were my buttons are, and it usually ends up in - for lack of a better term - a shitstorm."
Mine does to...so i took those buttons away from her.....now she has nothing to press b/c I set the boundary on what I will accept and tolerate, and what I will not....I also keep enough distance to keep those buttons near me...not "pushable" by her.....I took her "toy" away from her......not out of revenge or a "back at ya" but to protect me and I feel soo much better...I love her but at a distance enough for her not to be able to manipulate and yea, push my buttons.......
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
Guilt is a big button our kids can push. As a Mom, I have discovered that the guiltier I feel, the more my kids can manipulate me. I get angry. Then, feel guilty. I no longer feel guilty about my parenting, the husband I chose, the marriage that ended. I don't feel guilty because it didn't do me any good. It doesn't do my kids any good. That doesn't mean I haven't learned new ways to handle old issues or that I don't need to apologize sometimes, but it does mean that its not very easy to manipulate me anymore. I have to wrestle with decisions I've made that are on the tough love side - no mother wants to be the person who has to take her child to the doctor for shots or close the door gently on their wants and sometimes needs when they're adults. And - some of what my kids might hold against me - they'll learn when they have kids of their own were necessary for their growth. Most of the time, I check my motives before I act in relationship to my children. I check things out with people who seem wise to me.
I pray about decisions that are difficult. Then, I act. To me - that's love - to wrestle in the dark of not knowing and doing what seems to be the most loving thing I can do at the time. If later I learned I was mistaken, then I can make an amend. I don't have to feel guilty about anything I do that I genuinely believe was the most loving thing I could do at the time. And, I know I will never, ever, ever parent or love my kids perfectly. Even with the best of intentions and the most loving choice I can make, my kids can still choose to see my action as something other than I intended. That's their right. That's their choice. I have no control over it.
Jerry- My way doesn't work, either. I am learning so much from reading here and in books. I am beginning to set boundaries with her a little at a time, as things come up. I'm not quite ready to sit down and "lay down the laws", because I'm not real straight on what the laws are going to be, yet. I'm slowly creating a list of dos and don'ts and will sit her down for a talk when it's time. I want to "mean what I say, and say what I mean, without being mean". <--love that quote!
Neshema - I have been working on not being anyone's "volunteer victim" for awhile (years) now. It's a recurring theme in my life that I am determined to break this time. You give wonderful advice on breaking free of her manipulation and guarding my buttons that she loves to play with. :) Thank you! Detaching from her is do-able but very hard because all the while she was at her dad's I wanted so badly to have her here with me. Even though I knew she wasn't being mistreated, I knew that she wasn't being taught how to live. Now that she's here (which may only be because she can't go back there, and doesn't have anywhere else to go right now), I need to keep my head on straight so that the dependency she has been allowed for so long can be broken.
Today AH took her for an interview, and we'll know Wednesday if she has a job. I pray she does. The sooner she starts work, the sooner she's not here as much, and the sooner she can get out. Honestly, I don't think she's been very well prepared for adulthood or living on her own. There weren't many rules at dad's house coming through her teens, and the more I'm around her, the more I see that she's much less mature than her 16 year old brother.
Grateful- Wonderful insight on guilt. I'm also really hard on myself, and then I loosen up on the kids, which makes me angry at them for not staying in line, which brings on more guilt. What a vicious game of chasing our tails! I have always tried to keep the past in the past, the future in tomorrow, and my focus on today. My kids know this. I have preached that to them, and how important it is for us to focus on now because we can't change yesterday. The older two were there for most of my mistakes. That's why my daughter knows the buttons. The past was hard. I did make lousy decisions. BUT I can't do anything about that, now. All I can do is today. I'm going to try and make the best today I can, and I'm going to start with me.
Today I spent most of the day creating in my workroom, which is great for my soul (and our pocketbook!) I spent the evening with some friends, which always makes for big smiles and hearty laughs. I said "no" to daughter's request for a ride to the beach tomorrow - without guilt -
AND today is 30 days sober for my husband!!! So proud of him!
Each day I'm feeling stronger, more confident and more capable of tackling all that I've been handed. All of you in this thread have lifted my spirits, and made my todays a little bit easier to handle. For that I cannot thank you enough.
I had to be told time and time again, that if I didn't change, why would my child be motivated to change? I kept doing the same things, saying the same things over and over, and was really pissed off that I wasn't getting any different results!
I will stay focused on my own experience, and share with you a truth that someone had to share with me. 18 years old? In this day and age, is not an adult. It might be the beginning of gaining some legal perimeters, but 18 years old is a CHILD. Nothing adult about it. Based on my personal experience, what I have personally witnessed over the years is that 95% of 18 yr old males have a 15 yr old mentality, and 90% of 18 yr old females have 16 yr old mentality. In short, the majority are mentally retarded for their chronologic age. At best they are barely testing the water of the ADULT swimming pool of life at 18 years old. There are many factors or reasons that come into play here. Social development is a big one. Often based on what they see and hear from others in their age group. We can't expect our child to develop into well rounded adults at the age of 18, if they are running with others who disrespect authority/parents/adults, take no responsibility for themselves, blame everyone else for their stay in life, are not held fully accountable for themselves as they grow into adulthood, and are so easily influenced by the behavior of others at that age. Stealing, lying and manipulating, guilt tripping, shaming parents, etc, are learned behaviors and unfortunately our children are in class all day with other mentally retarded children when attitudes and behaviors are put against their chronological ages. And yet we want to define them as adults. Expect them to act like adults. When they are more suited for childrens pool, then the real adult swimming pool of life at this age. Media plays a role in this situation as well as their associations of others of the same age group. Our societal movements towards change (including but not limited to banning God from schools), an abundance of video games where you score points for doing really bad stuff, news exposure of the celebrities, popular and wealthy gaining notoriety for their misconducts and seemingly getting away with it. The political arena that rarely gets solid news coverage for anything good an individual politician does, will get volumes of media coverage (attention) for the wrongs committed by individuals. Social media, such as Facebook, cellphone texting, etc, reduces the actual development of healthy communication skills and verbal exchanges that allow todays younger population to develop healthy problem solving skills. Today, they just click their mouse and the opposition is un-friended, thus deleted.
Now having put all that on the table, let's add to it being raised by a co-dependent mother and alcoholic father in law, (and possible bio-father?) through their most formulative years of growing up, where the emotional whirlwind is almost always in the air, and then we sit back and wonder why they are so immature, irresponsible, unaccountable, rebellious and defiant. Why don't they just grow up and act like adults?
Sometimes we have to give them a break and realize that they too are doing the best they can each day, just like we are. Given all the factors that came and will come into play in the stream of life that leads to the adult swimming pool.
In my personal opinion now... taking and going with her to court is not much different than changing her diapers after she crapped on herself as a baby. Let her learn how to change her own diapers and she will likely not want to crap on herself so much in the future. Let her be broke, and stop picking her baby bottle up off the floor she threw it on, and she will likely learn that job hunting is really hard, and after she finds the next job on her own, she will likely value it more than the last one. When she climbs out of the crib as a baby will from time to time (leave the house without consent) lock it up and let her know that she is out for 72 hours, and then letting her back in will only be considered, not guaranteed, and she will likely stop climbing out of her crib and sneaking off in the middle of the night.
We don't live in a world of the old school values, and traditions any more, so to get the job done that is ahead of us with our children might mean we have to step out of our own box and use untraditional methods to get the point across and help them truly grow up.
Most important is that any detaching you do, do it from a place of love. Anger, resentment, etc, is easily detected by children.... so is love.
Just my two cents worth
John
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" And what did we gain? A new life, with purpose, meaning and constant progress, and all the contentment and fulfillment that comes from such growth."
Wow...So in the middle of the night she had someone come pick her up and take her to the beach (to see her boyfriend). I just found out, so I'm not sure what to think. She knows sneaking out isn't okay. She sent me a text at 4:45 to tell me where she went.
My gut reaction is to just tell her I'm done, she can come and get her things.
Detaching, detaching....I have yoga this morning. Hopefully find a better center this morning. OHM...
Thank you, John for the helpful insights. I like the baby metaphor, very fitting. I agree with the issues she has faced growing up. I can only start here, today, and am determined not to be angry with her over this, but to use it as a catalyst for true change in my life an way of reacting. What she decides to do with my changes is her decision.
I like the idea of 72 hours lockdown if she leaves. I'm also going to let her find her own way home. The beach is at least an hour in and an hour back, and this week is a VERY busy one for us. It would be very inconvenient for my husband or I to have to go pick her up.
I'm thinking in order for everyone involved to be clear, I need to make a list of house rules. Maybe call a family meeting to be sure everyone is clear on what is expected of them, and the consequences of crossing those boundaries. I know I won't be able to think of and cover everything that *could* happen, but it would give us all a place to start.
Thoughts on that? Other ideas on beginning this change on the right foot?
grateful2be wrote; For example, I don't hang "No smoking signs" at our place of business. Nobody ever lights up in our place. A few might light up outside (not children/teens who already know they can't do that - its illegal) and that's fine with me. If I put a no smoking sign up - I'd have 20 people a day testing that. No thanks. That has worked for me for many years.
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yep, and I'd be one of those trying to sneak in with a lit smoke.... just because I like to try to get away with being a little bit bad from time to time! LOL
Funny John: I also don't hang "No Trespassing" signs or "No Parking" signs or "No Hunting Signs" together with "No Cursing, chewing gum, or spitting on the sidewalks" signs. I think I might hang a sign that says, "No donations! I repeat - No donations!" Wonder what that might bring to us?
-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 6th of August 2013 04:22:47 PM
I work with a lot of kids and teens. They've taught me a lot. One of the things they've taught me is just how much they act out when they don't feel safe. They don't feel safe when there are no known boundaries in place and no known consistent consequences prior to their testing the limits. Although you wouldn't do this with your family, every time we bring our group together we go over the boundaries/rules and the consequences. Major acting out includes a major consequence that we don't allow the children to blame us for. We say "If you do this, you are choosing to..." Then we add for newcomers, "We love and respect you too much not to allow you to experience the consequence you have chosen." Then, we do what we say without nagging, reminders, etc. The repeated boundaries and the consequences are their reminders. Amazing how orderly things can be with large groups of children and a ratio of adults to children that keep us all present to the children and uniform in our response to both positive and not so positive behaviors. When a large percentage of the children are acting out, I see that as an adult problem. We are not uniform and therefore our children no longer feel safe. We call a meeting and go over the issues. We make plans on how we are going to deal with whatever issues present themselves and do it. Peace resumes once the adults have their acts together - together.
I've also learned that putting a boundary in place that I don't have the energy to carry through with others results in chaos for me and for our groups. So, I put nothing in place that I don't want to deal with to see what happens since that boundary is going to be tested. For example, I don't hang "No smoking signs" at our place of business. Nobody ever lights up in our place. A few might light up outside (not children/teens who already know they can't do that - its illegal) and that's fine with me. If I put a no smoking sign up - I'd have 20 people a day testing that. No thanks. That has worked for me for many years.
grateful2be wrote; For example, I don't hang "No smoking signs" at our place of business. Nobody ever lights up in our place. A few might light up outside (not children/teens who already know they can't do that - its illegal) and that's fine with me. If I put a no smoking sign up - I'd have 20 people a day testing that. No thanks. That has worked for me for many years.
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yep, and I'd be one of those trying to sneak in with a lit smoke.... just because I like to try to get away with being a little bit bad from time to time! LOL
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" And what did we gain? A new life, with purpose, meaning and constant progress, and all the contentment and fulfillment that comes from such growth."
Funny John: