How to prepare your kids for their dads death - Al-Anon Family Group

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

How to prepare your kids for their dads death

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

PS..I know I might be missing elements of the story and situation so take what makes sense..and prayers for you, him, and the kids.

Another bit that I wanted to add - this is from my own history of drinking and using and from what I experienced with my ex who was also an alcoholic. Probably one of the worst things I did, and I did it frequently in towards the end of my drinking career was threaten to commit suicide. I threatened that many times and had it been heard by cops, they would have had no choice but to hospitalize me as that is the law basically. I think I made threats (even clutching pill bottles) a few times. I never wanted to really kill myself but I said it several times for affect and that was horrible to do to others. Some of them I don't remember cuz I did it in a black out. My ex actually did take a bunch of pills and I had to call the police when he called his mom to say "goodbye"...he was hospitalized. He didn't take enough pills that he would have killed himself but still... My point is that suicidal threats are serious, but it is also part of the disease and people who drink and use to addictive levels are typically very broken and unhappy people. Many, many of them wind up in recovery/rehab/inpatient after suicide attempts that are really cries for help. The most serious risk with a substance abuse that makes those statements or gestures is that they will be so drunk or high that they will actually kill themself by accident when they only mean to take a bunch of pills to get attention or something like that...So again - I'm reading that this is what is going on and I could be missing large elements of the picture. But - I just wanted to share so you don't get held hostage by a behavior that is frequent for substance abusers (albeit still serious).

-- Edited by pinkchip on Monday 29th of July 2013 10:54:59 PM

4my2kids · Member

Yes that was so hard to type, but its coming to that. Even ex's mom thinks so.

I will be getting daughter (10) into counseling, hopefully this week. But I fear their dads end is near and I just don't know how to prepare her (son is 21 and in army out of state and I don't want to upset him with things he can't control so he doesn't even know of dads current state of being right now).

Ex has already been taken to hospital by cops for suicide watch... On father day of this year.

Daughter will not see her dad unless/until he can be sober and in his right mind.

4my2kids · Member

Please help! Do I even mention to my kids that their dad is very sick mentally right now? That he can't think right and is depressed?

I am just at a loss as to how I am suppose to handle this!

Tonight ex's mom text me and said "I fear he wo t be with us much longer" ... So it's not just me thinking this!

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi. It appears you are feeling pretty unsure and fearful right now? I'm sorry things seem so scary and burdensome to you in the not knowing what to do in relationship to your daughter. Are you in Al-Anon?

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

The counseling sounds like a good idea. It would probably help if you could go to a counselor too, so you have ongoing support on how to handle the situation with your kids.

I don't have any kind of professional expertise in this. But I know that my dad was in a similar situation when I was a kid. My mother told me too much. It terrified me. I would have appreciated being shielded from it more. I think saying, "Your dad may die soon" just induces an extreme anxiety and dread and helplessness. Telling her does not mean that she can do anything about it. I personally would not tell her. Based on my experience. I'd just say -- if she brings up the subject or if it comes up naturally -- something like, "Your dad has a lot of challenges right now. We're praying that he finds a smooth way through them. He's not in a state where he can see his family right now. Be assured that I will always take care of you and that we'll always be okay." The last part is the most important part. That's the part that my mother didn't include. That scared me more than anything. A kid doesn't have any way to take care of herself. So she needs to know that a parent is still on the job.

If the worst happens and her dad does not make it, you can break the news gently in a way that I'm sure a counselor will help with. But my experience advises not borrowing trouble ahead of time. I know the anxiety must be bad for you. I hope you have lots of support. Meetings, counselor, friends, Al-Anon buddies, sponsor? But my experience suggests it's best to shield your children from this unless the worst happens. Hugs.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi 4mykids

I am so very sorry that your husband's disease has progressed this far. My husband had stopped drinking 5 years before he was diagnosed with a untreatable illness. My son was 14 at the time . We both told him about the diagnosis and enlisted the help of a therapist.

I believe it is important to let the children know that their's dad condition is very serious just in case they would like to visit or write him a card.

You and your family are in my thoughts

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Of course alanon meetings and a sponsor would help. I do think the best you can do is a day at a time with those types of things. For a 10 year old...well she knows he's sick it seems. I might keep it at that and leave the rest up to your hp. His mom is terrified and maybe trying to get support from you. As hard as it is, I would try to stick with facts. All suicidal threats are serious but most of them are just that...threats from sick and depressed people. Not to say it cant or won't happen. I guess I'm just saying you only need to cope with what is. Preparing for uncertain catastrophe is not going to be healthy for you or your kids. If he had cancer or something like that...it would be another story.

4my2kids · Member

pinkchip wrote:

Of course alanon meetings and a sponsor would help. I do think the best you can do is a day at a time with those types of things. For a 10 year old...well she knows he's sick it seems. I might keep it at that and leave the rest up to your hp. His mom is terrified and maybe trying to get support from you. As hard as it is, I would try to stick with facts. All suicidal threats are serious but most of them are just that...threats from sick and depressed people. Not to say it cant or won't happen. I guess I'm just saying you only need to cope with what is. Preparing for uncertain catastrophe is not going to be healthy for you or your kids. If he had cancer or something like that...it would be another story.

On Father's Day I can't be sure how serious he was. I will spare the gory details but here are two facts:

he had a loaded gun in his bedroom that I texted his mom to go get. She did and confirmed with me that yes he had the gun and yes it was loaded.

Then she called the cops to come take him to hospital for suicide watch. At hospital his blood alcohol level was 3.4 (three. Four)

*******
Since then things have gotten worse for my ex. His mom kicked him out (who can blame her). Ex lives at a hotel because he got denied an apartment due to his child endangerment charge. He feels like everyone has turned against home and he has no reason to live. Not true everyone wants to help him but we can't force him to get sober. No one can handle him living with him because it's just too stressful. So even more than Father's Day he feels like he has no one and no reason to live.... So he drinks even more now because he doesn't have to hide it from anyone at hotel. He is very mentally unstable right now. I took him to get food earlier tonight. So I saw his condition first hand. Oh and to top it off he I'd laid off this week... Not sure if he is laid off (which does happen with his job) or if he got fired for drinking, which wouldn't be uncommon either.

I have watched his me tal health decline so rapidly since April,of this year and every time I see him it's worse and worse.

4my2kids · Member

I won't say anything to daughter. I will just get her into therapy and let the therapist know the details of what's been going on. Daughter is not seeing her dad right now, she doesn't ask to and he doesn't want her to see him in this condition.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi, 4. Still don't know if you're in Al-Anon, but I hope you will do that. If there is an Al-a-Teen group, you might want to find out if your daughter could attend those meetings, too? Your husband and their Dad is an alcoholic and this disease has affected the whole family. The one in control is usually the alcoholic until family members get involved with Al-Anon. Without it, we're like lost lambs going from one pasture to another looking for grass to eat and only finding dirt. He may be dying - he may not be. My ex husband was always dying of something starting at age 22 when we married. He actually died at age 51. But there was always something he'd tell us he had that he didn't have until then. My alcoholic son has threatened suicide off and on for many years. As PC says, we want to take that seriously, but it is part of what alcoholics say in my experience when life gets pretty sucky for them and they don't want to make any changes. I've also seen my AS look likes he's near death many times in the last few years. I still get scared because I know he could die based on various things, but I've learned to stop freaking out and to reach out like you're doing and just ask for help. Wisdom always comes to meet me. And I can relax.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

I can't add much to these beautiful replies except to say I am so sorry for your loss coming and for the children

I would also tell them the truth...don't bash him, or be in anyway negative, but I would tell the truth..simple...loving...no covering up b/c when they do find out the truth, then it is bad for you...Kids really want the truth

also I recommend councelling for the little one and you with her....

Also I recommend alanon for you, strong work on the steps, literature, meetings, if you don't have a sponsor now is the time, with this looming ahead of you, also , oh i already said it but will say it again...MEETINGS....and do keep us posted ok??? we are a community of support and caring here and no matter the cause of a death, a death is still a great loss...no matter the cause....

be truthful and gentle when you tell the kids, but they have the right to know the truth.....PEACE BE WITH YOU......

4my2kids · Member

grateful2be wrote:

Hi, 4. Still don't know if you're in Al-Anon, but I hope you will do that. If there is an Al-a-Teen group, you might want to find out if your daughter could attend those meetings, too? Your husband and their Dad is an alcoholic and this disease has affected the whole family. The one in control is usually the alcoholic until family members get involved with Al-Anon. Without it, we're like lost lambs going from one pasture to another looking for grass to eat and only finding dirt. He may be dying - he may not be. My ex husband was always dying of something starting at age 22 when we married. He actually died at age 51. But there was always something he'd tell us he had that he didn't have until then. My alcoholic son has threatened suicide off and on for many years. As PC says, we want to take that seriously, but it is part of what alcoholics say in my experience when life gets pretty sucky for them and they don't want to make any changes. I've also seen my AS look likes he's near death many times in the last few years. I still get scared because I know he could die based on various things, but I've learned to stop freaking out and to reach out like you're doing and just ask for help. Wisdom always comes to meet me. And I can relax.

Thank you! And I will say he is not living with me. I had to draw that line 2 years ago for my own well being as my mental health was going down hill from the stress.

I am just going to continue to back out of his life, I have been there enough and he doesn't seem to want help. I have to keep my job and sanity for my kids. If he ever wants to get better i will be there for him, but if he chooses to drink himself to death, well I think I just have to accept that.

Is that wrong? Hateful? I don't have an ounce of hate for him! Hate the disease with a passion. But I can't force him to not drink or get help.

4my2kids · Member

neshema2 wrote:

I can't add much to these beautiful replies except to say I am so sorry for your loss coming and for the children
I would also tell them the truth...don't bash him, or be in anyway negative, but I would tell the truth..simple...loving...no covering up b/c when they do find out the truth, then it is bad for you...Kids really want the truth
also I recommend councelling for the little one and you with her....
Also I recommend alanon for you, strong work on the steps, literature, meetings, if you don't have a sponsor now is the time, with this looming ahead of you, also , oh i already said it but will say it again...MEETINGS....and do keep us posted ok??? we are a community of support and caring here and no matter the cause of a death, a death is still a great loss...no matter the cause....
be truthful and gentle when you tell the kids, but they have the right to know the truth.....PEACE BE WITH YOU......

Thank you. I am in tears after seeing my ex tonight. I have accepted that I can't fix him.... But I would do anything...ANYTHING to make that happen! Why can't he see how much he has to live for? If nothing else our kids! I know it's the damn disease!

I'm just at a complete loss!

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't think its anything but having had enough of it all. And - I learned that although I was no longer with my ex - I was still affected by the disease as were my children until I entered Al-Anon and CODA. It took me awhile to realize that not only did my husband have a problem - I had one, too. I couldn't do anything about his disease, but I could do something about the way it had affected me. And - because my son also had inherited the disease - I was better prepared to deal with it without doing some of the same things I did in relationship to his Dad's disease. I could divorce my husband - the harder hit was my son's disease. We can't divorce our kids. Unfortunately, it is a family disease and often our kids either become alcoholics or marry one without some kind of program - to date Al-Anon and AA are the most successful that I know about - to re-educate us and to help us learn how to live with and heal from this disease. We can't cause it, control it or cure it, but we can arrest it in Al-Anon.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha 4mykids...Alcoholism is a progressive disease. Over time it only gets worse. Alcohol is a chemical depressant and if he already had depression it will get worse. Alcoholism is a fatal disease and if not arrested by total abstinence the alcoholic arrives at but 3 choices...sobriety, insanity or death.

For me the kids have got to know about the disease in the family because they have become affected by it...additionally my college studies regarding the genetics of alcoholism puts the children in predisposition to continue it in their own lives. I come from the disease on both sides of my family and I am also alcoholic and a member both of Al-Anon and AA.

If the family won't or refuses to get help from such programs as Al-Anon and Alateen they will also get sicker wether the alcoholic is still drinking or not. This is a family disease and it doesn't harm only when he drinks.

You are not a complete loss. You have continued to reach out and find help. You can read about the miracles on this site and you can be one of these if you want and will work for it. You are right you cannot fix your alcoholic or your husband if either refuses to get help from anyone. The best person to help an alcoholic get sober is a sober alcoholic...you don't seem to be one of those.

Keep coming back often and join us. Get information about alcoholism from a local face to face group and bring it home so that you daughter can read it hereself. Should there be an Alateen group in your area...take her to it and toss her in the room...the kids will love here and show here what they have found out.

(((((hugs))))) smile

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Very dear one, my kids were 4 and 5 when their dad was dying. So its a bit different. I believe it is very important to let your child know her dad is very sick. Let her know how much you care for him, that it is not his fault at all. Tell her it is no ones fault. She will find a reason to blame herself. It must be made clear that it is NO ones fault.

She needs to know becuz if he dies and she was not told, she will never forgive you. She wants to know. It then gives her a chance to say or do what she wants to do before he does die.ten year olds are very bright. I want to tell you even though my daughter was only five, she even now at 38 is mad at me for not letting her see her daddy when he was in the hospital. back then kids were not allowed in ICU.

Its a very complicated process. you are wise to ask questions as to what to do. I had no idea, I had no chance to do that. He was in an accident, all I could think about was no way he would die. was 32 years agao last wednesday. ugh.

Does not matter he is ex now, does not live with you. You still love the man you married, and the father of your kids. It's the disease we all hate. I was in the same position as you. He was just layed off too. He was 27 years old.

Mine got very drunk and was in a pedestrian accident

I am so so sad for all of you. It hits me in my heart for you so much. This dear man is in deep trouble and you know it. I know I would want to keep tabs on him as much as possible.

Now my husband my ex again, is very sick and slowly dying. We had been friends many years. got married, he was sober for years in AA strong program. Had a brain tumor surgery, woke up a monster. Now he is going downhill slow but sure. doing any kind of drug and drinking. to be honest he is so miserable, I only wish for peace for him. They can go on for years. You would be shocked all he has gone thru but is still here.

Now I understand about your son too, but again, honestly he would want to know ,needs to. He may need to say or do something too. Its not fair for us to shield them from this life situation. I would have been horrified if no one told me about my mother. hon no one told me about my daddy dying. I was in my forties. I called him to talk and was told he died. was awful. I still feel horrible. I never got to tell him things he needed to know. My dumb brother told him lies I did not figure out until later. But too late.

keep coming. lots of us have experienced loss and kids. my sincere love to you and yours and your A, debilyn

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

by the way NO you are not hateful or wrong. You still love the man, but hate the disease.

OH mattie is so right I forgot that. My kids were both afraid that if something happened to me how would anyone find them? So you may want to share with her that you are always there but you can depend on ---------- and they are always there to be with you and know where you are. You may want to make sure she has numbers to call.

Daddys can easily be the kids rock no matter their condition or what they have done. Sorta instinctual.

much love

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't have much else to add aside from what has already been posted. I hope that some of your confusion/dread has subsided a bit from this wise counsel and there are feelings of hope for you and your family. The alcoholic is still controlling his family...now the ante has upped with the escalated fear and dread. If you all follow the guidance for meetings (recovery), there will be less control over you health and well being. It will be in its proper place...with you and your Higher Power. A big hug for all of you.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't think it's hateful to be at terms with the fact that he is currently drinking himself to death and that it is a very realistic possibility that it will happen. I actually think it speaks well of you to have that clarity and not be in denial about the seriousness of his illness. I am so sorry you have to bear witness to all of this. Keep coming back here...We do care as you see. There is a great core group of folks here.

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

I hope you can dive into al-anon face to face meetings and find a sponsor to help you through this very hard time for you and the kids. Sending you love and support!

4my2kids · Member

Thanks to everyone. It's another rough day. Ex was drunk texting me til 2am about how he has no reason to live. I just don't know how I am suppose to deal with this. Do I keep telling him daily the reason he has for living? I mean I want to but the affect it is having on me is not good at all! But then if I ignore him will that be when he harms himself?

Anyway he was suppose to go to court today.... But he was too drunk or passed out. He stopped answering text or his phone so not sure since I was at work.

A huge part of me is saying walk away. He chooses to not get help and is dragging you down with him...... And then there is the part of me that knows that I am the only person he reaches out to and if I turn away that just might be enough for him to hurt/kill himself.

slogan_jim · Senior Member

So sorry for your situation 4mykids.

I can't really comment on how to tell your children about death because I don't know a lot about that.

However, when I lived with him, my father would come home stumbling drunk crying profusely, vomiting, threatening suicide, saying he was going to kill himself. I didn't have a mom, so he was all I had. You know what me and my sister did?

Nothing. He's still around. Never even attempted it. Now granted, I was 25 and there were no guns in the house but Your ex just wants attention. Taking your own life takes quite the set of cojones and takes a very arrogant, narcissistic (my opinion) a$$hole to pull off that kind of thing.

Last month, my dad was at his local bar talking to a friend. He had mentioned something about having no reason to live and she phoned the police. They came by to check on him at home, since then he's not allowed in the bar because they are tired of him and his belly-aching.

A suicide threat is scary. this is what the alcoholic wants. All the attention, all the pity, all the affection you are all giving him, is playing right into his disease.

Take this one step at a time. Just let your kids know dad is going through a tough time with his disease and you thought they should know. IF something happens, deal with it then.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

4mykids

I am so sorry. This is indeed extremely stressful for you and it cannot be sustained. In a very similar situation, I did not given the person a the reason they have to live. instead I validated their pain and predicament and said I understood . I said his disease was and has destroyed his life. AA and AA meetings are the only life line he should reach out to I could not help. I then hung up

If you are extremely worried then I would call 911 and report it.

Please take care of you and get the rest you need.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

The wife or mother often tries to be nurse, psychiatrist, hotline interventionist, etc. We get sucked into believing we're the only person there for them. Then, just by accident, we might learn all the other folks who got 2 am calls, visited, tried to help our As.

I learned many years ago that all my good listening skills, care, compassion, etc was forgotten as soon as the inebriated person dried out or slept it off. I'm with Hotrod. Tell him where he can get help, that you care about him, and hopes he will find the help he needs.

After awhile, I even stopped answering the phone or reading texts. I'd turn the caller over to their HP and then I'd go to sleep.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

If he is actively threatening suicide, do call the emergency number. There are professionals to deal with it. You should not feel as if you're the only thing standing between him and death -- because you're not. He should never put you in that position.

Bettina · ~*Service Worker*~

My question is why do you presume he will die.??

Eventually yes, and if he keeps on drinking, probably sooner.

Does he have any other physical illness's going on??? If he threatens suicide they will put him in lockdown for awhile.
He will have to go to group therapy, he might have a dual diagnosis such as depression. There is still hope. He might get the help he needs.

My X threatened suicide once, "Well he said, I want to die". that was it, he was in ordered rehab for a month. and under
watch for 48 hours.

Then allowed to graduate with all the other non suicidal people. Isnt drinking every day like suicide.?

I thought the X Alcoholic would die 10 years ago, with a massive heart attack, falling down the stairs many times, Choking on vomit in his sleep, that was scary and rupturing his esophagus 3 years ago, he amazed the drs. Last week he passed away, he lived 10 years longer than I thought he would live. We don't get to decide or guess when they die.

He is still alive and he might meet a person that will connect with him and talk him into living. Unless your leaving out other complications. You are in my prayers. I know its rough, I'm still going thru losing my X to this horrible disease.

I don't think the young one needs to know all the details and the older one should be told. He would want to know. I know I would.

Hugs, Bettina

-- Edited by Bettina on Thursday 1st of August 2013 08:24:52 PM

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