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hi everyone, my AH has been sober for over 3 years we both work our programs. he wants to drive cross county with me to do some sightseeing and is really looking forward to it. we had a discussion this morning and i told him, "i don't think i can do it." he asked why and i told him because his driving makes me so nervous. i didn't say it mean and was honest about my feelings. (he drives very fast. he looks at his hair, doesn't pay attention to the road...) whenever i get into the car with him, i feel like i am going to vomit because i am so nervous.
well, AH said, "i have never been in a 'xxx' accident!" he was upset with me. and i feel awful. why do i feel so bad? i just don't know how i can compromise with this vacation. i asked if we could fly out and he was adament..."NO! i'm not flying!" for many years i would just do what-ever people wanted to do because i didn't want to cause any problems. would like honest opinions...am i being unreasonable? i don't believe that i am but we don't always see ourselves as others do. thanks...deb
-- Edited by canadianguy on Saturday 13th of July 2013 10:36:31 PM
Hi, Debbie: I'm sure others will respond to your post. Since I wasn't there and don't know the whole of the situation nor do I know why you're feeling so horrible, I do want to say that I've felt the same way when I've tried on a new behavior and the outcome is less than I hoped it would be.
Just like the 3cs in alcoholism, we can apply those to other people's reactions to us as well. We are responsible for communicating according to THINK, but that doesn't always mean we'll get the response we'd like.
I can tell you that I have struggled with getting into anybody's car (and planes and boats and anything else with wheels) since my son's accident and brain injury multiple years ago. I have felt the same way you have. It has taken me a long time to work through that trauma. I drive - but won't drive expressways if I can avoid it at all. I ride with people but only those people I trust or have known awhile. I'm just upfront with them about my feelings and the fact that I don't trust that I won't grab the wheel if I'm suddenly anxious. I have learned that riding with my eyes closed when nervous or riding in the back seat of a car where I can't see, therefore, is the best place for me and best for the driver. Most folks are understanding about it and we can laugh about my being alone in the back seat with one driver. Some get mad about it because they can't understand it or they give me a hard time about facing my fear, etc. The way I see it - I have faced my fear and my faith says "Do what you need to do for you." I don't get mad at them because they don't understand. I just don't give in to them.
I also refuse to ride with anybody who tailgates, speeds, or otherwise drives recklessly and it doesn't matter to me if they've had an accident or not. I'm not going to ride with them whether they get angry about it or not. In the words of my grandfather, "Well, is s/he mad again? Well, s/he can just get glad again."
These decisions are all based on both Step 3 and Step 11. They worked to help me come to decisions I could live with and trust.
The way I see it, there are two issues here. The first one is your nervousness about your H's driving. As to whether it's reasonable, I'm not even sure that's a helpful question. It sounds as if he's not a very cautious driver, and it may be entirely reasonable of you to be worried. It's also true that even if he were a superb driver, if you had fears about car travel, those are your fears and they are what they are. They shouldn't be dismissed, as I see it, whether or not the driver is good or bad. We all start from where we are.
The second issue is his reaction. It sounds angry and dismissive. In an ideal scenario, you would be able to talk together about your worries. Maybe he would take it on board to modify his driving some, and you'd accompany him on some short, calmer drives to get some more reassurance. But for him to try to browbeat you into not being worried -- well, that never helps, does it? Sometimes we're browbeaten so much that we pretend we're no longer worried. But it doesn't really change our minds. It just adds secrecy and dishonesty to the relationship.
To my mind, the inability to talk and solve the problem together is as big a problem as the driving.
My guess is that you feel horrible because his way of trying to change the situation is to try to make you feel horrible. That sounds typical of an alcoholic, even a dry-drunk one. Also typical of many other people. Instead of taking on board that they might need to change a bit, they lash out at the other person. My guess is that he doesn't have much of a recovery program going on?
These are not easy situations. It's especially hard to start being authentic after many years of not. Others often have a "Change back!" reaction. I hope you'll stand your ground and keep on not saying it mean, but saying what you mean.
YOU he asked why and i told him because his driving makes me so nervous. i didn't say it mean and was honest about my feelings. (he drives very fast. he looks at his hair, doesn't pay attention to the road...) whenever i get into the car with him, i feel like i am going to vomit because i am so nervous.
Me....so what is wrong w/you stating a fear of his driving (action) you are not calling him a &*&* idiot, or telling him hes a &*&*& for scaring you with his driving.....U just said "his driving makes you nervous" His reaction was uncalled for and typical of a defensive alkie......I don't see anything wrong and I hope as you work your program you will feel less badly for stating an honest fear and its his problem if he can't take you being honest about being scared about something...its not like you said "i don't want to vaca with you, " you offered alternative way of travelling...
I would consider the source and as long as you know you didn't say it mean (i wasn't there so I can't hear your tone) but assuming U did not say it mean, its his problem to get over it or stay mad, his option.....why do WE always feel bad when WE state our needs or our fears or our reasonable feelings????? I don't anymore...thanks to this program teaching that I am as important as the next person, and I have the RIGHT to feel happy, safe and free and healthy....
keep coming here and i hope you keep working your program b/c it really teaches us how to take care of ourselves in a reasonable way w/out feeling the guilt trips the alkies put on us...........PEACE......and IMHO?? U R OK
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I have found that feelings are just that" Feelings " They are not right or wrong and they are not fact.
You shared your fear with your partner and he in turn" reacted" with his feelings. Never had an accident etc. You offered a compromise about flying and he insists on driving I believe you feel terrible for a number of reasons:
! You were not heard. Your feelings were dismissed and no compromise was offered.
2. You now feel trapped and believe that you should people please as you have in the past.
3 Your sense of recovery will not let you make your needs invisible any longer.
Is it possible to negotiate an alternate driving agreement so that you do most of the driving or that he agrees not to exceed the speed limit. In addition, if you begin to feel fearful he will pull over and either let you drive or wait until you are calm Would that work for you?
Naturally the Plan B would be not to go al all and have a different vacation plan
I used to do caregiving for a woman who was mostly blind and when I drove us places, I took great care to envision how the ride was for her so that I was driving with her comfort in mind. I drive a school bus and again keeping the kids comfort in mind. It is selfish to drive with passengers in the car without any regard to how those passengers feel. My first ex drove horridly, I got to the point of refusing to ride with him -felt like a bobble head doll in the car, swinging around corners, jerking to stops. My second ex drove worse, especially when he was mad - uh, which was always ha! I hated being in the car when he'd get impatient, we'd start a trip ok, but then the drive would wear on him and if traffic difficulty rose up, which it always does - that's the nature of traffic - then it would be yelling and braking hard, and zooming around and my fingers on the dashboard until we got there and he'd look at me and make some stupid comment like, what, you don't like my driving? Of course I couldn't say what I wanted to say because I didn't want the fight but no, I didn't like it.
My guess is you are probably feeling bad because you spoke up and made him mad - I hate making people mad, even if I'm in the right; that's the way I am - a go along to get along kind of person. But, knowing what I know now about being that way and compromising myself to make someone else happy, I'd try pretty hard to state my opinion regardless of the outcome and NOT do what I don't want to do. It would be different on a short trip but cross-country with someone whose driving scares me? no thanks!
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
I don't like it when people are angry either - because anger also seems to put a wall between me and the other person. Once the wall is up, there is nothing further we can do. I don't fear anger because I don't fear mine, but I do feel sad when the wall goes up. Just not as long as I once did some years back. I see it now as an opportunity to let the other person be who they are and do what they need to do. As for me, I try to make contact with them after giving them space a few times, but if they don't reach back - I keep going. To me its like God saying, not this person and not this way.
Deb: I do hope this vacation thing works out for you. I can understand on an experiential level just how difficult this entire process is for you.
Lots of support.
((((debhub))))...I drive with a wife who will "REACT!!" to stuff randomly when I'm driving and I have had conversations with her about it being dangerous to us because it is very very distractive and causes me to react. Conversations...hmmm I have even at times stopped the car and walked away from it and her....hmmmm I have also at time got into the passenger seat and let her drive...Alternatives are solutions. You don't have to come up with alternatives to his reactions...those are his choices and behaviors and he has other choices about how he wants to hear somethings that he takes personally. You didn't say he was a bad person...you said his driving sucked which might be how he heard it or even said it much much nicer...he gets to interpret. Thing is you said it and it is done...since you are not responsible for his reaction guilt and shame isn't necessary. If what you are feeling is fear of ....(whatever) you can get over that one also by self love. You have the ability the time and the facility to speak up for yourself and you did that...for me that is a big YAHOOOO which is what I did when I overcame the fear and second guessing about speaking up for myself and my peace of mind and serenity. Keep duplicating it...do it again...say what you mean, mean what you say...don't say it mean!! YAHOOOO!! In support. Help him grow. (((((hugs)))))
When I am around an angry person, I shut down....i had that growing up and i just zone out...detach....the wall , as Grateful goes up, but I think I do fear it or at least if not fear, I am put off by it....
I usually just remove me from the "hot situation" and let them cool down and then try to talk later.....If they are confrontational and angry natured, like its a pattern or something, then I am GONE
I can't deal with people who are angry, boisterous, aggressive, even if it is only verbal, it triggers me....I won't stay with it....
Also, I have seen that folks who are easily angered and can't control it have the potential of escalation....I just don't feel comfortable with a person with anger issues....
And this is soo weird.....I had anger issues where, not in front of people, but alone, b4 recovery helped me deal with my past pain, I woudl just "lose it" and it would be at me...not at anyone else, but at ME...If i made a mistake...or goofed something up....and I knew it was due to not paying attention, being in my body or being in the present, I would get sooo mad at me, I would cuss me and verbally beat me up big time
alanon meets...12 steps over and over and over and for the rest of my life...helped me work through that anger....for me?? a mistake was "proving my abusers right" that I was a born "screw up" a born "failure" an "idiot" and so on.....its like I would hear his voice echoing in my brain, "you seeeee you are a stupid jerk"
I have been in recovery for 11 years and only am NOW just beginning to channel that anger where "ok, what am I really upset over???? " and I work the steps on it......and Now I do self talk and i just say "ok...u weren't paying attention, so we begin again....start all over'
maybe its b/c I had such anger issues, is why I am uncomfortable with others who have it....b/c it is soo unhealthy , it is sooo uncomfortable for the ones around the one who is angry
I sure hope your vacation thing goes ok.....and no worries about your asserting your needs to feel safe in the car...That is a very reasonable request....it CAN be worked out peacefully, but he has to go his 1/2 just as you would...
sure hope vaca goes ok and you have some fun....
keep coming back....we are listening....
__________________
Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
We just got beck from a two week vacation on the road and camping. I, too, get nervous when my recovering AH is distracted while driving. I simply remind him that he is pulling a camper and needs to keep his hands on the wheel and is there something I can get for him? If he is speeding, I simply remind him of the speed limit and he slows down. I don't say either one mean, just stating facts. He doesn't get defensive when I do it that way. Don't know if that helps, but it really works for us. We had a great vacation BTW, and we truly live in a beautiful country. There is so much to see and so much that you miss if you fly.
That's a tough one Debhud. I am seeing it from both sides too. On his side of things: When I was three years sober I really wanted to be experiencing the new freedoms that sobriety gave me. I was never able to travel cross country like that cuz I knew drunk driving across the country would be a bad idea. Also... I just didn't care cuz all I wanted to see what the bottom of a bottle...At 3 years sober I wanted to see and do everything that I hadn't been able to due to being so sick with alcoholism so long. I wanted to do it all and "to hell" with anyone in my way. It is childish, but it's also a sign of growth cuz at least he wants to experience life and see things really badly. I totally get the desire to "drive across the country" and I could understand him having a tantrum of sorts in response to you limiting that freedom. I don't know how else you could state it to soften it. You might try to own that it is "your fear" more and more and less "his driving"...you could try empathizing more with what is behind the really strong urge to drive cross country (probably what I mentioned above is some of it). I don't know if your own driving makes you nervous - if that is the case, it's not so much him as it is the issue of driving great distances in general.
I'm a crappy driver too but I'm probably the only male on the planet that admits to being a crappy driver. So I dunno...I suspect you and him will work this out since I'm reading that you guys have already made it through much worse challenges and are still together. I can only suggest something along the lines of "Honey, I understand how important driving across the country is. I can see how at this point in your program, having the freedom to just drive all the way across country would be fantastic, spiritual, and something wonderful you'd want to share with me. All that driving made me nervous. It's not even so much about your driving (even if it is) as much as me being nervous in a car that long watching anyone else drive. I might be nervous and not enjoy it if I was driving the whole way so it's not so much you. Not sure if I can work on this idea more and get used to it, but in the meanwhile, can we think of other ways to treat ourselves to a nice vacation. You are wonderful. I love you and I'm sorry this upset you." The end. In an ideal world that would help lots but of course things do not go according to script in real life and I'm not sure if saying those things would be authentic to you.
