The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
You know, anger is a normal reaction to being betrayed, lied to, stolen from, etc. Sometimes when folks vent on the board...I sense, just sometimes, people being condescending, as if somehow if you are angry you are not very far along in recovery. I don't think anger is inconsistent with recovery in ALANON. In fact, in my "sickest" years, I was pushing my anger away, and often when stuff would happen I'd say to myself "you shouldn't be upset about this" -- making mountains into molehills.
I think what you DO when you're angry is part of recovery. It doesn't consume me anymore...but there are still flashes. When those happen, I see it as an indication of a boundary crossing, a red flag, and journal and vent (sometimes here!) and decide how to respond...and sometimes I choose to let it go. This is very different from "stuffing" my feelings and anger in order to keep the peace...
So, I mean no disrespect (given the first couple of lines in my post) -- but I AM curious about what part YOU all think anger plays in recovery...for me it was a sign of change...
Curious what you think,
RP
-- Edited by rehprof on Friday 5th of July 2013 06:22:05 AM
Anger helped me make changes I needed to make and still does. I also don't get angry about some of the same things I used to get angry about and handle things differently than I once did when I felt the surge of anger. I'm a pretty sensitive person who lives life fairly passionately, so when I feel anger I have to make sure I don't use it to punish myself and others with it. I can turn hard and cold when I use it as a tool to wound rather than a tool to notice something is out of whack in me or in my environment or don't look at what might be underneath the anger. I see posters on this board being at different stages in healing, therefore, different ways of feeling, understanding, acting when it comes to the emotion. Thanks for your honest share.
As a postscript that may or may not be helpful to posters reading this share: I have a sister-in-law who has NEVER felt or been angry. I have marveled at that, too. She is not passive-aggressive, so she hasn't buried it. I've never seen her angry so I don't think she denies it. Because I've felt angry plenty in my life, I asked her one day what her secret to that might be. She said, "I don't think I had anything to do with it. It's just a gift I received." Then, I had to wrestle with my envy.
To go further with anger - my own and not someone else's anger - my own self-righteousness and judgment of others while minding their business rather than my own has also been an issue in my life. Learning how to mind my own business and not try to decide what others should be thinking, doing or feeling has helped me not feel angry as much. That self-righteousness and judgment is part and parcel of my codependency, so I have to pay real close attention to what is going on in my thinking before I act on my anger. But, that has come after years of recovery work, therapy and self-knowing. And I'm still not very good at it. Practice is the name of my game. I just don't like feeling those hard emotions - they cause violence in my own person - so, I'm willing to do whatever I can to help myself be at peace more often than not. Not easy, but I'm willing. And what is true for me at this late stage in my life is not true for others and shouldn't be. Sharing my own E/S/H isn't always going to be helpful to all, but maybe helpful to one and that's what matters to me most. I do believe in the slogan that we use a lot at face to face meetings - "Take what you like and leave the rest." It guides me when I post or read others'. I'm grateful to everyone and their courage in sharing themselves no matter what stage of healing they are in.
-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 5th of July 2013 08:09:15 AM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 5th of July 2013 08:13:02 AM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 5th of July 2013 08:17:31 AM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 5th of July 2013 08:46:17 AM
-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 5th of July 2013 08:47:45 AM
Totally get what you are saying after years and I do mean years of living in anger I was frustrated that it was like I'm just suppose to get over it and like you I stuffed it for so long that the anger was coming out of my pores of my skin.
The fact that I can constructively deal with my anger and actually identify other emotions outside of anger is a huge step for me. Anger is absolutely part of the process without question. I think that it's hard to convey things through posting .. it's like email and texting .. the nuanced of words and the expressions that go with the statements are loss.
Which brings me to another interesting fact we are raising a generation/s of children right now who can't read people's expressions or body language. It's something my daughter and I have talked a lot about .. how important it is to be able to read people when speaking to them. PLUS .. there is a lot that is said that is sometimes unspoken and that is lost in the technology age.
Anyway, back to the original point .. yes .. I can see how far I have grown by how I express my emotions any of them vs just stuffing them. That dam truck is still running and not on fire .. LOL .. that is a good thing.
It is ok to feel any emotion provided that I just don't remain stuck there and alanon has given me the freedom to know that whatever I'm feeling this too shall pass .. it's a feeling not a fact. Sometimes I do just need to get it out and move on.
Sometimes I think I do jump the gun in wanting to help someone move past the pain quicker than I had to and this includes anger. I feel uncomfortable when someone expresses something that I've just recently been through or am going through at the moment and I just want to selfishly stop my own pain as well as theirs.
Hugs P :)
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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
Hey Push -- exactly...even those of us who have done this for a while...still want to rescue and solve people's problems...because of our OWN discomfort with their pain..really good point.
I agree. I think moving from depression and helplessness into anger is progress.
It shows you now care about yourself enough to be pissed of that someone has tread over your boundaries. It also shows more hope for the future as when we are depressed and hopeless, we are resigned to accept the bad behavior and all that goes with being with an A.
I was depressed and hopeless with my A for a good while, then for like 6 months at the end I was more pissed off and we argued and screamed at each other. Then I left.
When I learned to acknowledge my anger, express it in an effective way and stand by my anger without worrying about how others would respond it was HUGE for my recovery. When I can say "I am so pissed off right now at what you said", I feel like the jolly green giant (without the jolly part). Sometimes I take some pretty good action when I am angry. There are times on this forum I want to scream to the person posting "GET PISSED OFF!!!" Can you tell I like the words "pissed off"? I, too, know that there is so much that we miss through texting and e-mailing..it is handicapping, at times, for responses. I read people through what is not being said, so I do struggle sometimes on this forum. If I have ever come across as being condescending I apologize...I know I miss so much via this method of communication.
I can't resist .. I'd rather be pissed off than pissed on ..
Hee hee, P :)
__________________
Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo
I do understand. I have always thought that alanon gave me permission to feel and express my anger and that doing so was important , healthy and desirable. The 4ths Step helped me to deal with old past anger and the 10ths step takes care of the day to day stuff.
My problem with anger before alanon was that I changed ALL my feelings into anger. It was easier to express it by blaming others reacting to it, lashing out , felt powerful . Working the steps I found that I changed my disappointments, sadness, loneliness, and most importantly my FEAR into this one emotion and lashed out.
I have learned to feel all my feelings, express them in a healthy manner , and become more human in the process. Examining my motives, and permitting myself to be vulnerable was the key
(((PP))) Thanks for my first laugh of the day with the Jolly Green Giant (without the jolly part) imagery. As far as you coming off condescending on these boards - well, for me that has never happened. I just relish seeing your no nonsense way of relating at the posts - anger and all. Even if it did feel that way to me - its my take on it and my problem. I'd rather just enjoy you.
My two cents would be like most things - "everything in moderation"
First off, "normal" is a setting on a washing machine, and don't think we can apply it to human behavior.... :)
Secondly - "anger", IMHO, can indeed be a useful tool, to initiate change (in us), to use as a device towards getting ourselves motivated and better.... It is a slippery slope, however, as people who stay stuck with their anger tend to be, well..... angry. And that is not a place that is very pleasant - for them or for others - to stay.
My wise old sponsor used to let me vent sometimes, for sure - and then he would encourage me along with something like "okay, so does that feel better? Now are you prepared to do something about it?"
As far as the comment about "condascending" responses on the board, insinuating that those who are angry are somehow "less recovered", I can only speak for myself.... I try to reply to posts that mean something to me, that either bring up personal feelings for me, and/or if I think my experience on the subject raised is applicable... We are ALL in different stages of our respective recovery on this site, and I fully respect that. I must admit, however, that I am much more motivated to respond and interact with folks who are trying to work through their recovery with open minds - as opposed to some who don't want any part of "our" program of recovery, but vent that their life is unmanageable, over and over again. I agree it is a fine line, and really DO believe we are all here to support each other.
Regards
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
so true..people can get stuck in anger, and get stuck on the pity pot...and I'm not sure how to help people move out of those stuck places, or even if we can, or should. I know when I was stuck in the "life is out to get me" phase...it made me mad when people suggested that I needed to move on, and honestly...I don't know what would have helped me move from being stuck. Eventually, I just got sick of being a whiney-whinerson...but for a long while I felt really alone and that no one could understand me or my situation.
how do we best support each other when we are stuck?
I have already learned so much from this thread...that's why I love this board...
Well, we are all different.... but if/when I am stuck on my pity pot, I would encourage you to call me a "whiney-whinerson"...... :) LOVE that!
Kidding aside - I think all we can do for each other is gently encourage people back to healthier choices.... Our program is filled with compassion, empathy, forgiveness, and love (including and/or maybe primarily for ourselves). We ALL have the "right" to our anger - it just isn't going to provide longtime peace and serenity if we remain in that place
Tom
__________________
"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
I like this thread, too. I will respond a few times to individuals who seemed to be stuck, however, if there does not appear to be movement towards taking the steps we all know will work, I back off. I do that in my life, too. I got weary of having the life force sucked out of me by angry vampires!
Great post...I get my recovery vitamins from this an others just like I will take the other stuff from the bottle before going to work... I will always read or listen to discussion on anger. It is a primary alert emotion for me...the first thing it alerts me to is that something or someone is trying to take my control away and I don't like that ...I always want to be or appear to be in control. I am an enabler; a fixer and Control IS the primary characteristic I want to rely on...TOOOOOO BAD Superman there still is Kryptonite so get over it...either get pissed and ugly or pick up another tool...like what you have learned from others..."Let go and Let God" or "Take what you like and leave the rest" or "You don't have to like it; just accept it" or many of the other tools and lessons that are there so that I don't have to FEEL the TOXIC CHEMICALS running around in my brain and body...overdosing on adrenalin and testosterone and such. Just like a druggie getting a major fix. I hate reviewing the question "So what was I mad about"? -after- I was mad; of course because very often mad wasn't an appropriate reaction. I just react and get MAD when I could have relaxed for a couple of seconds to review and respond after thinking.
Anger maybe a normal emotion and often for me its inappropriate; just a sign that I'm out of control again or simply practicing "crazy making".
Don't piss me off cause I'm beginning to charge admission fees for the drama. LOL I love this vitamin. (((((hugs)))))
Okay, Jerry!!! My second laugh of the day. This was a deep one, too. "Don't piss me off cause I'm beginning to charge admission fees for the drama?!!!!) I have got to type this one in big, bold letters and post it around my life wherever there might be an empty chair, tree, mirror, printer, sleeping cat, rock, dirt mound or picnic basket. I'll have to change one of the words for church pews, but I still love it just the same!!!!
Hi MIPers...You know, anger is a normal reaction to being betrayed, lied to, stolen from, etc. Sometimes when folks vent on the board...I sense, just sometimes, people being condescending, as if somehow if you are angry you are not very far along in recovery. I don't think anger is inconsistent with recovery in ALANON. In fact, in my "sickest" years, I was pushing my anger away,I think what you DO when you're angry is part of recovery. It doesn't consume me anymore...but there are still flashes. When those happen, I see it as an indication of a boundary crossing, a red flag, and journal and vent (sometimes here!) and decide how to respond...and sometimes I choose to let it go. This is very different from "stuffing" my feelings and anger in order to keep the peace...
-- Edited by rehprof on Friday 5th of July 2013 06:22:05 AM
OMG....I needed to see this.....I first got into recovery 2002 and the first 4 years I was one angry little lady...the anger..the outrage,.....was all covering the intense grief I felt over my childhood and my losses mentally, physically, financially, spiritually, emotionally b/c of one EVIL S.O.B. could not go out and get a lady NON related to him and a ADULT and quit picking on us innocent children....My cousin and I are working through our anger and rage what he did.....so yea, for a long time I was stuck, but I had so much of it it was this giant manure pile and I had to shovel out EACH offense...EACH hurt that not just he did but my "mom deartest" did to me too
I stuffed my anger for decades...No wonder I had so much to work through...No wonder I was pissed all the time and then life, b/c of my codapendency was so bad, I had NEW offenses done against me by LIFE...so it was an on going thing....
I had to just keep venting, working, doing step 4, doing inner child work, family of origin work, to finally get to the point where I could accept "this is what happened...I cannot give me my childhood back, but I CAN give me a life now"
I had to just , after a lot of work, arrive at that point naturally, when I was ready....People would tell me "oh why can't you get over it???" Like DUHHH don't you think I WOULD if I COULD??????
I had to change my 'close circle" I had to dump a lot of bio relatives who were not encouraging to my recovery...I had to make a lot of internal boundaries
and as a result of this program, I am not pissed so much...maybe a little when I am reminded of the horrific and catastrophic cost his and her deeds against me really cost me....Its like it is (the fallout) in my face all the time.
I discover a new character defect I have to work out...I see me never being able to retire b/c of poor job choices when young b/c of zero self esteem
and I never got closure on those people....they lived....died....I never saw me get justice......I just have to trust in karma and it is difficult to trust in anything
and yea,...I would rather be pissed off then pissed on as someone here said.....I laughed at that one......
so anger to me, if it does not dominate and rule my life and if i can SEE what it is telling me is a natural emotion...it means set a boundary....kick someone to the curb.....assert my rights.....challenge offenses done at me......but I don't want to be reactive, but I want to respond...
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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!!
I have an article that says holding onto chronic anger is worse than smoking and/or high cholesterol. It takes a huge toll on the body and mind. But feeling anger and what others have said i.e. letting it go or discharging it in a non-destructive way, I believe is all good. Right now I am very angry with my A and with my son. However I am not insane about it, I'm not anxious, I believe in time it will all be resolved one way or another, and I can't fix them. Have to fix myself. Just read a great thing on detachment in "Courage to Change" on P. 187: I can detach and still love, still feel. That's what I want more of, Lyne
...have a pissy party instead of a pity party..tee hee hee