Opinions Wanted - Al-Anon Family Group

wornoutmrsfixit · Senior Member

Opinions Wanted

Jen61 · ~*Service Worker*~

Very confusing.

Sweet Stanley · ~*Service Worker*~

Addictions are very controlling. I know as a smoker who has tried to quit several times, it is the urge that is overwhelming. I would assume it is the same but much worse for an alcoholic. Many alcoholics don't quit on their first try, it takes several times. Also, it is not that they don't want to quit, the disease is just SO powerful. We just have to hope that they keep trying...

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Wornout...keep seeking with an open mind and you will find more help. Alcohol is and mind and mood altering chemical...altering being a focus point. The mind and mood go from normal to abnormal sort of and continued drinking makes abnormal a normal habit. Nother words the mind, emotions, body and spirit become conditioned by the chemical and to deprive them of the chemical sets up the intense "need" for the chemical and behavior. Alcoholism is a compulsion (subconscious/conscious) of the mind and allergy of the body. This is a huge description of the disease because it means that thinking of, wishing for, wanting, using and doing that all over again becomes primary no matter what else or who else is going on. Alcoholism means the relationship with alcohol is the most important relationship there is. Attempting to break the relationship will end up with physical, mental, emotional and spiritual pain just like we go thru when we cannot have the alcoholic 100 percent in our lives. Withdrawal is a painful process and subduing it is done with the chemical causing a damned if you do damned if you don't condition. Alcoholism is also a do for effect endeavor. From the first drink I got a real enlightening affect and it was super pleasurable. In order to have that affect again I had to do it again and then with continued use the affect becomes (usual) and illusive...I had to drink more and more to try to get the affect again. I never did and because alcohol is a very toxic chemical my body started to die from it. Alcohol affects every organ in the body...everyone from the very first drink and everyone there after. It cannot not affect the drinker negatively. Since alcoholism is an addiction; a compulsion of the mind and allergy of the body...the person dies over time and that is why0 it is said in the description of alcoholism "it is a fatal disease which can never be cured; only arrested by total abstinence. The alcoholic has but three choices...sobriety, insanity or death. Detoxing refers only to bleeding the chemical out of the system...detox isn't sobriety or even being dry...it is the absence of the chemical alcohol...all other conditions remain. The phenominom of "dry drunking" refers to thinking, acting, feeling and presenting as if being drunk; without any alcohol in the system and this refers to the person's system having been trained by the chemical alcohol which doesn't need to be present for the alcoholic to "act as if".

Sober is the condition of being, feeling, acting against the chemical addiction. Sober is a willing condition which is intentionally lived out...acted out and it includes not only the absense of alcohol and other mind and mood altering drugs and also an intentional process of living which deeply understands that the alcoholic cannot have life with any use on any level of alcohol and/or drugs. Sobriety (for me) must be where I have a alternative to alcohol and the affects of it in my life. The alternative must be a power greater than the alcohol itself and I must reaffirm that alternative at all times to guard against returning to the idea that I can live with alcohol and still have a useful life. It is difficult to find many alternatives more powerful than alcohol and alcoholism which I would desire to have. The outcomes are so polar opposites that I would want to pick the polar opposite of drinking and the world that comes with it. You can take the chemical out of the person yet you must replace it with something much more desireable.

Thanks for letting me share some of my ESH. (((hugs))) smile

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I think the craving is so strong and the denial is so huge.

Lots of times after being separated from my A for a while, I've gotten in touch with him again. I think, "If I just explain this to him, he'll react the way I want to." And then the next thing I know, I'm in the middle of full-blown chaos. I think it's like an alcoholc thinking, "I'll just walk into this bar and hold a glass for old time's sake, but I won't take a drink." Why can't I steer clear of the A? It must be the same reason he can't steer clear of alcoholism. I can't rely on my own decision-making; I have to lean on a recovery program to get the tools to make the better decisions. But the number of slips I had before I got the hang of it ... the number of times I succumbed to the magical thinking... depressing!

rehprof · ~*Service Worker*~

I teach substance abuse rehab (I know, ironic, ey?)

bottom line is...people use drugs and alcohol because they work...meaning they have the desired effect. It's much easier to deal with life (especially if you haven't developed mature coping skills) -- when the edge is off, and a person is anesthetized.

Part of recovery is developing alternative ways of coping....because an A really is a "one-hit wonder" -- and only has the one "tool" to deal with stress...

my 2 cents...

RP

Pushka · ~*Service Worker*~

Out of all of the open AA meetings and speakers I have listened to it boils down to what that bottom is .. and this is MY definition of a bottom at what point the emotional/physical pain outweighs the emotional/physical payoff. Everyone's bottom is different, some people don't have to take such deep stance in terms of loosing everything while others do. Sometimes even that is not enough.

The physical craving that I have heard described .. the best description and I've shared before is a person who had an old car and took the old end off one and put a different end on it .. they didn't use the proper tool to calibrate the gears. So what went on inside the car was this intense noise that if you were outside looking in you couldn't hear .. however inside it was enough to drive someone to murder pretty much. This same person went on to share that is what went on inside their head .. outside .. they looked just like they said "everything is fine" was the classic response. Inside was this whir that was going on that there was no relief .. this horrible sound goes on not 1 hour out of the da, not 4 hours out of the day, it was 24 hours 7 days a week. I can't imagine what it's like to live with that kind of distraction going on and having no relief for it.

This continued inside their head even while attending AA meetings. Everything was fine though .. until it wasn't .. the bottom they met was when they started drinking Listerine by the gallon (imagine mixing that with milk, soda, anything to make it go down easier). What they wanted was the 8 min of relief from that sound that was going on inside their head and the only thing that they found that worked because they didn't have coping skills was ethyl alcohol THAT was what brought relief in ANY form they could find. Well, after an accident after drinking a lot of Listerine they looked at themselves in the rear view mirror of their car and saw themselves with blood coming out of their forehead and knowing that this couldn't go on .. their body couldn't take it and neither could they, .. they couldn't keep going the way they were .. something had to change. They made the serious choice to get help. H.O.W. their program of recovery (honesty, open mindedness, willingness), to truly work a program of recovery .. to want the peace far more than the disease called to them.

Interestingly enough this person has never come to terms with a HP in a traditional way .. no Buddha, no Christian God, no religion in a traditional or untraditional sense of the word .. what they found were the tables (the AA tables and fellowship are their HP) and this is what lifted them up and out of the trenches and still does to this day. They must be doing something right because ever since the accident that was Listerine induced they found sobriety and have never looked back. They sounded solid emotionally as well .. they are honest, humble and teachable still to this day.

Obviously your STBAX has not found that point for himself where enough is enough .. the disease is still dictating what it wants and he is reacting to the disease and what it wants. Until he makes a solid decision to take responsibility for where life has lead him .. if nothing changes .. then nothing is going to change.

What I have learned here .. is the why's of the situation don't really matter because you can't rationalize with an irrational situation. There is no clear cut answer as to why someone does what they do .. they just do. Why someone can't find help and why someone else can .. that is a million dollar question. I can only answer why I keep trying to fix a situation or someone who doesn't want or need my help .. not really .. I know I wasn't ready to change until I was ready to surrender to my higher power and admit I have to be teachable every single day.

Keep coming back, hugs P :)

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

wornoutmrsfixit wrote:
It seems logical that once you go through the hell of detox, you would never want to go through that again and if you felt you were slipping, you would be calling a trusted person asking for help and at least the possibility of making it one more day. But we all know that alcoholics are not rational. Such a confusing disease.

To me, it is a mental trigger that sets them off...My druggie niece was clean for 2 years...had a good job...was doing great...then BAM....something in her mind set her off and she got on the meth again..ended up in jail for about 8 months and was clean for a while and BAM...again, she is on the stuff

I think it is a "glitch" or something about them that maybe an allergie or an off thing in their bodies where they cannot get around the liquor or drugs b/c they CANT Stop......I think I have a problem w/certain chocolates or cookies.........If I buy those girlscout thin mints, I have to eat until I am about to pop......I have to just keep certain foods OUT of my house so I don't over induldge.....an addict personality do I have??? Most likely given the horrific upbringing I had with TWO alkie parents, both of whom were violent and terrible people....My bio father was a serial offender against young girls 12 to 17 years old, minors who are no match for him and whom he could control....He even attacked me and my cousins......

so I most likely have an addict personality....certain snacks and particularly chocolate oriented things..well I accept it and I keep the stuff out of my house....I can go out and eat it and be fine...visit a friend and eat their oreos and be fine.....buy a box and bring it home???? I get into it and I cannot stop....Also I think my issues go back to the times when the beast would go out "girl hunting" and leave us w/out food and necessities, so maybe I over eat (thank goodness I am slim, good metabolism) maybe I over eat and binge at times out of fear of lack?? like the old days???

That is why if alkies and druggies just did their fam. of origin work, they would have a much better chance at remission (dont think their is a cure) then the ones who white knuckle it or they get into recovery to pass court ordered sentence or whatever, but if they coudl just work program and learn about their origins and how it impacted them, they may have a chance to stay off the stuff

now it is a choice to me....I don't buy my thin mints or my oreos and I am good to go....I go to market and its a CHOICE to buy my treats and over eat, put me at risk for over eating OR just don't buy them and keep me safe......it is choice to take that first drink....so why the choice???? something triggers them to do that...that is why going waaay back to childhood is essential to me just as the steps are....I handle my "treat addiction" waay much better when I am focusing on me and my program

just my thoughts..please take what u can use and discard the rest

Aloha · ~*Service Worker*~

They may be 'sober' but they are equally brain-damaged.

I am reminded again and again that the human brain is another organ in the body that is subject to malfunction just like any other organ in the body - i.e.: heart attack, kidney failure, etc. etc.

That is the ONLY way I've ever been able to wrap my head around "why A's do what A's do."

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Hope today is better for you than yesterday.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

There is no answer sweetheart. We cannot rationalize insanity!!!! hugs!

orchidlover · ~*Service Worker*~

Some people say relapse is indeed part of the disease. I definitely relapse all the time into codependency and that's because the lever for my behavior is set on a certain dial. For so many people recovery means giving up everything, all their friends, their way of life, their thinking. That is a huge step. For some people it is possible the first time for others it is set over time. Many many people relapse. The issue is that so many of us become obsessed with trying to understand them.

I think for me understanding the alcoholic came long after I was around them 24/7 trying to fix them. Only today did I really get on a gut level how much they lie. They need to lie and think that no one notices they are an alcoholic on a daily basis. Their lives are falling apart and they really believe they are still getting one over on people.

Letting go is one part of being able to look at them with a dispassionate air.

Maresie.

John · ~*Service Worker*~

Going through detox does not treat the disease of alcoholism or addiction. It addresses the withdrawals only. When someone goes through detox, no matter how terrible it was, if the disease is not put in check by immediate involvement in a program of ongoing recovery, their disease is simply just being put on hold, until the next round.

Bettina · ~*Service Worker*~

Whenever the X alcoholic would have a period of sobriety and then return to his drinking, I would always ask, Why did you start drinking again?? His response, in that 15 year old mentality, " I don't know"

Well if he doesnt know, how could I ever know.

Why is Alcoholism so chronic? Why do many die? Why can't they just stop? You do know that as long as they are drinking they go backwards emotionally. So you are dealing with a 15 year old mentality.

Well, because it is a disease that is so complex its mind boggling and it would take a life time to disect it.

As soon as we accept that it is a disease and they are mentally sick and don't get stuck on the why and move onto our
recovery the quicker our serenity.

Hugs, Bettina

-- Edited by Bettina on Wednesday 3rd of July 2013 03:05:33 PM

-- Edited by Bettina on Wednesday 3rd of July 2013 03:06:34 PM

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