Tired of my own self! - Al-Anon Family Group

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Tired of my own self!

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

There is a difference between addiction and chemical dependency. Addiction - as one scientist says who studies the effect of alcohol and drugs on the brain - is a good person making bad choices. They can stop with no help. A person with a chemical dependency can't stop on their own and need help. The most effective help that scientists have discovered thus far is "talk therapy" as done in 12 step programs. Eating too much ice cream and carbs might be a bad habit that one can stop and change with exercise and self-denial. Mis-firing brain cells that are trying to regulate themselves with particular drugs (chemical dependency) is not a bad habit. It's a medical problem that scientists are still trying to find more out about and trying to come up with ways to help patients with these chemical dependencies. Until they do, 12-step programs are shown to be the most effective manner of helping to arrest but not cure the disease.

I didn't want my children around their DAd either as the disease progressed, but they wanted to be around him. Nobody can stop that from happening as much as we would like to stop it. My son was with his Dad when he died and I can tell you the last place I wanted him to go was to his Dad's home. There was no stopping him as a teen and no court in the land that could prevent it.

Al-Anon is here for you when and if you ever decide you need or want the help it provides for those of us who have loved ones being destroyed by this disease. Much support as you decide what is best for you and your life.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 27th of June 2013 04:25:26 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 27th of June 2013 04:28:57 PM

Bettina · ~*Service Worker*~

After being married to the alcoholic for many years 27, one boundary I made was never ask me if it was alright for him
to drink or not. Or go with the guys, etc. I wanted no part of being in on his decision to drink or not. I detached myself from all drinking. Him asking you if he can stop for a few drinks is asking your permission to drink and put on your shoulders, so he can feel blameless.

I agree I use to be conflicted about how much of it was a disease and how much is free will.

After 30 years of seeing the X A go down hill and coming close to death 3 times, this last time he is still hooked up to
life support and every organ in his body is failing and he is fighting for his life. I went to the ICU and I asked him??
Do you think you will live??? and he emphatically responded with his head, YES, YES!!!

My thinking to myself has been , of course this is a disease, would somebody who was normal and in his right mind do that to themselves and still want to live.

After 30 years of hard drinking and knowing this man. I know now that no matter what I said or what I did. Would not have made one bit of difference. That detaching with compassion is the best way to go I find. It saves a lot of wear and tear on the heart.

If we are focusing on our own growth and expanding our own life, we dont have time to focus on theirs. And if it isnt too our liking we have choices.

Hugs,

Bettina

-- Edited by Bettina on Thursday 27th of June 2013 06:10:18 PM

-- Edited by Bettina on Thursday 27th of June 2013 06:10:47 PM

tiredof_it · Member

Do you ever get the feeling of just being tired of yourself? Like how come we (as wives/girlfriends) can't just 'allow' our drinking s/o to just go out and do his thing?

We have a lot of children in the house and clearly a couple of years ago, after almost 20 years of marriage I had had it. My entire family are alcoholics as well as my in-laws by in large. I am just DONE with alcohol.

It came to the point (with a little space and distance with my ah) that I WAS taking care of myself, making plans for a separation and/or divorce and he panicked and really, really was changing, trying to make it better and quit and it has been this way ever since. Lately it's been taking a drink when family comes over and (ALWAYS) brings whiskey with them. We had a really long talk about some other problems in our marriage and he disclosed how he was with a co worker and his co-worker's wife called and how my ah was jealous of that wife just blowing off the fact her husband was at a bar and how I would go bisserk if I knew. I tried to 'loosen up' on my end but it always winds up the same. Give an inch and he takes a mile. He called yesterday after work and asked if I would mind if he stopped in for a few drinks with co-workers and I bravely said 'sure' and tried to be like the other 'normal wives.' Well FIVE HOURS LATER he comes home - intoxicated (not falling down drunk) but passes out in bed snoring away.

I was SO angry at MYSELF for NOT being able to just let it go. I would love to just live by myself with my kids than constantly placing restrictions or obsessing about booze or sex (lack thereof) etc. but I don't have the courage or even think it's a wise idea. One would think by mid 40's I would know more about life.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Dear Tired

You are not alone. Alanon was founded by the wife of the founder AA after he became sober. She realized that she was filled with anger, resentment and fear deep within and felt she needed a program of recovery of her own. Alanon is that program . We accept that alcoholism is a progressive, fatal disease over which we are powerless.. In order for members of the family to function in a healthy manner we need to change our focus and attitudes

f I found that when I began to attend meetings that I had more time for my life and my responsibilities. I truly stopped taking care of those that could care for themselves and began to use alanon tools in all my affairs.

It does not matter if you stay in the marriage of leave, you must still deal with the deep down feelings that have been formed as a result of living with this disease.

If you really are too busy to attend face to face meetings I urge you to check out the on line meetings here and try to attend,.

You are worth it

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

I was SO angry at MYSELF for NOT being able to just let it go. I would love to just live by myself with my kids than constantly placing restrictions or obsessing about booze or sex (lack thereof) etc. but I don't have the courage or even think it's a wise idea. One would think by mid 40's I would know more about life.

Ohh I remember my X A's...it was hard to accept that it was useless expecting a decent life with them, THEN deciding to do what was best for me...oh yea, I hung on b/c my "comfort zone" was staying in dysfunctional relationships...THEN comes recovery and gradual belief in me, that I can take care of me, alone if I need to, life is so much better with either strong boundaries or , yes, if needed, total separation.....

I just figure life is too short to mess w/a losing situation...Life is hard enough...I have come to the point where I will no longer "purchase" pain as there is enough, already, just by living life, out to get at me as it is....I can't be immune to pain, but I can refuse to purchase it....

my ex used to do the same thing..."be good" for a while, until mama lioness calms down then he would gradually step it up.....I got tired of it and left...it was hard but I just have had it

and yea, I was down on me for allowing it, but really, it is a trained behaviour (putting up w/abuse and neglect/abandonment) and so I just need to UN-train me...Doing that....In Recovery

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

I would love to just live by myself with my kids than constantly placing restrictions or obsessing about booze or sex (lack thereof) etc. but I don't have the courage or even think it's a wise idea.
-----------------------------------------------------

When we have boundaries, when we detach, we do it for us. The idea of placing restrictions on another human being is not detaching. We can't control what anyone else does. But when we are harsh with ourselves for feeling a certain way and then obsessing, that's why we go to AlAnon. We can't just walk away because all of this comes from a place deep inside ourselves and we have to access that and acknowledge it before we can change anything in ourselves. Be gentle with yourself.

You can be happy even if he is actively in his disease. You know when he goes to the bar that he is not going to abstain. So, knowing what the truth is, continue to do whatever you would otherwise do. Enjoy your kids. Enjoy your house. Enjoy your life..... without him because he is at the bar. It really confuses them when you are happy no matter what they are doing.

tiredof_it · Member

I don't think I can do a full fledged Al-Anon program because I absolutely do NOT believe we or they are powerless over alcohol. They DO have choices just as I do. I am trying to lose weight, so I make myself walk 2-3 miles a day and AVOID the strong craving for that ice cream in the freezer. Food is an addiction, cigarettes are an addiction, heck anything can be an addiction - saying someone is powerless and it will progress and is fatal is just wrong. I'm not being harsh, I just don't buy it.

As far as just letting him go do whatever and taking care of me and enjoying my kids - this cannot be done because now my kids are being raised with a father figure as I had (who, by the way died in an alcohol related car accident when I was 18). I won't have my children grow up an "adult child of an alcoholic" and all the baggage that goes along with that and I never understood that part of the 'healing process.' Why would any responsible mother WANT their children around an alcoholic loved one all the time?

Mandy123 · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Tired))),

I can sure relate to your post. Alcoholism is a disease of extremes. My "A" sure never did anything halfway.

I set boundaries with my "A" about his drinking/drugging, but they weren't for him to control they were for me. There were times I would leave with the kids when he was drinking/drugging. I would not allow it in our home when I was there. I didn't want it in my home at all, but when I wasn't there I learned that I wasn't able to control that. I would ask him to leave if he started drinking while we were there. I learned to keep my mouth shut about it because talking to him was useless while he was drinking/drugging.

Taking care of you and the children is all you can do.

I learend that no was a complete sentence, I leaned on my Ala-Family and really worked the program.

I also learned that because of my "A"'s disease he usually had the best of intentions when he made promises to me, but then his disease kicked in and ruled him. He may have meant to stop by the neighbors for a beer or two, but he can't just stop there.

Keep coming back.

Yours in recovery,

Mandy

tiredof_it · Member

Betty, I appreciate what you are trying to do and say - remember I have been around AA/Al-Anon for a long, long time (sister in rehab, father an alcoholic, brother an alcoholic, mother a drug addict) not to mention I have spent 15 years in the medical field. If you want to use the disease argument, then you have to use that for all addictions, food, cigarettes, gaming, etc. God never takes away our free will and the alcoholics uses his free will to pick up that drink in the first place when he/she already KNOWS there is a problem. No one forces the drink down their throat.

I am probably in the wrong forum. I really wanted to vent and not feel alone, but I cannot and do not accept that these poor, poor A's can do as they want and I have to work my life around their "disease"

I truly apologize for hurting anyone's feelings here, but there is a better life and absolutely nothing wrong with setting boundaries and limits for yourself and children - like saying no booze in the house! That's my two cents and everything I have learned from being around physicians for 15 years. I've even had psych's tell me the alcoholic has choices - their is NO invisible force driving them to have four, five and six drinks. Just don't pick up the glass. Period.

Mandy, thank you :)

tiredof_it · Member

" A person with a chemical dependency can't stop on their own and need help. "

I've known people who are alcoholics who have stopped completely and never picked up another drink again and I don't buy the "dry drunk" theory either.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Tired, you say "I was SO angry at MYSELF for NOT being able to just let it go." I think we have all been in that space.

Here is how I view the "disease" model of alcoholism. Of course they have the decision-making power to just stop. Clearly they have that or they wouldn't be able to show up at an AA meeting. But first of all alcohol affects some people differently than others. My A said that the first time he tasted alcohol, he knew he'd become addicted. And sure enough, he did. It had such a powerful calming and happiness-inducing effect on him. For me, it has no such effect. It just makes me feel dizzy and nauseated. So there's obviously something different in the way alcohol affects us.

Second, alcohol distorts one's judgment. So when they drink, their minds get addled. And they didn't learn a lot of coping skills to begin with. Then they start coping by drugging themselves with alcohol. The alcohol distorts their judgment and they lose perspective. And it all spirals downhill. They don't know how to get out of the spiral. They don't have the skills to cope with life in other ways; their brains are affected by the alcohol and not thinking straight; and the alcohol produces cravings. Sure they know how to stop. But they don't know how to stay stopped. They think they should be able to do it by willpower. But that's like saying "Here's a skateboard. Even though you've never been on a skateboard before, I want you to step on it and go a half mile down the street -- down that hill too -- on it without falling or stepping off once. Just do it by willpower."

The thing is that willpower isn't enough. You need tools -- skills and practice and support. Without those things, you fall off and damage yourself. And part of the problem of alcoholism is the denial -- the fact that one's perspective is so distorted that you think, "I ought to be able to do this by myself. But I bet I don't really have a problem anyway. So I'll just go it alone." Maybe that has worked for a few people. (I think most would question whether those were alcoholics. By definition, alcoholics are the people who haven't been able to stop by their own willpower.) But there are millions it hasn't worked for.

We ourselves get caught up in the chaos and addiction (addiction to our addicts) in just the same way. We say ""I was SO angry at MYSELF for NOT being able to just let it go." That's just what alcoholics say about the alcohol. That's why a program of our own recovery -- the skills, practice and support -- can help us. They can't quit by mere willpower any more than we can quit our obsession with them by our own willpower. If we say ""I ought to be able to do this by myself. But I bet I don't really have a problem anyway. So I'll just go it alone," we're just succumbing to the same denial that's behind their behavior.

But really -- who cares what the model is? We don't have to put up with their shenanigans, just as we don't have to stay miserable ourselves. As long as the recovery program works, let's give ourselves recovery.

orchidlover · ~*Service Worker*~

I can relate a great deal. For most of my life I have lived submerged in alcoholics and an alcoholic environment. Lately I have come to give myself a break about having grown up in such toxic circumstances. What am I a saint or something. Of course I am going to be very very flawed growing up in such a negative environment.

I think there is always a if only, what if, how come. Alcoholic's are really adept at manipulating and making one feel inadequate. That is how their disease lives on . They are great at causing division, chaos and upset that is what helps their disease. When I lived with an alcoholic I lived with the constant refrain of its you its you its you all day every day. Then I left him. I can certainly tell you in so many settings that many people would like to pull the its you number on me. I no longer take it on. I spent my entire life trying to fit in a mold where I could be what everyone else wanted me to be.

I beat myself to a pulp many a time. For me the boundary issue is so crucial. Being able to say No when you are living around an alcoholic is almost impossible. But then a small voice comes up from somewhere and you learn to say it softly. Sometimes that is with detachment, sometimes it is with being able to go and tell others how you feel. Most of all it comes from having a sense of self. My self is really damaged from growing up as I did but its mine and doesn't belong to the alcoholic. You are right on in being able to wonder about your situation. Awareness is the first step.

Maresie.

MeTwo2 · ~*Service Worker*~

The problem is that I'm Always tired of myself when I'm tired.. I'm Tired of being powerless somedays, I'm tired of doing the same things over and over and expecting new results, I'm tired of obsessing, making excuses (for others and for myself) etc.. when it happens, and I'm tired of feeling empty because I gave so much of myself away through the years or because my needs were never truly met because I looked in all the wrong and unavailable places, as opposed to looking in higher power or myself.. Pretty sure we all have times like these ..

When it comes to his being jealous of the other gf/wife blowing it off, I'm wondering what's His part. The truth may not necessarily be that you are being more rigid and need to lighten up. The truth may be yeah but why are you uncomfortable with it. What does He do when he's out. Maybe the other is more truthful with his partner, calls in more, or maybe she is using too. There could be a million things. Just thoughts to think of .. Not providing reasons for blame. I'm just seeing how much I would believe something through the years feeling guilty or shameful as if there were something Wrong with Me and thinking it was truth. It wasn't truth. There were Reasons I felt the way I did. That was the Truth.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

I understand you can't accept that some people are compulsive alcoholics or that there is such a thing as a dry drunk. And you have a right to your beliefs and your opinions. I know I certainly don't want to try to change your mind or insist you see it my way/our way. Thank you for sharing them with us. If you've been in Al-Anon, then you know one of our slogans is to take what you like and leave the rest. I'm glad you joined us for awhile and hope some of what we've shared with you might have offered you some comfort, hope and/or new insights. It sounds like you've been through a lot. I hope you get some relief soon. Much encouragement and support as you make the choices that you believe are best for you in relationship to your family.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

With al anons help people do come to realize they cannot control anyone but themselves. I detached from my AH. I loved him so very much I could not face not gleaning all I could out of the time I had left with him before he was totally gone.

He did all he always did. Just drinking. I never ever saw him drink. I held hands with him, kissed him, adored him drunk or whatever. If he got violent or rude etc. I changed me. I had my own bedroom, door out, tv in there. Had some snacks and stuff. If he got too much I would just say I am going to lay down or read or whatever. No big deal.

I was able to get a few more months. We cannot control them anyway. I am NOT his mother or keeper, I am or was his best friend, accepted him as is. I am not sorry I did.

If I had kids it would be different.

We learn to let go and allow ourselves to do what we want, not allowing their disease to affect us.

Glad you posted! debilyn

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.