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I'm new to all of this and have just located a local meeting that I will be going to on Sunday. I have been dating a guy, in a long distance relationship (200 miles), for a year and a half now. It took awhile because of the infrequency of our seeing each other for me to realize that he is an alcoholic. We have known each other since we were children and our families are good friends but I lost touch with him for 15 years and we reconnected and well, sparks flew. I started noticing that at the end of a night out, he acted different, either very melancholy and depressed about a tragic event in his life or was belligerent. He drank during the day and I slowly noticed his behavior shift. After several hurtful and confusing conversations (arguments), I learned to just shut up and the next day he wouldn't remember anyway. But I don' want to live like that. So, I finally brought up the subject very directly and that didn't go well, it wasn't until I broke up with him after a very very bad weekend that involved my teenager seeing him belligerent that he would do more than say "I'll work on it" and then get mad at me for brining it up when it was clear "working on it" was not something he was going to do. I could go on and on but my bottom line question here is...am I handling this right? He keeps telling me that I don't act like I love him anymore and that I don't give him credit when he does something good...like saying nice things to me and such. I have explained to him that I am just pulling back until I see if his promise to not drink will come to fruition. He doesn't seem to understand that and is very mean and gets very hurt about it. Such as saying to me things like "I might as well just not say what I was going to because you don't register when I say nice things, I have to repeat them 10 or 12 times but you can remember one bad thing". Which of course is not true. I just responded to this with saying "Well, then I guess you shouldn't say it because I don't even want to hear something nice 11 times". I wasn't going to argue was what it boiled down to. Is this normal for an alcoholic? He trivializes my concerns about him drinking and just can't believe that the only thing preventing me from being the way I "used" to be is his drinking because he is so nice and good the rest of the time. Actually, he doesn't even believe me when I tell him he is different when he drinks. In the next breath he says he knows he needs to quit. At first he promised not to drink around me and I told him that was not it, that if we were going to have a future where we coexisted in the same house, I needed to know that he could quit drinking...because if he was just not going to drink around me eventually that would be all of the time not just every other weekend. Also, that he needed to do it for him and not for me. He then came up with he wouldn't drink around me or during the week and keep it to a six pack on the weekends. Now, that sounded okay. He was with me for three days. The night he arrived here he had had two beers because he saw a fatal wreck on the freeway and it sent him into a downward spiral because his wife was murdered three years ago by being run over by a man she was having an affair with. So, I was a bad night full of him being depressed and also breaking his promise not to drink or have been drinking around me. There always seems to be a "trigger"...either it's a party or a bbq or he was stressed. The rest of the time he stayed sober and we had a great time. He got back home and did not keep his promise of not drinking during the week...drinking from 4-6 beers a day. So, he asked me not to give up on him but I don't know what to do. He goes back and forth and I don't know what to believe or do. Quite frankly, I'm tired of dealing with it and also tired of feeling guilty for pulling away and making him feel bad at a time when his self esteem was just starting to return (after the incident with his late wife). Sorry for rambling. I hope that made sense...somehow. FYI...his late wife who he was married to for eight years was an alcoholic, drinking about two to three bottles of wine daily. I can drink socially or not at all, I don't drink even socially, if I'm with him. He is 52 years old and I am 47. This is my first experience with being in a relationship with an alcoholic.
This is from the Big Book of alcoholics anonymous. Your BF describes an alcoholic to a tee. It is insanity and you are trying to argue logic, reason, and get someone to quit being something that is so far progressed that it will take a MASSIVE surrender to a new way of life. It took me going to AA daily for quite some time and still ongoing to finally achieve lasting sobriety. Otherwise, I ALWAYS went back to my default of drinking, trying to make excuses for it, manipulating others, down playing it, and blaming other people for all my problems. It took A LOT to surrender, go to meetings faithfully and do as I was told. Prior to that, my promises or any effort to get me to "control my drinking" was totally wasted. Totally. I would only give lip service and that's all I was capable of. I was also very emotionally needy and emotionally immature and that is exactly how you are describing this guy in that everything is a trigger for him and then he starts whining about his needs not being met and trying to guilt you when he acts out. No accountability or ability to see his actions for what they are and how they affect you. So here is the quote from the big book that I think will explain alcoholism to you in a way that will help you see what you are dealing with. It's a horrible and insidious disease that takes a complete psychic shift/lifestyle change to arrest. Most folks do not do what is necessary to stay sober.
More About Alcoholism
MOST OF US have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death. We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed. We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervalsusually briefwere inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better. We are like men who have lost their legs; they never grow new ones. Neither does there appear to be any kind of treatment which will make alcoholics of our kind like other men. We have tried every imaginable remedy. In some instances there has been brief recovery, followed always by a still worse relapse. Physicians who are familiar with alcoholism agree there is no such thing a making a normal drinker out of an alcoholic. Science may one day accomplish this, but it hasnt done so yet.
I hope your first meeting is helpful. Thanks for sharing all that is on your mind. I think it is very helpful to get it out and to be heard/read.
I guarantee you that if u commit to going to meetings and also reading the message boards, you will get your answers on how to take care of your needs within this situation & about what is and is not your responsibility. It is so common for many of us to take the A's responses to our stating our needs. On Above all we did not cause the disease, we cannot control it and we cannot cure it--in Al-anon we all learn what we CAN do differently that supports recovery and doesn't support the disease... All my best to you always!!!
PS-This page is a great reminder for me:
Taken from Al-anon daily reader Courage to Change page 74
"One beautiful day, a man sat down under a tree, not noticing it was full of pigeons. Shortly, the pigeons did what pigeons do best. The man shouted at the pigeons as he stormed away, resenting the pigeons as well as the offending material. But then he realized that the pigeons were merely doing what pigeons do, just because they're pigeons and not because he was there. The man learned to check the trees for pigeons before sitting down."
"Active alcoholics are people who drink. They don't drink because of you or me, but because they are alcoholics. No matter what I do, I will not change this fact, not with guilt, shouting, begging, distracting, hiding money or bottles or keys, lying, threatening, or reasoning. I didn't cause alcoholism. I can't control it. And I can't cure it."
"I can continue to struggle and lose. Or I can accept that I am powerless over alcohol and alcoholism and let Al-Anon help me to redirect the energy I've spent on fighting this disease into recovering from its effects."
"Today's Reminder: It's not easy to watch someone I love continue to drink, but I can do nothing to stop them. If I see how unmanageable my life has become, I can admit that I am powerless over this disease. Then I can really begin to make my life better."
"'It stands to reason that a change in us will be a force for good that will help the entire family.'" (This last sentence if from the book "How Can I Help My Children?")
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Wishing all the best on your recovery journey, Luv
You are already tired of dealing with this. He doesn't seem to be "working on it" at all. Can you live with this relationship the way it is right now? Can you accept him completely as he is? Because he's not going to change unless/until he decides to make a change for himself by not drinking. Pay attention to his actions, not his words. What you can do is take care of yourself. It's great that you're going to a meeting. I hope it will be helpful for you. I also hope you'll read other posts here, there is so much to learn. Keep coming back!
Thank you all for your replies. This is very overwhelming and not knowing where to start or well, y'all know, you were here once. I've almost gone cross eyed from reading in the forums but it's been so helpful. Thanks for listening too.
Welcome to MIP, and I echo the other comments. He is behaving as alcoholics behave - a classic example....
The only thing I would add is encourage you to read up on the subject. The book that helped me the most was "Getting Them Sober", volume one, written by Toby Rice Drews. That book literally saved my sanity.
Take care
Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Thank you. This is the second time I have had that book recommended to me so I am about to check online and order it. Even if I can't handle him in a romantic relationship, with the family connection, I am sure we will still be in touch. I know I can't fix him but would like to see him realize he needs to get help.
Just be ready for him not wanting to see he needs help. You might have to give up on that too. He could say "you are right. I need help" all the way up to the end of the relationships and then not do anything. If he wanted help now, what's stopping him? What do you have to tell him that will make it that much more obvious? Nothing. You already stated it's a problem. We often make the mistake of thinking if we really hammer it home, they will get the picture. That typically just makes them lie, make excuses, and get belligerent. When I was ready for AA - I just went. It barely took a suggestion where as all the other times...I had a ton of reasons why I couldn't go, didn't need to go, and wouldn't go....I paid lip service and nobody could get me to the point of being ready until something just sunk in (it happened to be when I crashed my car drunk and was looking at losing my career, relationship...livelihood...on top of feeling spiritually empty and wanting to die). He's not there yet. Don't waste energy and time trying to get him there. It will drag you down with him.
One more question if y'all don't mind. I can't wait until Sunday for this meeting...this is so overwhelming, the information, I mean. He doesn't drink when he is with me, that is roughly about four days in a row, twice a month.This fourth of July weekend to me is something that is going to test that as we are going to a friends house where there will be beer and champagne. Only about 30% of the people that go to this function drink and none to excess, I won't be drinking at all. He says he won't be either. I stopped mentioning his drinking and am just focusing on his actions now. He has been drinking all this week still...six beers a day but says he knows our relationship depends on him not and once he stops on the 4th of July weekend, he will continue to stay stopped. I don't have my hopes set on this. My question is...since he is obviously an alcoholic, can he quit on his own? Does him not drinking for three or four days in a row indicate anything that I should or could be hopeful about?
-- Edited by eekamouse on Friday 28th of June 2013 05:32:42 PM
I AM GLAD THAT YOU HAVE A MEETING TO ATTEND AND ARE SEEKING HELP. ALCOHOLICS HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO STOP ON THEIR OWN. THIS IS OFTEN REFERRED TO AS ( WHITE KNUCKLING ) IT . WITHOUT A PROGRAM OF RECOVERY, ALTHOUGH THE DRINKING STOPS, THE ATTITUDES AND BEHAVIORS REMAIN THE SAME.
IN ADDITION MOST CAN STOP FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. IT IS THE STAYING STOPPED THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
WITH PROGRAM AND HP ONE DAY AT A TIME, LIFE CHANGES AND MOVES FORWARD.
I noticed in one of your posts that you are counting his drinks. 1 drink for an alcoholic is 1 too many. It doesn't matter how many he drinks after the 1st one. The 1st one is the critical one. To an alcoholic - any amount of alcohol is poison in their system. Even alcohol in mouthwash is dangerous for them like 1 bee sting can kill or result in a very serious medical emergency in a person allergic to bees without an antidote. Of course, alcohol can work a little slower than a bee sting depending on how far the disease has progressed, but it is a dangerous poison to an alcoholic all the same. Glad you're going to a meeting. Keep coming back here, too. There is no point in telling him all this because he isn't going to believe you right now, but the more information you have about the disease the more empowered you will be.
My AW was able to quit for a month when I first expressed my concern to her. After that, one of her favorite things to say when I would complain further about her drinking was "I don't have a problem, I showed you I can quit for a month, right?" normally within a half hour of that I would drag her into bed from the floor where she had fallen out of her chair after passing out.
Good luck with this, I know it is overwhelming, believe me we all know.
I hope your first meeting is helpful. Thanks for sharing all that is on your mind. I think it is very helpful to get it out and to be heard/read.